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Old 11-08-2012, 06:55 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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The Conservative Media Is Lying To You

Conor Friedersdorf ****ing nails it. If you bathe in the muck of the vast majority of conservative media -- if you read FoxNews.com more than any other site, if you hail Mark Levin as brilliant, if you live and die by Drudge...

Then you are being lied to.

There are plenty of conservative sources that simply have a conservative view on the world -- the Wall Street Journal, for instance. But that's distinct from the profitable media empire that sells propaganda damn near 24/7.

Example #1, since it comes up so much in this forum: the Drudge Report.

How many times did the Drudge Report link to Nate Silver, who absolutely crushed his election predictions? Zero.
How many times did the Drudge Report link to Dick Morris? A dozen.

And yet you bought it. You might recall sitting there watching the election returns, certain that Romney would win because for months you've been inundated with Republican whores like Morris telling you what you wanted to hear -- "Obama's a paper tiger," "his campaign is getting desperate," "absolutely nobody I know is voting Obama," "I see more Romney yard signs," "look at this outlier poll that favors Romney"...

Then the results come in, largely how the vast majority of polls told us they would.

You were misinformed. Massively. And it's not just limited to election returns. On climate change, tax rates, income inequality, immigration, healthcare, energy, foreign policy (in particular the Middle East), gay rights for the longest time, and of course Obama himself... You are being sold a bullshit platter that leaves you just as misinformed as you were about the prospective election results.

The biggest offender, of course, is Fox News. Not that they're the most egregious violators of conservative propaganda, but they're by far the most pervasive and the most influential.

You trust Fox News because you believe they are simply reporting from a conservative point of view. That's not true. They are actively selling bullshit. This election and Rove's meltdown on the evening of the 6th is proof. This is an organization that is financially and professionally tied to the Republican Party. Fox News' overlords donate heavily to the GOP. Many Republican candidates for the Presidency either end up or originate as Fox News contributors. This is not an independent outlet in any shape or form, it is a direct arm of the Republican Party.

Get out of this bubble. Set Google News as your homepage. And embrace the next four years as an opportunity to find out what you actually believe, rather than simply adopting the narrative of charlatans.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...d-file/264855/

How Conservative Media Lost to the MSM and Failed the Rank and File
Nate Silver was right. His ideological antagonists were wrong. And that's just the beginning of the right's self-created information disadvantage.
By Conor Friedersdorf
Nov 7 2012, 6:30 AM ET

Before rank-and-file conservatives ask, "What went wrong?", they should ask themselves a question every bit as important: "Why were we the last to realize that things were going wrong for us?"

Barack Obama just trounced a Republican opponent for the second time. But unlike four years ago, when most conservatives saw it coming, Tuesday's result was, for them, an unpleasant surprise. So many on the right had predicted a Mitt Romney victory, or even a blowout -- Dick Morris, George Will, and Michael Barone all predicted the GOP would break 300 electoral votes. Joe Scarborough scoffed at the notion that the election was anything other than a toss-up. Peggy Noonan insisted that those predicting an Obama victory were ignoring the world around them. Even Karl Rove, supposed political genius, missed the bulls-eye. These voices drove the coverage on Fox News, talk radio, the Drudge Report, and conservative blogs.

Those audiences were misinformed.

Outside the conservative media, the narrative was completely different. Its driving force was Nate Silver, whose performance forecasting Election '08 gave him credibility as he daily explained why his model showed that President Obama enjoyed a very good chance of being reelected. Other experts echoed his findings. Readers of The New York Times, The Atlantic, and other "mainstream media" sites besides knew the expert predictions, which have been largely born out. The conclusions of experts are not sacrosanct. But Silver's expertise was always a better bet than relying on ideological hacks like Morris or the anecdotal impressions of Noonan.


Sure, Silver could've wound up wrong. But people who rejected the possibility of his being right? They were operating at a self-imposed information disadvantage.

Conservatives should be familiar with its contours. For years, they've been arguing that liberal control of media and academia confers one advantage: Folks on the right can't help but be familiar with the thinking of liberals, whereas leftists can operate entirely within a liberal cocoon. This analysis was offered to explain why liberal ideas were growing weaker and would be defeated.

Today?

It is easy to close oneself off inside a conservative echo chamber. And right-leaning outlets like Fox News and Rush Limbaugh's show are far more intellectually closed than CNN or public radio. If you're a rank-and-file conservative, you're probably ready to acknowledge that ideologically friendly media didn't accurately inform you about Election 2012. Some pundits engaged in wishful thinking; others feigned confidence in hopes that it would be a self-fulfilling prophecy; still others decided it was smart to keep telling right-leaning audiences what they wanted to hear.

But guess what?

