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Old 12-31-2011, 02:52 PM  
alnorth alnorth is online now
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2012 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread

2012 Slogan: Our Time

A better, more accurate 2012 Slogan: It is Finally Next Year
(from Great Expectations)

An alternative slogan if you don't like that one: Someone has to win this crappy division
(from alnorth)

With the beginning of a new year, it is time for the 2012 version of the Royals Repository Thread. We've got Hosmer, we've got a 2011-dominating Gordon, we've got Moose, we've got hopefully a killer bullpen, we've got a stereotypical slow slugging DH, we've got easily one of the best defensive shortstops in the AL, we've got a promising catcher in Salvador Perez. Hell, we've got offense and promising prospects galore.

We do not have starting pitching.

Oh yeah, we've also got this:



Get ready for, (as of January 2012 anyway), one of the most confusing puzzles of a baseball season in recent Royals history. Will they suck? Maybe, I don't know. Will we be given a year of 0.500 baseball? Possibly, I don't know. Will they win the division and go to the playoffs for the first time in 27 years? For the first time in a long time, it could happen, I don't know. 92 losses, 92 wins, or anything in between would not surprise a lot of us.

Everything goes here except Gameday threads and really big news. If a giant story breaks, the Royals achieve some awesome milestone, or we sign/lose a highly significant player/coach/mascot/whatever, then it might also deserve its own thread. This being Chiefs Planet, please do not clutter the board with new threads about trivial Royals news or you will only annoy those who come here for just Chiefs football. If you aren't sure and its not a Gameday thread, it goes here.

What sort of stuff often goes here? SPchief explained it well, so I'll just copy that:

Quote:
If you locate something of interest.. ANYTHING.. deals on apparel, best ways in/out of the stadium, giveaways, great stories from this season or from seasons gone by, rumors, trades, anything.... feel free to post it here.

Last edited by alnorth; 06-23-2012 at 10:54 PM..
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:29 PM   #8056
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This is the make-or-break offseason for Dayton Moore.

If the moves he makes don't work, and the team doesn't miraculously win behind them, he's gone, I think.

I'll have to check out Rany's work.

Honestly, if Dayton Moore gets fired, a big part of it will be for stubborn loyalty to two such shitheads as Jeff Francoeur and Luke Hochevar, he deserves whatever he gets.

I've said it before... but mistakes by a GM are fine and to be expected. Moore's problem is that he doesn't cut ties with them soon enough. This season is a perfect opportunity to cut bait with Hochevar. Non-tender him. Bring him back cheap and send him to Omaha, or let someone else make him their problem.

With Francoeur, honestly, the feeling I got from the whole Seitzer firing is that Francoeur's struggles were a big part of the decision (along with Hosmer and Moustakas). Which is a disaster. Jeff Francoeur's struggles should have no bearing on any coach's evaluation.

I also loved Frenchy getting outed by Seitzer as a bad/whining teammate (about his RBI opportunities).
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:36 PM   #8057
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I know we say it a lot, but there are a ton of fans out there like me – if they don’t do something significant this offseason, I won’t be able to find a single glimmer that would let me be halfway optimistic next season or in the foreseeable future. In fact, the way Glass has treated this fan-base would leave me resenting any positive feelings I have towards the Royals. Once that happens, it would take a miracle to get me back as a fan. I’d probably become that guy who puts big black Xs on all of my Royals gear and converts all my (formerly positive) energy into hatred.

Maybe I’ll be a Cardinals fan – my dad lives there, and it would be nice to support a team that gives a **** about their fans for once.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:36 PM
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:45 PM   #8058
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From mlbtraderumors...

Offseason Outlook: Kansas City Royals

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [October 10 at 8:53am CST]

The Royals will pursue pitching in the hopes that a deeper starting staff will result in the club's first winning record in a decade.

Guaranteed Contracts
• Alex Gordon, LF: $31.5MM through 2015
• Billy Butler, DH: $18MM through 2014
• Alcides Escobar, SS: $9.5MM through 2015
• Jeff Francoeur, RF: $6.75MM through 2013
• Salvador Perez, C: $6.25MM through 2016
• Bruce Chen, SP: $4.5MM through 2013
• Noel Arguelles, LHP: $2.76MM through 2014

Arbitration Eligible Players (estimated salaries)
• Luke Hochevar, SP: $4.4MM (third time eligible, non-tender candidate)
• Felipe Paulino, SP: $2.7MM (third time eligible)
• Brayan Pena, C: $1.1MM (third time eligible, non-tender candidate)
• Chris Getz, IF: $1.2MM (second time eligible)
• Blake Wood, RP: $600K (first time eligible)

Contract Options
• Joakim Soria, RP: $8MM club option with a $750K buyout

Free Agents
• Jeremy Guthrie

The Royals haven't had an elite starter since they traded Zack Greinke to Milwaukee two winters ago. This offseason GM Dayton Moore will seek rotation help as Greinke hits free agency for the first time in his career. While the Royals aren't expected to be the high bidder for their former ace, they appear ready to spend on starting pitching.

