Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-04-2012, 10:08 PM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
Brainwashed
 
BigRedChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Swims with fishes
Casino cash: $16975
VARSITY
***Offical 2012 STL Cardinals World Champions Thread ***

St. Louis Cardinals: 7 reasons fans should feel good about 2012

Posted Wednesday, October 24, 2012, at 9:26 PM

St. Louis Cardinals fans are likely feeling deflated after the collapse that put an end to the team's dreams of a World Series repeat, but there is good reason to be excited.

With all of the odds against them, the Cardinals managed to push their 2012 season beyond any anticipated boundary.

Given all of the season's changes and the adversity the team had to fight through, the fact that they played in October at all was an anomaly in itself. On paper, it made sense for the Cardinals to be in the playoffs, but few saw them as a true threat.
As the season continued, even fans began to doubt as they watched the team seemingly crumble in June and July. When the Cardinals finally came to life in September they went 11-5 in the last 16 games of the season to lock up the second Wild Card position in its inaugural year.

That run, despite it's crushing end in Cincinnati in Game 7 of the National League Championship Series, lots of good came from the Cardinals' season and playoff run.
Following in no particular order are 10 reasons Cardinals fans have to be excited about the 2013 season.

Trevor Rosenthal
When rookie fireballer Trevor Rosenthal made his first trip to St. Louis, it was obvious almost instantly that he was something special.
Between his 100 mph fastball and the general inability for almost anyone to hit off of him, he became a huge part of the Cardinals playoff run.

He pitched in a total of 19 regular season games before the 22-year-old rookie from Lee's Summit, Mo. got his first taste of postseason baseball and he put on quite a show.
In 8.2 IP over seven postseason appearances, Rosenthal held opponents to only two hits and no runs.
It's possible that down the stretch he may have already earned his spot in the rotation for 2013.

Shelby Miller
The long-coveted fastball pitching prospect Shelby Miller also made his first trip to St. Louis in 2012 and put on a good show.
In 13.2 IP over six regular season games, Miller surrendered only two runs on nine hits. His postseason performance was more of the same with two runs on four hits in 3.2 IP.

Despite a dismal first half of the season in Memphis, Miller got himself together and still managed to make one major league start before the end of the season -- a very impressive start at that.
Against the Cincinnati Reds in the final game of the regular season, Miller posted 5.2 hitless innings. He gave up no runs and collected his first major league win.

Expect to see a lot more of Miller in St. Louis early in 2013.

Joe Kelly
When Joe Kelly made his major league debut on June 10, few could have guessed the importance he would play throughout the remainder of the 2012 season.
Kelly started 16 games for the Cardinals this season filling in for Jaime Garcia and Lance Lynn, but it was the postseason when he really came through for his teammates.

When starting pitchers struggled time and again in October, it was Kelly who came to their rescue.
In seven postseason appearances, Kelly threw 7.2 innings and surrendered only two runs on six hits. Kelly came through for the Cardinals from the bullpen.
There's a good chance that could be his home in the future.

Mike Matheny
When the Cardinals hired Mike Matheny to take over for Tony LaRussa, many question bringing in a manager with no experience to such a storied franchise.

He had a few hiccups and growing pains along the way, but for a rookie manager to get his team where Matheny did this year speaks volumes.
His players have a strong respect for Matheny and credit his positive style with being a driving force behind their 2012 success.
True, he didn't get them through the NLCS, but the team made it to an all or nothing Game 7. That's good experience for the players obviously, but also for Matheny. Not only did he learn a lot about managing in the media pressure cooker that is postseason baseball, he also got a taste of what it felt like to win as a manager.

NLCS loss means more drive to win
While the NLCS loss was a good lesson for a young manager, it's an even more important lesson for a young player.
The 2011 championship lit a fire under young players like Lance Lynn and Jon Jay. That fire helped drive them to extremely successful sophomore seasons.

What happened in 2012 will likely do the same for Rosenthal, Miller and Kelly. Their 2013 season may not be like Jay or Lynn's 2012, but now they've gotten a little taste of what it feels like to be a winner.

Both the excitement and the public humbling can be a great experience for any young player.

The run was without several key components
In a season riddled with injuries, none were as crucial as those late in the season.
The loss of Lance Berkman and Rafael Furcal significantly weakened the team's bench. Instead of having Pete Kozma, Allen Craig and Matt Carpenter to pinch hit, the team wound up having to use them in the lineup.

The loss of Jaime Garcia and Jake Westbrook also rocked the Cardinals. Instead of having Lynn and Westbrook also available from the bullpen, Lynn was pushed back into the rotation after a very successful NLDS bullpen stint.

Having gotten as deep into the playoffs as the Cardinals did in spite of the injuries is quite the accomplishment.

They did it without Pujols, LaRussa and Duncan
Few in the world of sports gave the Cardinals a fighting chance when Albert Pujols left the team to play on the west coast. Surely this team couldn't be as good as they were?