You haven't just been misinformed about the horse race. Since the very beginning of the election cycle, conservative media has been failing you. With a few exceptions, they haven't tried to rigorously tell you the truth, or even to bring you intellectually honest opinion. What they've done instead helps to explain why the right failed to triumph in a very winnable election.

Why do you keep putting up with it?

Conservatives were at a disadvantage because Romney supporters like Jennifer Rubin and Hugh Hewitt saw it as their duty to spin constantly for their favored candidate rather than being frank about his strengths and weaknesses. What conservative Washington Post readers got, when they traded in Dave Weigel for Rubin, was a lot more hackery and a lot less informed about the presidential election.

Conservatives were at an information disadvantage because so many right-leaning outlets wasted time on stories the rest of America dismissed as nonsense. WorldNetDaily brought you birtherism. Forbes brought you Kenyan anti-colonialism. National Review obsessed about an imaginary rejection of American exceptionalism, misrepresenting an Obama quote in the process, and Andy McCarthy was interviewed widely about his theory that Obama, aka the Drone Warrior in Chief, allied himself with our Islamist enemies in a "Grand Jihad" against America. Seriously?

Conservatives were at a disadvantage because their information elites pandered in the most cynical, self-defeating ways, treating would-be candidates like Sarah Palin and Herman Cain as if they were plausible presidents rather than national jokes who'd lose worse than George McGovern.

How many months were wasted on them?

How many hours of Glenn Beck conspiracy theories did Fox News broadcast to its viewers? How many hours of transparently mindless Sean Hannity content is still broadcast daily? Why don't Americans trust Republicans on foreign policy as they once did? In part because conservatism hasn't grappled with the foreign-policy failures of George W. Bush. A conspiracy of silence surrounds the subject. Romney could neither run on the man's record nor repudiate it. The most damaging Romney gaffe of the campaign, where he talked about how the 47 percent of Americans who pay no income taxes are a lost cause for Republicans? Either he was unaware that many of those people are Republican voters, or was pandering to GOP donors who are misinformed. Either way, bad information within the conservative movement was to blame.

In conservative fantasy-land, Richard Nixon was a champion of ideological conservatism, tax cuts are the only way to raise revenue, adding neoconservatives to a foreign-policy team reassures American voters, Benghazi was a winning campaign issue, Clint Eastwood's convention speech was a brilliant triumph, and Obama's America is a place where black kids can beat up white kids with impunity. Most conservative pundits know better than this nonsense -- not that they speak up against it. They see criticizing their own side as a sign of disloyalty. I see a coalition that has lost all perspective, partly because there's no cost to broadcasting or publishing inane bullshit. In fact, it's often very profitable. A lot of cynical people have gotten rich broadcasting and publishing red meat for movement conservative consumption.

On the biggest political story of the year, the conservative media just got its ass handed to it by the mainstream media. And movement conservatives, who believe the MSM is more biased and less rigorous than their alternatives, have no way to explain how their trusted outlets got it wrong, while the New York Times got it right. Hint: The Times hired the most rigorous forecaster it could find.

It ought to be an eye-opening moment.

But I expect that it'll be quickly forgotten, that none of the conservatives who touted a polling conspiracy will be discredited, and that the right will continue to operate at an information disadvantage. After all, it's not like they'll trust the analysis of a non-conservative like me more than the numerous fellow conservatives who constantly tell them things that turn out not to be true.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:40 AM   #91
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
First of all, no one should trust any news source. You should check out a variety of sources and pay attention to the actual quotes. By the way...sometimes the quotes aren't true either. It's rare but it happens. Also look for hard data in these articles and see if some of that data might be missing that applies to the story. Journalism is dead in this country. You have to be able to sift through the bullshit.
Solid.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:41 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
No, they approached his agenda the same way they've approached this election's poll numbers.

You understand your argument is that the "MSM" is in the tank for Obama entirely -- except for the one time we have objective numerical returns that prove they didn't. But for everything else...
They got polling numbers right but that’s not even what I’m talking about.
Yes, I thought it was pretty obvious that I’m saying the MSM is in the tank for Obama.
No, the MSM did not approach his agenda “fairly”. Were you sleep walking through the Fluck press conference set up to look like a congressional hearing?
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:41 AM   #93
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
No, it's not a fact. In an election a mandate is generally regarded as an overwhelming victory. One that is won by a substantial margin. The irony is strong in this thread you created about bias in the media, when you can't resist expressing your own.
I don't deny I have a bias.

Which is why I try to absorb various news outlets with various points of view.