Unless they obtain rotation help, it'll be hard for the Royals to win more games than they lose. Royals starters completed 890 innings this past season, the third-lowest total in MLB. The team's starters combined for an ERA of 5.01 (26th in MLB) while ranking toward the bottom of the league in strikeout rate (6.5 K/9, 25th in MLB), walk rate (3.2 BB/9, 24th in MLB) and ground ball rate (41.7%, 30th in MLB).

To be fair, Felipe Paulino and Danny Duffy missed most of the season with injuries and Jonathan Sanchez was far less effective than expected. But injuries limit just about every team, and general managers must create depth beyond the top five names on the pre-season depth chart. This winter the Royals could look to re-sign Jeremy Guthrie, who pitched well in his return to the American League, posting a 3.16 ERA in 14 starts. No one's going to mistake him for a top-of-the-rotation starter, yet there's value in players like Guthrie, as long as the financial commitment remains modest -- say a short-term deal for no more than $7MM annually.

Luke Hochevar pitched himself into possible non-tender territory, posting an ERA of 5.73. No organization likes to give up on a former first overall pick, so Hochevar could be tendered a contract this offseason. He'd earn $4MM-plus if he's offered arbitration.

Regardless of what happens with Guthrie and Hochevar, the Royals have Bruce Chen, Luis Mendoza, Paulino and Duffy in place for 2013. It'd be encouraging to see the team pursue a top-of-the-rotation option to supplement this group, and owner David Glass has indicated he's willing to spend to improve his team's rotation.

Greinke's name will no doubt surface, since the longtime Royals starter will be available in free agency. Other free agents, such as Kyle Lohse and Anibal Sanchez appear to intrigue Moore at a time that the rotation lacks anything resembling an ace. The free agent market will probably include familiar names such as Dan Haren and Jake Peavy and pitchers like Josh Johnson, Jason Vargas and Justin Masterson could be available in trades. David Price could be a tantalizing trade target, even though the Rays would inevitably ask for an elite young position player -- Wil Myers perhaps? -- in return for the 27-year-old who might be the top left-hander in baseball.

Conversely, the Royals' bullpen was a force in 2012. Not only did Kansas City's relievers pitch more innings than every team except the convention-defying Rockies, the group ranked sixth in ERA (3.17) and led MLB bullpens in wins above replacement (7.3 WAR, according to FanGraphs). This hard-throwing group (93.8 mph average fastball, third in MLB) is generally young and controllable, which means most of these arms will return. Still, every team should pursue relief help over the course of the offseason, since injuries inevitably occur and some players regress. Moore has also traded relievers such as Jonathan Broxton for prospects in the past, so surplus relief wouldn't necessarily be a problem.

Improbably, the Royals' bullpen pitched this well without a single inning from the team's most prominent reliever. Right-hander Joakim Soria missed the season after undergoing Tommy John surgery and his status with the team now looks uncertain. Soria's contract includes an $8MM option and while he has said he would like to stay in Kansas City, $8MM would be too much for a small market team with bullpen depth to spend on a recovering reliever. Perhaps the sides can agree to a one-year contract with incentives and a low-base salary.

Though the Royals out-scored just two American League teams in 2012, their offense doesn't need as many changes as the pitching staff. In fact, the team's lineup seems to have breakout potential. Injuries limited Lorenzo Cain and Salvador Perez this past year, and both could play a full season in 2013. More production can also be expected from 22-year-old first baseman Eric Hosmer, who struggled at the plate despite lofty pre-season expectations. Plus, Myers, Baseball America's 2012 Minor League Player of the Year, could break camp with the club as its everyday right fielder (Jeff Francoeur could then be released or become a bench option for Ned Yost to use against lefties).