Few gave them a chance after longtime manager Tony LaRussa decided it was time to retire.
Few gave them a chance after pitching coach Dave Duncan left the team.
The Cardinals did it despite all of that. That's something any fan should be proud of.

No, they didn't hoist a trophy. There will be no parade or tickertape.
What there is, though, is hope for next year and that will come sooner than you may think.
After all, pitchers and catchers report to Spring Training in just four short months.

From a blog I was sent on twitter: http://www.dailystatesman.com/blogs/...es/entry/50051

Last edited by BigRedChief; 10-24-2012 at 09:57 PM..
Posts: 44,662
BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 09:44 AM   #2356
DJ's left nut DJ's left nut is offline
Gonna take a break for awhile.
 
DJ's left nut's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbia, Mo
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.city View Post
Go sign Elvis andrus, bring up Tavares to play cf get healthy and see what happens
You sound like a Yankees fan.

Andrus is under team control for 2 more years. If you want him, be prepared to trade Tavares to get him.
__________________
If you can't draw a crowd, draw dicks on the wall.

2013 Adopt-A-Chief: AJ Jenkins, WR #13
Posts: 19,563
DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 09:46 AM   #2357
jd1020 jd1020 is offline
MVP
 

Join Date: Nov 2010
Casino cash: $12409
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
You sound like a Yankees fan.

Andrus is under team control for 2 more years. If you want him, be prepared to trade Tavares to get him.
He didn't have to trade Tavares for Andrus in MLB 12 The Show.
Posts: 14,834
jd1020 wants to die in a aids tree fire.jd1020 wants to die in a aids tree fire.jd1020 wants to die in a aids tree fire.jd1020 wants to die in a aids tree fire.jd1020 wants to die in a aids tree fire.jd1020 wants to die in a aids tree fire.jd1020 wants to die in a aids tree fire.jd1020 wants to die in a aids tree fire.jd1020 wants to die in a aids tree fire.jd1020 wants to die in a aids tree fire.jd1020 wants to die in a aids tree fire.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 10:09 AM   #2358
O.city O.city is offline
Gonzo = Sexy Bitch
 
O.city's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Casino cash: $18057
My fault, was told he was a free agent this year and was too lazy to check
Posts: 31,375
O.city has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.O.city has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.O.city has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.O.city has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.O.city has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.O.city has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.O.city has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.O.city has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.O.city has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.O.city has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.O.city has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 10:55 AM   #2359
tooge tooge is offline
MVP
 
tooge's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Liberty, MO
Casino cash: $7985
Quote:
Originally Posted by frazod View Post
Actually they still get to keep the trophy from last year. As well as the other 10.
Except that 2012 Cardinals world champs thread is the title, not the 2011 cardinals world champions thread, and they AREN'T the 2012 world champions. Get it? I don't care if they have one, ten, or thirty. They aren't THIS years because they choked.
Posts: 8,595
tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 11:32 AM   #2360
Pasta Giant Meatball Pasta Giant Meatball is offline
Hungry?
 
Pasta Giant Meatball's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: U.S.A.
Casino cash: $15290
Piss off Our Timer
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count Zarth View Post
If this team goes 9-7 I'll eat a bug.
Posts: 32,630
Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 11:33 AM   #2361
Pasta Giant Meatball Pasta Giant Meatball is offline
Hungry?
 
Pasta Giant Meatball's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: U.S.A.
Casino cash: $15290
Giants have the mojo. Watch out Tiggers.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count Zarth View Post
If this team goes 9-7 I'll eat a bug.
Posts: 32,630
Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 11:54 AM   #2362
DJ's left nut DJ's left nut is offline
Gonna take a break for awhile.
 
DJ's left nut's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbia, Mo
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by PGM View Post
Giants have the mojo. Watch out Tiggers.
Mojo tends to buckle under the weight of 100 mph fastballs.

The Tiggers should detonate the Giants. The Giants still only have 2 decent SPs and that's not going to be enough against a lineup as deep as the Tigers, especially with the SP that Detroit brings to bear.

The Giants will beat the Tigers bullpen at least once, but they need to turn that trick at least twice to have a chance.

I say Detroit takes it in 5 by closing it out on their home turf.

Y'know, kinda like we should've done when we took the night off against Barry MFing Zito.

!@#$. Angry again. ****ing Cardinals.
__________________
If you can't draw a crowd, draw dicks on the wall.

2013 Adopt-A-Chief: AJ Jenkins, WR #13
Posts: 19,563
DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.DJ's left nut is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 11:55 AM   #2363
Frazod Frazod is offline
Banned
 
Frazod's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: my own personal pig hell
Casino cash: $5050
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooge View Post
Except that 2012 Cardinals world champs thread is the title, not the 2011 cardinals world champions thread, and they AREN'T the 2012 world champions. Get it? I don't care if they have one, ten, or thirty. They aren't THIS years because they choked.
Look, butthurt little royals fan, it's a 2012 thread. At the time it was created, they were, in fact, World Champions, and technically still are until somebody wins that fourth game this week.