It's impossible to shed your bias.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:42 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
First of all, no one should trust any news source. You should check out a variety of sources and pay attention to the actual quotes. By the way...sometimes the quotes aren't true either. It's rare but it happens. Also look for hard data in these articles and see if some of that data might be missing that applies to the story. Journalism is dead in this country. You have to be able to sift through the bullshit.
This is true. I remember when I first started watching CSPAN (when I was young and had cable TV). It was amazing to see the difference between what a politician actually said on the floor of Congress and how it was reported the next day in the newspaper.

A more recent example is reporting on a Pentagon report produced after sifting through reams of captured Iraqi documents. Mainstream news sources reported that the Pentagon had found no links between Saddam and al Qaeda. But if you look in the report, you find not only links, but collaborative links between Saddam and Ayman al-Zawahiri's Egyptian Islamic Jihad. Zawahiri's EIJ merged with bin Laden's al Qaeda prior to 9/11 and at the time of 9/11, most of al Qaeda's senior leadership supplied by EIJ.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:43 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
The mainstream media largely provided the poll numbers as they were, did they not?

What did Fox News do?
Anyone turning to television of any sort for poll results is a moron.

It's a poll - read it. That's how it's disseminated. Go to realclearpolitics and read them. Derive your results from there.

I'm not going to defend stupid people doing stupid things, nor do I think there is a very large segment of the voting population, conservative or otherwise, that engaged in that behavior.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:44 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Nice rebuttal.
As if your bald assertion was any better.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:44 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
Which “them”? If you’re talking about Democrats ’04 wasn’t the turning of the tide, ’06 was and from that point on it’s worked quite well.
The Democrats also had the benefit of a horrifically mismanaged war in 2006, and then a shattered economy in 2008. It's hard to tell if it was the Democrats' "doubling down" on alleged lies that scored them those victories.

George W. Bush scored them those victories.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:45 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I don't deny I have a bias.

Which is why I try to absorb various news outlets with various points of view.

It's impossible to shed your bias.
Fair enough.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:45 AM   #99
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I agree to a point but I don't think the right wing media thought this country had gone this far left like it played out. You are correct, more people fell for the left wing media as well. This president has been a disaster on many levels and that was downplayed, dismissed or even covered up. Much of it from the left wing media and parroted here. I see things through the prism of freedom versus tyranny and were definitely trending on the tyranny side but that's how this culture has been trending since the radical leftists of the 60's have taken over our culture.

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I just don't get this line of thought. Downplayed, dismissed, or even covered up? Really? People were just unaware of the failures of the administration, and simply missed the fact that the economy sucks and everyone is struggling? I'm not really seeing how that's possible...
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:47 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
The Democrats also had the benefit of a horrifically mismanaged war in 2006, and then a shattered economy in 2008. It's hard to tell if it was the Democrats' "doubling down" on alleged lies that scored them those victories.

George W. Bush scored them those victories.
I won’t disagree that Bush did the Republicans no favors in ’06 and ’08.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:47 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
They got polling numbers right but that’s not even what I’m talking about.
Yes, I thought it was pretty obvious that I’m saying the MSM is in the tank for Obama.
No, the MSM did not approach his agenda “fairly”. Were you sleep walking through the Fluck press conference set up to look like a congressional hearing?
The media didn't "get the polling numbers right." They just reported the polling numbers. Period.

The conservative media, by contrast, plucked out all the favorable Romney outliers.

The New York Times recruited and employed the absolute best polling mathematician in the country. The Drudge Report repeatedly linked to Dick Morris.

So, your argument is that the MSM is in the tank for Obama. Why were they not just plucking hilarious outliers that favored him, like the conservative media was for Romney?
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:48 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Anyone turning to television of any sort for poll results is a moron.

It's a poll - read it. That's how it's disseminated. Go to realclearpolitics and read them. Derive your results from there.

I'm not going to defend stupid people doing stupid things, nor do I think there is a very large segment of the voting population, conservative or otherwise, that engaged in that behavior.
How are Fox News' ratings?

Do you think the majority of those folks are regular, consistent viewers who predominantly rely on the network for information? Or just casual channel surfers like yourself looking to accumulate an additional opinion on current events?
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:49 AM   #103
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I just don't get this line of thought. Downplayed, dismissed, or even covered up? Really? People were just unaware of the failures of the administration, and simply missed the fact that the economy sucks and everyone is struggling? I'm not really seeing how that's possible...
Exit polling seems to indicate most Obama voters think the economy is getting better.
They also seem to indicate a lot of single issue women voters along with all the minorities.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:50 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
As if your bald assertion was any better.
I'm not even entirely sure you're aware of what I'm arguing, to be honest.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:51 AM   #105
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So, your argument is that the MSM is in the tank for Obama. Why were they not just plucking hilarious outliers that favored him, like the conservative media was for Romney?
Um, they did.
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