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Old 10-31-2012, 11:48 AM  
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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Do you think Heaven exists?

As some of you may know or not I lost my mom 3 weeks ago and I am sort of struggling with my beliefs with this. She wanted to die so she could go to Heaven instead of getting her colon out. She definitely believed in Heaven and I honestly hope she wasn't disappointed.

My heart wants to believe in Heaven for the simple fact I want to see her again along with my grandma and sometime in the near future my dad.

My head tells me logically that there is probably no heaven and I get a little upset when people say she is in a better place because I really want to say Is she or how do you know?

So I am curious what you guys\gals believe and I am wondering outside of what the bible says has there been anything you have witnessed or experienced that lead you to believe one way or another?



Edit: I do appreciate all the kind words of support it does mean alot but I am not wanting this to be a sympathy thread so any argument for against is fine by me. There will be no offense taken. So have at it.

Last edited by dirk digler; 10-31-2012 at 03:05 PM..
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:52 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Thanks for making my point for me.

See my sig or this:

"I hold that the influence of churches, and the effect of religious belief, is positively harmful."

-Christopher Hitchens
Ok, then I think your point was stupid. Believing that you have an obligation to kill infidels or abortionists might be harmful, but believing in an afterlife isn't.
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:54 PM   #182
KILLER_CLOWN KILLER_CLOWN is offline
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HAHA Dave and possibly RnR are now converting to JW's!
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:58 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Ok, then I think your point was stupid. Believing that you have an obligation to kill infidels or abortionists might be harmful, but believing in an afterlife isn't.
When religious people try to interject their brand of morality into governmental laws it is harmful. If every christian just stayed home and and didn't try to force their views on others I'd move to I don't care, kinda like you would if democrats stayed home and never voted.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:02 PM   #184
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Dirk, don't look to religion. Religion is man trying to get to God.

Jesus is God trying to get to man.


Hope this helps...we are three dimensional..body, soul and spirit...the body returns to dust, the spirit is the essence that you miss..the soul is eternal.

This is why your mom was ready.....She knew her body was failing...She knew the love she gave you would live on through you..She knew her soul was going to be with God in Heaven.. ..even in the sadness of her passing, she gave you a wonderful gift.


Hoping you find peace.
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:14 PM   #185
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
Dirk, don't look to religion. Religion is man trying to get to God.

Jesus is God trying to get to man.


Hope this helps...we are three dimensional..body, soul and spirit...the body returns to dust, the spirit is the essence that you miss..the soul is eternal.

This is why your mom was ready.....She knew her body was failing...She knew the love she gave you would live on through you..She knew her soul was going to be with God in Heaven.. ..even in the sadness of her passing, she gave you a wonderful gift.


Hoping you find peace.
That might be the most beautiful thing I have read on this board or maybe anywhere...thank you thank you thank you
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:17 PM   #186
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This has nothing to do, really, with the OP, but I'm going to say it here and then I'm going to go about my business.

Dave Lane is a man who is actively searching for greater understanding, and because he searches, I respect him as my brother. And though he would rather not be my brother in Christ, I claim him anyway as my brother in exploring our humanity and the meaningfulness or meaninglessness of our time together here.

"And that's all I have to say about that."
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:21 PM   #187
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
When religious people try to interject their brand of morality into governmental laws it is harmful. If every christian just stayed home and and didn't try to force their views on others I'd move to I don't care, kinda like you would if democrats stayed home and never voted.
There are no laws based on a belief in an afterlife.
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:26 PM   #188
Dave Lane Dave Lane is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
There are no laws based on a belief in an afterlife.
I don't oppose anyone wanting to believe in an afterlife per se. Its all the other trappings that are objectionable to me.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:34 PM   #189
stevieray stevieray is offline
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...thank you thank you thank you

..you are so very welcome, my friend.

...you hold your head high! she must've been a HELLUVA woman!

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Old 11-01-2012, 11:13 PM   #190
Mrs. Loopner Mrs. Loopner is offline
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You can no more prove there's Jehovahs Witnesses are less like to be right than you can or can't say there is no God, heaven or hell unless of course you can prove it. It would be supposition.
Exactly!
My comment doesn't say Jehovah's Witnesses are less right. I simply pointed out a correction in classification which makes supposition moot at this juncture.
There are cult classics are there not?
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:16 AM   #191
Count Zarth Count Zarth is online now
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You can no more prove there's no afterlife than you can or can't say there is no God, heaven or hell unless of course you can prove it.
You can't prove a negative, disphit.