Next year's thread won't say that.

Get it?
Posts: 91,125
Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 11:43 PM   #2364
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
Brainwashed
 
BigRedChief's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Swims with fishes
Casino cash: $16975
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooge View Post
Except that 2012 Cardinals world champs thread is the title, not the 2011 cardinals world champions thread, and they AREN'T the 2012 world champions. Get it? I don't care if they have one, ten, or thirty. They aren't THIS years because they choked.
We have always labled the "Official" thread the current year. We won the WS and were the reining World Champions all season.

Why you would come in here and complain about a title that's been up all season? No one in here considers the Royals a rival and most only wish good things would happen to the local team. Sounds like a lot of butt hurt to me.
__________________
The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination.

Albert Einstein
Posts: 44,662
BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 11:47 PM   #2365
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
Brainwashed
 
BigRedChief's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Swims with fishes
Casino cash: $16975
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooge View Post
can we change the name of the thread now please? It's the Official Cardinals Choke away a 3 games to 1 lead thread and/or the Giants rule thread. Thank you.
We will just have to console ourselfs with 3 trips to the World series in 7 years with 2 World Championships.

How do you console yourself after another losing season? Or because it happens every year, it doesn't bother you anymore.
__________________
The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination.

Albert Einstein
Posts: 44,662
BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 12:41 PM   #2366
VAChief VAChief is offline
Comfortably Numb
 

Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Virginia
Casino cash: $5372
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
You sound like a Yankees fan.

Andrus is under team control for 2 more years. If you want him, be prepared to trade Tavares to get him.
I would trade Shelby to get him. Texas kid who got some good exposure at the end of the year here. I could see that happening. Texas is going to lose Elvis in 2 years, their can't miss prospect at short is ready now if needed...sounds like win win to me. We still have Rosenthal, Wacha, Seigrist, and Martinez who have power arms that could be ready for starter roles just as quickly as Shelby.
Posts: 2,715
VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 12:43 PM   #2367
Pasta Giant Meatball Pasta Giant Meatball is offline
Hungry?
 
Pasta Giant Meatball's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: U.S.A.
Casino cash: $15290
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Mojo tends to buckle under the weight of 100 mph fastballs.

The Tiggers should detonate the Giants. The Giants still only have 2 decent SPs and that's not going to be enough against a lineup as deep as the Tigers, especially with the SP that Detroit brings to bear.

The Giants will beat the Tigers bullpen at least once, but they need to turn that trick at least twice to have a chance.

I say Detroit takes it in 5 by closing it out on their home turf.

Y'know, kinda like we should've done when we took the night off against Barry MFing Zito.

!@#$. Angry again. ****ing Cardinals.
You were saying....
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count Zarth View Post
If this team goes 9-7 I'll eat a bug.
Posts: 32,630
Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pasta Giant Meatball is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 01:58 PM   #2368
whoman69 whoman69 is offline
The Master
 
whoman69's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Casino cash: $5000
Always bet on the tested team rather than the rested team in the first days of a playoff.
__________________
-Watching Eddie Podolak
Quote:
Originally posted by Logical
When the boobs are a bouncin, the Chiefs will be trouncin
What the Raiders fan has said is true, our customs are different. What Al Davis has said is unimportant, and we do not hear his words.
Posts: 23,081
whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 07:25 PM   #2369
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
Brainwashed
 
BigRedChief's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Swims with fishes
Casino cash: $16975
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAChief View Post
I would trade Shelby to get him. Texas kid who got some good exposure at the end of the year here. I could see that happening. Texas is going to lose Elvis in 2 years, their can't miss prospect at short is ready now if needed...sounds like win win to me. We still have Rosenthal, Wacha, Seigrist, and Martinez who have power arms that could be ready for starter roles just as quickly as Shelby.
****ing Mo was signaling he was open to offers according to Gould's tweet from the post dispatch.
__________________
The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination.

Albert Einstein
Posts: 44,662
BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 08:31 PM   #2370
VAChief VAChief is offline
Comfortably Numb
 

Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Virginia
Casino cash: $5372
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
****ing Mo was signaling he was open to offers according to Gould's tweet from the post dispatch.
Offers for Miller? Andrus is the only guy I have seen that might be available that would seem like a possibility. Andrus is only 24 and I think he would flourish in St. Louis. We could be set up the middle for 10 years if Wong pans out as expected. Maybe not All-Stars every year, but solid all around guys.
Posts: 2,715
VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.VAChief has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:10 PM.


This is a test for a client's site.
A new website that shows member-created construction site listings that need fill or have excess fill. Dirt Monkey @ https://DirtMonkey.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.