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Old 10-02-2012, 11:44 AM  
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US Border Patrol Agent Shot, Killed In Arizona

Murdered on our territory by foreign hostiles. Re-deploy our military troops to the border now. Federal government says border security is under their authority? Then act.

U.S. Border Patrol agent shot, killed in Arizona near Mexico border

by Cassondra Strande and D.S. Woodfill - Oct. 2, 2012 10:18 AM
The Republic | azcentral.com

One Border Patrol agent was killed and another seriously injured in a shooting early Tuesday near the U.S.-Mexico border, according to authorities.

Three agents were on foot at about 1:30 a.m. about 7 miles east of Bisbee responding to a ground sensor that had triggered, said Carol Capas, a Cochise County Sheriff's Office spokesman.


Capas said the agents reported over the radio that they had come under fire as they were following a trail into the area. Earlier reports from authorities stated erroneously that they were on horseback.

When deputies arrived, one of the agents had died and another suffered serious but non-life threatening injuries, she said.

No suspects were in custody, and Capas she could provide any details on the shooters including how many there were, or what they were doing in the area.

The injured agent sustained non-life-threatening wounds and was flown to a hospital, according to Crystal Amarillas, a spokeswoman for the Tucson Sector Border Patrol.

George McCubbin, president of the National Border Patrol Council, a work union representing border agents called the National Border Patrol Council, said the injured agent had undergone surgery at the University of Arizona Medical Center and is doing well.

Border patrol has not identified the agents involved.

The shooting is being investigated by the FBI and the Cochise County Sheriff's Office. The deceased agent left behind a wife and two children, he said.

U.S. Rep. Ron Barber, who represents the eighth district, released a statement saying "This morning I spoke to Border Patrol leaders for the Tucson Sector to offer my condolences to the men and women of the Border Patrol. My thoughts and prayers are with the family, friends and colleagues of the agent who today made the ultimate sacrifice for his country."

"This is a powerful reminder that our borders are far from secure and that every day the courageous men and women of the Border Patrol put their lives on the line while protecting the citizens of Arizona and the United States," the statement said. "We need to redouble our efforts to secure the border and ensure the safety of Border Patrol agents."

Beth Kempshall, state director of the High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area, a counter-narcotics entity, said the shootout occurred in "a traditional smuggling corridor for the Sinaloa Cartel."

Marc Denney, a Cochise County Sheriff's commander over the Border Alliance Group Task Force, said the shooting occurred in a known smuggling area. "Basically ambushed," he added. "It's rough terrain. Rocky and very hilly. A lot of low-lying brush."

Denney said law enforcement were swarming the area this morning, looking for suspects. "There's hope that we'll be able to track them," he said. "But there is enough of a gap that they may have had time to go south" across border into Mexico.

All three agents were assigned to the Brian Terry Station, Amarillas said. The station is located in Naco and was named in September in honor of a slain border patrol agent.

Terry, 40, was the last U.S. Border Patrol Agent killed on duty. He was shot in a shootout in December 2010 about 13 miles north of the border at Nogales.

Two guns found at the scene were bought by a member of a ring that was being monitored in the government's gun-smuggling investigation known as Operation Fast and Furious.

Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee that has led Congress' investigation of Fast and Furious, said the shooting is "a tragic reminder of the dangers the brave men and women who guard our borders face every day... Authorities must investigate the full circumstances of this shooting. I urge everyone to think of the families of these agents and avoid drawing conclusions before relevant facts are known."

The tragedy prompted immediate calls for increased enforcement from border security hawks.

"Our thoughts and prayers are with the agents' families at this difficult time," said Rep. Jeff Flake, R-Ariz.. "Violence along Arizona's border cannot be tolerated by the federal government any longer. The federal government must commit the necessary resources to secure the border, because that's simply not happening right now."

