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View Poll Results: who won?
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Tie 3 1.86%
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:42 PM  
Trivers Trivers is offline
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who won the presidential debate?

What say yea?
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:31 PM   #331
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In today's GOP, anything to the left of the Tea Party fascist plutocracy they are peddling is "moderate."
Spoken like a true fanatic.

These are the people teaching (indoctrinating) our kids, folks.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:31 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
In today's GOP, anything to the left of the Tea Party fascist plutocracy they are peddling is "moderate."


Kotter's BS buzzwords.......just

I'm very thankful you don't teach my kid.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:32 PM   #333
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Well, now I see how the media will try to spin this in Obama's favor. Clearly to the vast majority that watched, Romney won the debate. Yet, flipping through the channels today, I checked out CNN and MSNBC. Both of their "reporting" included comments from viewers. MSNBC showed posts on their facebook page from viewers. They showed 5 or 6 "Obama one because blah blah blah" to 1 "Romney squeeked out a win." CNN, the same thing. Except this time they used viewer reaction through videos. Of course they, like MSNBC, showed almost all Obama supporters saying he won and that Romney is a big fat horrible liar and meanie because he wants to kill Big Bird. Reporting at it's finest.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:34 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by Saul Badguy View Post
Spoken like a true fanatic.

These are the people teaching (indoctrinating) our kids, folks.

Read, and learn. This guy understands, precisely, what is going on...

Prof. Sheldon Wolin (Princeton) calls it inverted totalitarianism. That is, we vote to maintain a corporate oligarchy.....having an illusion of democracy....with the only real option being voting to maintain government that no longer functions on behalf of the people. A system. that requires no overt repression as long as the illusion of democracy is maintained.

His book, "Democracy, Inc." is an interesting though upsetting read.
Synopsis:

"Democracy is struggling in America--by now this statement is almost cliché. But what if the country is no longer a democracy at all? In Democracy Incorporated, Sheldon Wolin considers the unthinkable: has America unwittingly morphed into a new and strange kind of political hybrid, one where economic and state powers are conjoined and virtually unbridled? Can the nation check its descent into what the author terms "inverted totalitarianism"?

Wolin portrays a country where citizens are politically uninterested and submissive--and where elites are eager to keep them that way. At best the nation has become a "managed democracy" where the public is shepherded, not sovereign. At worst it is a place where corporate power no longer answers to state controls.

Wolin makes clear that today's America is in no way morally or politically comparable to totalitarian states like Nazi Germany, yet he warns that unchecked economic power risks verging on total power and has its own unnerving pathologies. Wolin examines the myths and mythmaking that justify today's politics, the quest for an ever-expanding economy, and the perverse attractions of an endless war on terror. He argues passionately that democracy's best hope lies in citizens themselves learning anew to exercise power at the local level."

http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8606.html
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:37 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
Read, and learn. This guy understands, precisely, what is going on...

Prof. Sheldon Wolin (Princeton) calls it inverted totalitarianism. That is, we vote to maintain a corporate oligarchy.....having an illusion of democracy....with the only real option being voting to maintain government that no longer functions on behalf of the people. A system. that requires no overt repression as long as the illusion of democracy is maintained.

His book, "Democracy, Inc." is an interesting though upsetting read.
Synopsis:

"Democracy is struggling in America--by now this statement is almost cliché. But what if the country is no longer a democracy at all? In Democracy Incorporated, Sheldon Wolin considers the unthinkable: has America unwittingly morphed into a new and strange kind of political hybrid, one where economic and state powers are conjoined and virtually unbridled? Can the nation check its descent into what the author terms "inverted totalitarianism"?

Wolin portrays a country where citizens are politically uninterested and submissive--and where elites are eager to keep them that way. At best the nation has become a "managed democracy" where the public is shepherded, not sovereign. At worst it is a place where corporate power no longer answers to state controls.

Wolin makes clear that today's America is in no way morally or politically comparable to totalitarian states like Nazi Germany, yet he warns that unchecked economic power risks verging on total power and has its own unnerving pathologies. Wolin examines the myths and mythmaking that justify today's politics, the quest for an ever-expanding economy, and the perverse attractions of an endless war on terror. He argues passionately that democracy's best hope lies in citizens themselves learning anew to exercise power at the local level."

http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8606.html
I know it to be true because everyone in my echo chamber agrees.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:38 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by Saul Badguy View Post
I know it to be true because everyone in my echo chamber agrees.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:38 PM   #337
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It's an honest freaking question, because Romney certainly isn't going to even out the deficit through his tax cuts (yes, he will cut taxes) or his renewed focus on military spending. So again, how exactly is he going to balance our budget?
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:42 PM   #338
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I know it to be true because everyone in my echo chamber agrees.
Yeah I suppose, because RWNJs are known for their original thoughts and original opinions...as individual thinkers free from the influence of group think and echo chambers, or even talk radio! Yep, that's I've discovered about them! /sarcasm meter ALERT!/
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:43 PM   #339
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Yeah I suppose, because RWNJs are known for their original thoughts and original opinions...as individual thinkers free from the influence of group think and echo chambers, or even talk radio! Yep, that's I've discovered about them! /sarcasm meter ALERT!/
Are you a communist?
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:45 PM   #340
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Are you a communist?
Of course not, Mr. McCarthy. But don't let that deter you from your witch hunt...Joe.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:47 PM   #341
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Of course not, Mr. McCarthy. But don't let that deter you from your witch hunt...Joe.
No, it was actually a serious question. You seem to have some rather harsh opinions on privately and publicly-owned businesses
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:58 PM   #342
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No, it was actually a serious question. You seem to have some rather harsh opinions on privately and publicly-owned businesses
Private enterprise and the free market are essential to our national prosperity; however, so is reasonable restraints on corporate and elitist exploitation and greed.

According to most conservative ideologues these days, it seems... any attempt by government aimed at regulation, accountability measures, or safeguards against the excesses and abuses of unfettered and completely "free market" capitalism are, well....by definition, communism. Communism, I say!

Of course, to such people... everyone who doesn't share their view of unrestrained and unchecked "free enterprise" is a communist. With such a black-and-white view of economics....hell, I suppose 85% of the country must be communist!
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:58 PM   #343
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You're making the argument that Romney is a principled conservative with consistent views.
I'm arguing that he's a pragmatic conservative. He has never been as far right extreme conservative as your side has tried to paint him and he didn't move to the center last night. He was pragmatic conservative during the primaries and he was pragmatic conservative last night.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:58 PM   #344
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Trickle-down is Gospel to conservatives; too bad it's far from the whole story. There are times when trickle-down seemed to work, like in the 80s.

However, one needs only to look at record corporate profits during the last couple years, combined with dramatic increases in income for those in the top 2 or 3 percent...juxtaposed with declining real income for nearly all working and middle class folks, and stagnant job growth to understand the real truth of trickle-down. So much for reinvestment and expansions, right?
Trickle down government is not the god damn answer~
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:02 PM   #345
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Trickle down government is not the god damn answer~
Agreed. But neither is "trickle-down economics, double-down!!!"....which is precisely what Romney seems to be proposing.

"W's gambit got us into this, so let's double-down....yeah, that's the ticket!"
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