Jesus.

But since you asked, the concept of an afterlife has been around for thousands of years. Well before the Christian religion was founded.

It's just borrowed bullshit, handed down from generation to generation, with a different spin on it.

Christian religions took the afterlife concept and twisted it to suit their own means. Do this, do that, or you won't get into heaven. Give lots of money to the Church, get into heaven. Don't? YOU'RE GOING TO HAYLL, SINNER.

It's a big lie designed to control mankind. It's a bloody reward system. Do what we say, you get into this awesome heaven place. It's better than your shitty life spent ****ing about in the mud and planting turnips, so hop to it, peasant.

Meanwhile the "leaders" of the Church are off engaging in gluttony, incest, depraved sex acts with any wench they can find, murder, theft, etc, etc, etc.

Bull. Shit.

And so it gets handed down, generation to generation, kids get indoctrinated in it, and so on and so forth.

Thankfully humankind is finally waking up and you'll find the people who actually care about getting into heaven these days...in civilized parts of the world...are freaking miniscule.

Heard they don't even have DirecTV there anyway.

Place Atheist Brofist Here.

Last edited by Count Zarth; 11-02-2012 at 05:26 AM..
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Old 11-02-2012, 06:49 AM   #192
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning View Post
You can't prove a negative, disphit.

Jesus.

But since you asked, the concept of an afterlife has been around for thousands of years. Well before the Christian religion was founded.

It's just borrowed bullshit, handed down from generation to generation, with a different spin on it.

Christian religions took the afterlife concept and twisted it to suit their own means. Do this, do that, or you won't get into heaven. Give lots of money to the Church, get into heaven. Don't? YOU'RE GOING TO HAYLL, SINNER.

It's a big lie designed to control mankind. It's a bloody reward system. Do what we say, you get into this awesome heaven place. It's better than your shitty life spent ****ing about in the mud and planting turnips, so hop to it, peasant.

Meanwhile the "leaders" of the Church are off engaging in gluttony, incest, depraved sex acts with any wench they can find, murder, theft, etc, etc, etc.

Bull. Shit.

And so it gets handed down, generation to generation, kids get indoctrinated in it, and so on and so forth.

Thankfully humankind is finally waking up and you'll find the people who actually care about getting into heaven these days...in civilized parts of the world...are freaking miniscule.

Heard they don't even have DirecTV there anyway.

Place Atheist Brofist Here.
Clay I use to think EXACTLY like you do, hell part of me may still do. Then I lost 2 of the most important people in my life and my perspective has changed, admittedly mostly out of selfishness and the desire to see them again.
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:07 AM   #193
Mrs. Loopner Mrs. Loopner is offline
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Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning View Post
You can't prove a negative, disphit.

Heard they don't even have DirecTV there anyway.

Place Atheist Brofist Here.
Certainly not a mathematician or familiar with medicine are you?

diagnostic specificity;
the probability that a person not having a disease will be correctly identified by a clinical test, i.e., the number of true negative results divided by the total number of all those without the disease (which is the sum of the number of true negative plus false positive results).
Miller-Keane Encyclopedia and Dictionary of Medicine, Nursing, and Allied Health, Seventh Edition.

negative predictive value;
the probability that a patient with a negative test result really is free of the condition for which the test was conducted.
Saunders Comprehensive Veterinary Dictionary, 3 ed. © 2007 Elsevier, Inc

Of course, you could get tested for Moronic’s disease although I’m pretty sure it won’t come back Negative. Not sure there’s a cure for it but help is available.

What’s up with the, “Heard they don't even have DirecTV there anyway”? If it doesn’t exist then who’d you hear it from or are you hearing things now too?
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:09 AM   #194
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You compared logical disciplines, math and science, to ****ing belief in the afterlife?

Pull your head out of your ass.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:37 AM   #195
1moreTRich 1moreTRich is offline
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As a catholic turned atheist this video from This American Life always touches on a lot of the feelings I run into when someone dies. He does a much more eloquent job than I ever could.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADDo5PT_ToI

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