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...#ixzz28AGlrvRx
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:13 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by qabbaan View Post
Because of the electorate's changing demographics, we aren't allowed to say that anything coming from Mexico is problematic or do anything about the wide open border.
Nails on...both parties are nothing less than cowards on this issue~
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:13 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Just out of curiosity, but how are the cartels not seen as terrorists? Why have we not gone after them as hard as we are capable of? It's not like Mexico wouldn't welcome it.

If they're such a problem, why don't we send our military into Mexico and **** their shit up?

Just seems odd to me, is all. We can wage war on a country thousands of miles away, yet can't handle the far more important problem right here in our backyard.

The conspiracy theorist is me says that the Cartels are more powerful than the Mexican government, and Obama probably has them on speed dial.
The US Govt can't stop cartels. Wage war all you want and you will get the same result as you have now. History proves that. Americans desire for intoxicants in all forms is a problem that can never be solved.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:19 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by RubberSponge View Post
The US Govt can't stop cartels. Wage war all you want and you will get the same result as you have now. History proves that. Americans desire for intoxicants in all forms is a problem that can never be solved.
We have the ability to handle this problem is we approached it with the same zeal as we do terrorism. If we made military strikes against these cartels they would run for cover and not even think about starting shit on American soil. They would still produce and sell drugs but their would be no violence on our turf. That is if we treated it like a "war"
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:33 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
Nails on...both parties are nothing less than cowards on this issue~
The southern border is one of the primary factors turning this country into a socialist welfare state. That immediately rules out 50% of the pols wanting to do anything about it. The rest are increasingly outvoted year after year, as the historical America fades
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:41 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
We have the ability to handle this problem is we approached it with the same zeal as we do terrorism. If we made military strikes against these cartels they would run for cover and not even think about starting shit on American soil. They would still produce and sell drugs but their would be no violence on our turf. That is if we treated it like a "war"
Good luck with that. We did covert operations with US soldiers in Colombia during the 80's and 90's. We are still there in many ways and cocaine is more potent, more prevalent and cheaper than it was then. The majority of coca production just moved. Until you can cover every square inch of the globe militarily, you're just swatting at flies.

Again, history proves that.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:45 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by qabbaan View Post
Because of the electorate's changing demographics, we aren't allowed to say that anything coming from Mexico is problematic or do anything about the wide open border.
Bullshit.

The Mexicans here, nor the Mexicans there, have any sympathy for the cartels. The Cartels have Mexicans running scared. They're murdering Mexicans here in the states and those across the border. The majority of Mexicans aren't going to stand in the way of eradicating the Cartels. They're not going to stand in the way of the U.S stepping up and doing something about it.

Hell, if we could somehow create security over there, you gotta wonder if that would help our own illegal immigration problem.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:49 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by RubberSponge View Post
The US Govt can't stop cartels. Wage war all you want and you will get the same result as you have now. History proves that. Americans desire for intoxicants in all forms is a problem that can never be solved.
I agree that prohibition doesn't work, but our military can put a pretty damn severe dent in the cartels if they actually put forth the effort. We may never stop the bleeding, but we can certainly slow it down and get it under moderate control.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:51 PM   #98
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So are we going to invade the UK because most of the high grade marijuana seeds are shipped from that country into our own? Are we going to invade the Netherlands since 90% of the worlds ecstasy is produced there?
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:53 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by RubberSponge View Post
So are we going to invade the UK because most of the high grade marijuana seeds are shipped from that country into our own? Are we going to invade the Netherlands since 90% of the worlds ecstasy is produced there?
Do either of those countries have violence spilling over into the states?
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:55 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
I agree that prohibition doesn't work, but our military can put a pretty damn severe dent in the cartels if they actually put forth the effort. We may never stop the bleeding, but we can certainly slow it down and get it under moderate control.
You not even slowing it down. You're actually slowing yourself down. Before you know, manufacturing has changed locations, shipments have changed logistically. And you don't know where it is coming from again. The desire is still there, it always will be. It's an unwinnable war that we have been fighting our entire lives. Think about that for a minute. The drug war has been going on our entire lives and we haven't made any gains with the choosen course. Why continue?

