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Old 10-23-2012, 12:23 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
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"We can't kill ourselves out of this mess."

Was it just me, or did Mitt Romney say something brilliant and prescient?

****ing applause for the man. Easily his wisest line of the entire election season.

Not even kidding.

Mitt Romney, talking about the war on terror, just rejected every ounce of neoconservativism, drone-reliant warfare of civilian casualties to kill battle-aged men in countries full of brown people.

This is something foreign policy doves have been saying since the turn of the millenia. To defeat terrorism, it is not enough to simply murder a requisite number of bad guys.

You've got to exercise a foreign policy that doesn't unnecessarily incite hatred in foreign countries, and turn down the heat on all the rhetoric and much of the unnecessary, counterproductive behavior that feeds recruitment for these foreign countries.

I think this was the best line of the debate. Bar none. And it's something that's been long overdue out of the mouth of a national-level Republican.

I think Obama won the debate and all that jazz, but credit where it's due. Romney found a winner of a line and an idea. I hope it finds a way to spread.
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:28 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
You're a monumental moron if you think neoconservatives believe or ever believed that we can kill our way to victory in the GWoT.
ok then, if you don't kill em, how do you deal with terrorists?
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:47 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
ok then, if you don't kill em, how do you deal with terrorists?
Personally I think it has to be a multi prong approach:

1) Wage an info war basically to expose the Hamas charter and the corruption / systematic abuse of Palestinians BY Hamas.

2) Show by example that Israel and the USA and the UN are above violence, and make every possible attempt toward a peaceful negotiation and peaceful conflict resolutions.

but

3) Kill terrorists with no mercy. Point out that the use of human shields and hiding in civillian clothes is the CAUSE of many civillian deaths, but do not let THEIR violation of the Geneva convention prevent us from going after top level targets.

4) Work with the groups who represent Palestinians (like Fatah etc..) and try to demonstrate to the Palestinian people that we can and will work with peaceful groups, but CANNOT tolerate groups like Hamas who have no intention of peace whatsoever.


The reality is that it really isn't OUR choice. There is one side who is choosing war, and trying to justify it. One side keeps electing a goverment of Fascist Nazis...it would be like of we elected 300-400 KKK members in our 535 member congress. Basically for every non Hamas member of Palestinian government there are 2 Hamas members...and Hamas outright BOYCOTTED the 2012 election and will not abide by it.

There is simply no way to 'deal' with this type of government on any rational level other than trying to make sure the rockets fired from their side harm as few people as possible.

Again, it isn't OUR choice on how to deal with terrorists.....it is the Palestinian people's. God Bless them, may they make the right choice....

But sadly, I suspect things will get much worse before they get better.....
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:49 PM   #93
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:10 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I didn't say it was "just" cynical politics, I just said that they don't actually want to obliterate anything.
Well obviously you are 100% completely wrong since it is in their Charter plain as day...

Quote:
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it
and

Quote:
There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time...
source:http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp


These are THEIR words, are you trying to suggest you know their intentions better than THEY do?
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:12 PM   #95
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Direckshun,

Are you saying we should not believe Hamas, and not take them at their word in their own very charter?
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:13 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Literature View Post
Whenever I read Pawnmower's posts, I think of Will Farrell saying "He's an angry elf!" in Elf!.
I don't mind ad-hominem style attacks, they just get boring...plus I think this topic deserves better.
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:16 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
ok then, if you don't kill em, how do you deal with terrorists?
I didn't say you don't kill anyone. You kill some while at the same time working to discredit their ideology and win the hearts and minds of the populations in which they currently find refuge.
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:51 PM   #98
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Wait what? Did someone steal patteeu's identity?
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:20 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I didn't say you don't kill anyone. You kill some while at the same time working to discredit their ideology and win the hearts and minds of the populations in which they currently find refuge.
seems like the arab spring has discredited their ideology just fine, by establishing freely elected moderate islamic governments they have made aq less relevant in egypt and libya...

and the libyans, some 30,000 of them, demonstrated in support of america after the murders and marched to an ansar-what-the-****-ever-they-call-themselves headquarters and ran the militia out...

i think the terrorists did a good job of discrediting themselves by killing our ambassador, at least as far as public opinion in libya goes...

other than a few extremist groups libyans love the u.s. and are grateful for our help in ousting kagoofy...

the terrorists are finding out that they might not be able to take refuge in libya any more...

and they're finding little refuge in egypt...

the arab spring, for all its difficulties and uncertainty is turning out to be a good thing when it comes to terrorists and their ability to find refuge and operate with impunity...
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:04 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
You're a monumental moron if you think neoconservatives believe or ever believed that we can kill our way to victory in the GWoT.
He doesn't care if it's true. He's just wanting to paint a picture of conservatives for the purposes of a negative generalization.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:57 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
seems like the arab spring has discredited their ideology just fine, by establishing freely elected moderate islamic governments they have made aq less relevant in egypt and libya...

and the libyans, some 30,000 of them, demonstrated in support of america after the murders and marched to an ansar-what-the-****-ever-they-call-themselves headquarters and ran the militia out...

i think the terrorists did a good job of discrediting themselves by killing our ambassador, at least as far as public opinion in libya goes...

other than a few extremist groups libyans love the u.s. and are grateful for our help in ousting kagoofy...

the terrorists are finding out that they might not be able to take refuge in libya any more...

and they're finding little refuge in egypt...

the arab spring, for all its difficulties and uncertainty is turning out to be a good thing when it comes to terrorists and their ability to find refuge and operate with impunity...
That's a pretty rosy take. I hope you're right.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:14 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
seems like the arab spring has discredited their ideology just fine, by establishing freely elected moderate islamic governments they have made aq less relevant in egypt and libya...

and the libyans, some 30,000 of them, demonstrated in support of america after the murders and marched to an ansar-what-the-****-ever-they-call-themselves headquarters and ran the militia out...

i think the terrorists did a good job of discrediting themselves by killing our ambassador, at least as far as public opinion in libya goes...

other than a few extremist groups libyans love the u.s. and are grateful for our help in ousting kagoofy...

the terrorists are finding out that they might not be able to take refuge in libya any more...

and they're finding little refuge in egypt...

the arab spring, for all its difficulties and uncertainty is turning out to be a good thing when it comes to terrorists and their ability to find refuge and operate with impunity...
Moderates were elected?
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:20 AM   #103
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Because of the lies that we've already been told I'm not sure if this is true.
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and the libyans, some 30,000 of them, demonstrated in support of america after the murders and marched to an ansar-what-the-****-ever-they-call-themselves headquarters and ran the militia out...
Originally the it was a mob action that killed our peeps so this could be a lie as well.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:21 AM   #104
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
seems like the arab spring has discredited their ideology just fine, by establishing freely elected moderate islamic governments they have made aq less relevant in egypt and libya...

and the libyans, some 30,000 of them, demonstrated in support of america after the murders and marched to an ansar-what-the-****-ever-they-call-themselves headquarters and ran the militia out...

i think the terrorists did a good job of discrediting themselves by killing our ambassador, at least as far as public opinion in libya goes...

other than a few extremist groups libyans love the u.s. and are grateful for our help in ousting kagoofy...

the terrorists are finding out that they might not be able to take refuge in libya any more...

and they're finding little refuge in egypt...

the arab spring, for all its difficulties and uncertainty is turning out to be a good thing when it comes to terrorists and their ability to find refuge and operate with impunity...
Go bowe dropping some wisdom on the huddled masses.

Great post.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:32 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Go bowe dropping some wisdom on the huddled masses.

Great post.
Given your completely vacuous take on neoconservatism in the OP, your endorsement isn't very convincing.
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