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Old 10-23-2012, 12:23 AM  
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"We can't kill ourselves out of this mess."

Was it just me, or did Mitt Romney say something brilliant and prescient?

****ing applause for the man. Easily his wisest line of the entire election season.

Not even kidding.

Mitt Romney, talking about the war on terror, just rejected every ounce of neoconservativism, drone-reliant warfare of civilian casualties to kill battle-aged men in countries full of brown people.

This is something foreign policy doves have been saying since the turn of the millenia. To defeat terrorism, it is not enough to simply murder a requisite number of bad guys.

You've got to exercise a foreign policy that doesn't unnecessarily incite hatred in foreign countries, and turn down the heat on all the rhetoric and much of the unnecessary, counterproductive behavior that feeds recruitment for these foreign countries.

I think this was the best line of the debate. Bar none. And it's something that's been long overdue out of the mouth of a national-level Republican.

I think Obama won the debate and all that jazz, but credit where it's due. Romney found a winner of a line and an idea. I hope it finds a way to spread.
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:02 AM   #106
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I have never EVER heard a presidential nominee say that he has a problem with the wars and wants to find a way to end them.

He has to be our savior.
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:14 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Go bowe dropping some wisdom on the huddled masses.

Great post.
Except for the part where he forgot to mention that the 'moderates' who were elected actually PLAYED ZERO PART in the Arab Spring Revolution. The Muslem Brotherhood has hijacked what was a secular, progressive movement and not only taken over the Parliament but the Presidency as well. And he also forgot that the MB is the founding father of Hamas.....And you also seem to forget that non-Muslims are being imprisoned and worse in much higher frequencies now.

I think it is WAYYYYY to early to pat each other on the back and call the Muslim Brotherhood moderate.....Why don't we wait and see what their constitution looks like first?


SO far it doesn't look good, but UNLIKE YOU I will hold off on proclaiming it one way or another until the results are in...

http://www.carnegieendowment.org/201...al-battle/e4wv <-- Concerns over new constitution &
----> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...t-constitution




http://www.egyptindependent.com/news...-saber-resumes <-- athiest arrested

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middl...ends-ban-at-UN <-- blasphemy cases being prosecuted under new leaders in egypt

http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/56450.aspx <-- what few Copts remain in Egypt fight for equality in constitution

http://rt.com/news/hair-cut-egypt-girl-685/ <--- hair chopped off for not wearing headscarves in Public school


So, I wouldn't be celebrating too quickly....but it is up to the people of Egypt now. They must choose and live with the consequences. God help them.
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Last edited by Pawnmower; 10-24-2012 at 02:22 PM..
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:54 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Except for the part where he forgot to mention that the 'moderates' who were elected actually PLAYED ZERO PART in the Arab Spring Revolution. The Muslem Brotherhood has hijacked what was a secular, progressive movement and not only taken over the Parliament but the Presidency as well. And he also forgot that the MB is the founding father of Hamas.....And you also seem to forget that non-Muslims are being imprisoned and worse in much higher frequencies now.

I think it is WAYYYYY to early to pat each other on the back and call the Muslim Brotherhood moderate.....Why don't we wait and see what their constitution looks like first?


SO far it doesn't look good, but UNLIKE YOU I will hold off on proclaiming it one way or another until the results are in...

http://www.carnegieendowment.org/201...al-battle/e4wv <-- Concerns over new constitution &
----> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...t-constitution




http://www.egyptindependent.com/news...-saber-resumes <-- athiest arrested

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middl...ends-ban-at-UN <-- blasphemy cases being prosecuted under new leaders in egypt

http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/56450.aspx <-- what few Copts remain in Egypt fight for equality in constitution

http://rt.com/news/hair-cut-egypt-girl-685/ <--- hair chopped off for not wearing headscarves in Public school


So, I wouldn't be celebrating too quickly....but it is up to the people of Egypt now. They must choose and live with the consequences. God help them.
Mitt Romney = extreme

Muslim Brotherhood = moderate
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:52 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
These are THEIR words, are you trying to suggest you know their intentions better than THEY do?
Well, we all know politicians don't lie to present an image, do we?

You're voting for Romney, aren't you.
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:53 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
I think it is WAYYYYY to early to pat each other on the back and call the Muslim Brotherhood moderate.....Why don't we wait and see what their constitution looks like first?
That's fair.

For what it's worth, democratized populations tend to moderate over time.
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:54 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
Direckshun,

Are you saying we should not believe Hamas, and not take them at their word in their own very charter?
That's exactly what I'm saying.

It's posturing.
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:54 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Was it just me, or did Mitt Romney say something brilliant and prescient?

****ing applause for the man. Easily his wisest line of the entire election season.

Not even kidding.

Mitt Romney, talking about the war on terror, just rejected every ounce of neoconservativism, drone-reliant warfare of civilian casualties to kill battle-aged men in countries full of brown people.