Most Law Enforcement even admit that they are usually behind the game in every aspect.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:56 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Do either of those countries have violence spilling over into the states?
Are you saying people don't kill people for high grade marijuana? No ecstasy deaths from violence?
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:03 PM   #102
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You not even slowing it down. You're actually slowing yourself down. Before you know, manufacturing has changed locations, shipments have changed logistically. And you don't know where it is coming from again. The desire is still there, it always will be. It's an unwinnable war that we have been fighting our entire lives. Think about that for a minute. The drug war has been going on our entire lives and we haven't made any gains with the choosen course. Why continue?

Most Law Enforcement even admit that they are usually behind the game in every aspect.
I agree. It needs to be a two-pronged approach.

But the states were able to significantly reduce the amount of cocaine flowing in from Columbia during the 70's.....when they tried. They could also deal a significant blow to the Mexican Marijuana trade by eliminating MJ prohibition and controlling it themselves, as well putting immense military pressure on the Cartels.

It has to start somewhere. Right now, it seems like all we do is try to stop it at the border. That's never going to work. We're being reactionary when we need to be far more proactive.

It's seeped and infected our borders. A few months ago me and my wife were on Facebook and came across pictures of local gang members in our community posing for photos with AK's and other guns, admittedly given to them by the cartels across the border.

Right now, Logan Heights gang, just a few minutes from Downtown San Diego, is sitting there being funded by Mexican Cartels.

How much longer are the Feds going to sit there with their thumbs up their ass?
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:05 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by RubberSponge View Post
Are you saying people don't kill people for high grade marijuana? No ecstasy deaths from violence?
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post

It's seeped and infected our borders. A few months ago me and my wife were on Facebook and came across pictures of local gang members in our community posing for photos with AK's and other guns, admittedly given to them by the cartels across the border.

Right now, Logan Heights gang, just a few minutes from Downtown San Diego, is sitting there being funded by Mexican Cartels.
.
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:15 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
I agree. It needs to be a two-pronged approach.

But the states were able to significantly reduce the amount of cocaine flowing in from Columbia during the 70's.....when they tried. They could also deal a significant blow to the Mexican Marijuana trade by eliminating MJ prohibition and controlling it themselves, as well putting immense military pressure on the Cartels.

It has to start somewhere. Right now, it seems like all we do is try to stop it at the border. That's never going to work. We're being reactionary when we need to be far more proactive.

It's seeped and infected our boarders. A few months ago me and my wife were on Facebook and came across pictures of local gang members in our community posing for photos with AK's and other guns, admittedly given to them by the cartels across the border.

Right now, Logan Heights gang, just a few minutes from Downtown San Diego, is sitting there being funded by Mexican Cartels.

How much longer are the Feds going to sit there with their thumbs up their ass?
The amount of cocaine in the 70's was nothing compared to what is out there now.

We fight drugs not just on our border. We fight them in other countries, we fight them in our own streets, schools, in every community out there. Simply saying we fight them at the border is a injustice to every law enforcement officer that is out there doing exactly what you say he/she isn't.

Of course there are gangs in this country affiliated with mexican drug cartels. No surprise. Mexican cartels have infiltrated every city in the US.
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:22 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by RubberSponge View Post

We fight drugs not just on our border. We fight them in other countries, we fight them in our own streets, schools, in every community out there. Simply saying we fight them at the border is a injustice to every law enforcement officer that is out there doing exactly what you say he/she isn't.
And it's all reactionary. It's an attempt to fight the infection instead of killing the pig and not letting the infection spread to begin with.

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Of course there are gangs in this country affiliated with mexican drug cartels. No surprise. Mexican cartels have infiltrated every city in the US.
uhmmmm....yeah, that was kinda my original point. So why are they not treated as Terrorists and why do we not pursue them the way we do in the ME?

You can sit there and say, "Oh Military force will never work"...well.....what we're doing now sure as hell isn't working either.

We're so hung up on trying to fix the ME....the country we should be trying to fix is Mexico.

And Mexico actually WANTS to be fixed.
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