The pieces are in place at every position except one. Royals second basemen combined for a .256/.289/.359 batting line last year. Five players played the position ten times or more and four of those infielders -- Irving Falu, Chris Getz, Johnny Giavotella and Tony Abreu -- remain on the Royals' 40-man roster. Despite the array of internal options, I believe it'd make sense for the Royals to consider pursuing second base help this winter. The free agent market looks thin at second, but Moore could pursue a trade for a player such as Skip Schumaker, who's now being used off of the bench in St. Louis. The versatile Schumaker continues to get on base (.339 OBP this year), though he's a platoon bat who should be shielded from left-handed pitching. Trading for Schumaker would create depth without blocking 2010 first rounder Christian Colon.

The Royals' class of arbitration eligible players looks relatively modest this year, even if the club retains Hochevar. Getz, Blake Wood, and Brayan Pena project to have affordable salaries in 2013, so they're expected to return in supporting roles (Wood missed the 2012 season to undergo Tommy John surgery). Should Moore continue to pursue extensions for his young players, Mike Moustakas could be next in line. The pre-arbitration eligible third baseman hit 20 homers in 2012, his first full season.

The Royals have enough above-average players in place to surprise people in 2013. But major improvements don't happen by accident. One recent example, the Nationals, didn't contend until they made meaningful upgrades to their rotation. It's hard to imagine that Kansas City's path to contention will be much different.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:41 AM   #8059
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See "For Want of a Pitcher: Here We Go Again" - http://www.ranyontheroyals.com/

1. ?
2. Dan Haren
3. Jeremy Gutherie
4. Luis Mendoza
5. Bruce Chen
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:53 AM   #8060
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I like reading info from MLB trade rumors. But to suggest that we will offer an incentive laden contract to Hochevar is beyond depressing.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:05 AM   #8061
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Originally Posted by theelusiveeightrop View Post
I like reading info from MLB trade rumors. But to suggest that we will offer an incentive laden contract to Hochevar is beyond depressing.
Oh i have no doubt Hoch will be right back in the Royals starting rotation next year and the Royals will miss out on alot of the names being thrown around.

Same as it ever was.......
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:08 AM   #8062
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Hoch returning sucks ... However, if it has to happen then I hope he bumps Chen out of the rotation. A Mendoza, Chen, Hoch combination as 3/5th's the rotation won't get us past 75 wins ...
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:42 AM   #8063
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Quote:
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Hoch returning sucks ... However, if it has to happen then I hope he bumps Chen out of the rotation. A Mendoza, Chen, Hoch combination as 3/5th's the rotation won't get us past 75 wins ...
Chen sucks to, but hes slightly more consistent than Hoch so hes tolerable as a #5 starter.
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Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning:

Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down.

One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:08 AM   #8064
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that and he (Chen) has a guaranteed contract next year anyway.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:16 AM   #8065
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Chen is definitely the lesser of two evils with Hochevar, at this point.

I have been saying all season that Yost has too slow a hook on Chen, and it kills his effectiveness. I decided to finally put my money where my mouth was and look at the stats on this.

What I found confirms what my eyes/memory were saying: Yost doesn't pull Chen quickly enough. Once Bruce gets to the 5th inning and beyond, he should be yanked at the first sign of trouble.

I found that in 13 games this season, Chen got into trouble in the final inning he pitched and was allowed to pitch through it. His ERA in his final inning this season was a shocking 15.25 (versus 3.59 for the rest of the game). Only twice this season did he run into trouble in the last inning and pitch through it with no damage.

To be fair, Chen had four appearances in which he was knocked out before the fifth inning. Subtracting those appearances, you still end up with 9 appearances in which Chen got drilled while being left in too long, with an ERA of 13.28 in those appearances.

The point? With a shorter leash, Chen is a much more consistent and reliable starter. Once he hits the fifth inning, he should be removed at the first sign of trouble.

Next season, if handled like that (which you can do if he's your No. 5 starter), I think you'll see a much more effective Bruce Chen.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:17 AM   #8066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson8 View Post
See "For Want of a Pitcher: Here We Go Again" - http://www.ranyontheroyals.com/

1. ?
2. Dan Haren
3. Jeremy Gutherie
4. Luis Mendoza
5. Bruce Chen
Rany's jumping on my bandwagon.

Sign Anibal Sanchez
Trade for Dan Haren
Re-sign Guthrie
Mendoa
Chen

dump Luke Hochevar

Start Odorizzi at AAA and see if he's as effective in Round 2 there as he was in round 2 at AA.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:19 AM   #8067
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Chen is definitely the lesser of two evils with Hochevar, at this point.

I have been saying all season that Yost has too slow a hook on Chen, and it kills his effectiveness. I decided to finally put my money where my mouth was and look at the stats on this.