This is something foreign policy doves have been saying since the turn of the millenia. To defeat terrorism, it is not enough to simply murder a requisite number of bad guys.

You've got to exercise a foreign policy that doesn't unnecessarily incite hatred in foreign countries, and turn down the heat on all the rhetoric and much of the unnecessary, counterproductive behavior that feeds recruitment for these foreign countries.

I think this was the best line of the debate. Bar none. And it's something that's been long overdue out of the mouth of a national-level Republican.

I think Obama won the debate and all that jazz, but credit where it's due. Romney found a winner of a line and an idea. I hope it finds a way to spread.
Mitt Romney went Ron Paul on us. Shouldn't this scare the Pats and Sauls of the world?
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:56 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
You're a monumental moron if you think neoconservatives believe or ever believed that we can kill our way to victory in the GWoT.
I'm a monumental moron, but not because of that.

Neoconservatives believe that killing terrorists is the #1 way to defeat terrorism. It's not. And often times, going to their home countries to kill them only intensifies terrorist recruitment.
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:56 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini View Post
Mitt Romney went Ron Paul on us. Shouldn't this scare the Pats and Sauls of the world?
As soon as Romney's elected, he's no doubt back to the policy that Pat and Saul prefer.
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:20 PM   #115
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That's a pretty rosy take. I hope you're right.
probably not, but i see some glimmer of hope for an acceptable result in the region overall...

it will take time, but there are some fundamental changes taking place in the me that offer an opportunity for self-government...

and the hard-liners have been defeated at the polls throughout north africa, an indication of the diminished role extremists will have in the political process of the arab spring...

there will be lots of what obama calls bumps in the road, but things are finally moving in the right direction in the arab world...
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:24 PM   #116
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Moderates were elected?
yes, by me standards the muslim brotherhood is moderate, compared to the salafis who are extreme fundamentalists...

the elected governments in north africa are all moderate in that sense...

moderate in a western sense of the word? probably not...
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:27 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Saul Too View Post
Mitt Romney = extreme

Muslim Brotherhood = moderate
i don't find the current version of moderate mitt to be extreme at all...

and the democrats' failure to paint him as such has clearly failed...
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:29 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
probably not, but i see some glimmer of hope for an acceptable result in the region overall...

it will take time, but there are some fundamental changes taking place in the me that offer an opportunity for self-government...

and the hard-liners have been defeated at the polls throughout north africa, an indication of the diminished role extremists will have in the political process of the arab spring...

there will be lots of what obama calls bumps in the road, but things are finally moving in the right direction in the arab world...
I'd feel better if those that attacked our embassy had been dragged through the streets, beheaded, and then hung on a bridge.

Once that happens I'd agree with your take things in the ME will get better.

The only ones that can eliminate the extremists are Muslims themselves. Instead we aren't granted access to the only one in custody. That gives the appearance Libya doesn't really give a shit and just wants our aid. That should make anyone cynical on progress being made in the ME and of our policies.
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:47 PM   #119
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I'd feel better if those that attacked our embassy had been dragged through the streets, beheaded, and then hung on a bridge.

Once that happens I'd agree with your take things in the ME will get better.

The only ones that can eliminate the extremists are Muslims themselves. Instead we aren't granted access to the only one in custody. That gives the appearance Libya doesn't really give a shit and just wants our aid. That should make anyone cynical on progress being made in the ME and of our policies.
i would have preferred dragging, beheading and hanging, although not necessarily in that order, but i view a crowd of tens of thousands demonstrating against the extremists and marching on their headquarters and forcing the militants to flee a very positive development...

i don't know why we aren't being granted access to the one in custody, but i'd guess that whatever official is making that decision does not reflect popular sentiment in libya as a whole...

so i think libya does very much give a shit and this snafu will be overcome soon enough and our investigation can be completed...

based on news reports i've seen on al jazeera it sure looks like the ansar whatever-the-****-they-call-themselves leader was on the scene and directing the attack...

it's strange that aj reporters could uncover this but the us gov cannot tell us what happened, still...
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:53 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
i would have preferred dragging, beheading and hanging, although not necessarily in that order, but i view a crowd of tens of thousands demonstrating against the extremists and marching on their headquarters and forcing the militants to flee a very positive development...

i don't know why we aren't being granted access to the one in custody, but i'd guess that whatever official is making that decision does not reflect popular sentiment in libya as a whole...

so i think libya does very much give a shit and this snafu will be overcome soon enough and our investigation can be completed...

based on news reports i've seen on al jazeera it sure looks like the ansar whatever-the-****-they-call-themselves leader was on the scene and directing the attack...

it's strange that aj reporters could uncover this but the us gov cannot tell us what happened, still...
Fair enough with the exception I'm not sure how much you can trust aj.
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