What I found confirms what my eyes/memory were saying: Yost doesn't pull Chen quickly enough. Once Bruce gets to the 5th inning and beyond, he should be yanked at the first sign of trouble.

I found that in 13 games this season, Chen got into trouble in the final inning he pitched and was allowed to pitch through it. His ERA in his final inning this season was a shocking 15.25 (versus 3.59 for the rest of the game). Only twice this season did he run into trouble in the last inning and pitch through it with no damage.

To be fair, Chen had four appearances in which he was knocked out before the fifth inning. Subtracting those appearances, you still end up with 9 appearances in which Chen got drilled while being left in too long, with an ERA of 13.28 in those appearances.

The point? With a shorter leash, Chen is a much more consistent and reliable starter. Once he hits the fifth inning, he should be removed at the first sign of trouble.

Next season, if handled like that (which you can do if he's your No. 5 starter), I think you'll see a much more effective Bruce Chen.
Just about any pitcher does better if they only have to go through the lineup twice. It kills your bullpen, though.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:25 AM   #8068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Chen is definitely the lesser of two evils with Hochevar, at this point.

I have been saying all season that Yost has too slow a hook on Chen, and it kills his effectiveness. I decided to finally put my money where my mouth was and look at the stats on this.

What I found confirms what my eyes/memory were saying: Yost doesn't pull Chen quickly enough. Once Bruce gets to the 5th inning and beyond, he should be yanked at the first sign of trouble.

I found that in 13 games this season, Chen got into trouble in the final inning he pitched and was allowed to pitch through it. His ERA in his final inning this season was a shocking 15.25 (versus 3.59 for the rest of the game). Only twice this season did he run into trouble in the last inning and pitch through it with no damage.

To be fair, Chen had four appearances in which he was knocked out before the fifth inning. Subtracting those appearances, you still end up with 9 appearances in which Chen got drilled while being left in too long, with an ERA of 13.28 in those appearances.

The point? With a shorter leash, Chen is a much more consistent and reliable starter. Once he hits the fifth inning, he should be removed at the first sign of trouble.

Next season, if handled like that (which you can do if he's your No. 5 starter), I think you'll see a much more effective Bruce Chen.
Yea, I doubt you find too many 5th starters around the league with decent ERA’s or are workhorses who eat a lot of innings. Theres just not that much quality pitching depth to go around to fill all 30 teams.
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Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning:

Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down.

One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
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Deberg_1990 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Deberg_1990 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Deberg_1990 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Deberg_1990 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Deberg_1990 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Deberg_1990 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Deberg_1990 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Deberg_1990 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Deberg_1990 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Deberg_1990 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.Deberg_1990 has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:40 AM   #8069
Great Expectations Great Expectations is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Rany's jumping on my bandwagon.

Sign Anibal Sanchez
Trade for Dan Haren
Re-sign Guthrie
Mendoa
Chen

dump Luke Hochevar

Start Odorizzi at AAA and see if he's as effective in Round 2 there as he was in round 2 at AA.
We could all get behind that rotation. Then take a look at Duffy and Paulino in the second half for a big push while Odorizzi is waiting in the wings.

I'd actually prefer:
Sanchez
Haren
Guthrie
Mendoza
Odorizzi
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:44 AM   #8070
duncan_idaho duncan_idaho is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 View Post
Yea, I doubt you find too many 5th starters around the league with decent ERA’s or are workhorses who eat a lot of innings. Theres just not that much quality pitching depth to go around to fill all 30 teams.
Right. Comes down to Chen being fine/usable as long as you know what he is and handle him accordingly.

He had a similar number of starts (10) in which he breezed through his last inning with no problem, and five more in which he was yanked at the first sign of trouble (team escaped with no damage). He averaged just over 6 1/3 innings in those instances.

In the starts where he was left in "too long," 4 were starts where he ran into trouble in the 7th and, 8 were in the 6th, and one was in the 5th.

I'm not trying to say he's a stud or anything. Just that he's fine IF you monitor him carefully and hook him quickly once he runs into the first sign of trouble. About 1/3 of the time, he's good for 5 innings. About 1/2 the time, he was good for 6 innings.

Better management - and being able to slide him to the 4 or 5 spot, where he doesn't need to eat as many innings - would maximize Chen's effectiveness and minimize the times he hurts the team.

To me, it's similar to giving a lefthanded hitter who is hopeless against lefites a day off against them. You have the data that tells you the guy is likely to be a negative factor with the bat that day, and respond to it.
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