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Old 11-08-2012, 07:55 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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The Conservative Media Is Lying To You

Conor Friedersdorf ****ing nails it. If you bathe in the muck of the vast majority of conservative media -- if you read FoxNews.com more than any other site, if you hail Mark Levin as brilliant, if you live and die by Drudge...

Then you are being lied to.

There are plenty of conservative sources that simply have a conservative view on the world -- the Wall Street Journal, for instance. But that's distinct from the profitable media empire that sells propaganda damn near 24/7.

Example #1, since it comes up so much in this forum: the Drudge Report.

How many times did the Drudge Report link to Nate Silver, who absolutely crushed his election predictions? Zero.
How many times did the Drudge Report link to Dick Morris? A dozen.

And yet you bought it. You might recall sitting there watching the election returns, certain that Romney would win because for months you've been inundated with Republican whores like Morris telling you what you wanted to hear -- "Obama's a paper tiger," "his campaign is getting desperate," "absolutely nobody I know is voting Obama," "I see more Romney yard signs," "look at this outlier poll that favors Romney"...

Then the results come in, largely how the vast majority of polls told us they would.

You were misinformed. Massively. And it's not just limited to election returns. On climate change, tax rates, income inequality, immigration, healthcare, energy, foreign policy (in particular the Middle East), gay rights for the longest time, and of course Obama himself... You are being sold a bullshit platter that leaves you just as misinformed as you were about the prospective election results.

The biggest offender, of course, is Fox News. Not that they're the most egregious violators of conservative propaganda, but they're by far the most pervasive and the most influential.

You trust Fox News because you believe they are simply reporting from a conservative point of view. That's not true. They are actively selling bullshit. This election and Rove's meltdown on the evening of the 6th is proof. This is an organization that is financially and professionally tied to the Republican Party. Fox News' overlords donate heavily to the GOP. Many Republican candidates for the Presidency either end up or originate as Fox News contributors. This is not an independent outlet in any shape or form, it is a direct arm of the Republican Party.

Get out of this bubble. Set Google News as your homepage. And embrace the next four years as an opportunity to find out what you actually believe, rather than simply adopting the narrative of charlatans.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...d-file/264855/

How Conservative Media Lost to the MSM and Failed the Rank and File
Nate Silver was right. His ideological antagonists were wrong. And that's just the beginning of the right's self-created information disadvantage.
By Conor Friedersdorf
Nov 7 2012, 6:30 AM ET

Before rank-and-file conservatives ask, "What went wrong?", they should ask themselves a question every bit as important: "Why were we the last to realize that things were going wrong for us?"

Barack Obama just trounced a Republican opponent for the second time. But unlike four years ago, when most conservatives saw it coming, Tuesday's result was, for them, an unpleasant surprise. So many on the right had predicted a Mitt Romney victory, or even a blowout -- Dick Morris, George Will, and Michael Barone all predicted the GOP would break 300 electoral votes. Joe Scarborough scoffed at the notion that the election was anything other than a toss-up. Peggy Noonan insisted that those predicting an Obama victory were ignoring the world around them. Even Karl Rove, supposed political genius, missed the bulls-eye. These voices drove the coverage on Fox News, talk radio, the Drudge Report, and conservative blogs.

Those audiences were misinformed.

Outside the conservative media, the narrative was completely different. Its driving force was Nate Silver, whose performance forecasting Election '08 gave him credibility as he daily explained why his model showed that President Obama enjoyed a very good chance of being reelected. Other experts echoed his findings. Readers of The New York Times, The Atlantic, and other "mainstream media" sites besides knew the expert predictions, which have been largely born out. The conclusions of experts are not sacrosanct. But Silver's expertise was always a better bet than relying on ideological hacks like Morris or the anecdotal impressions of Noonan.


Sure, Silver could've wound up wrong. But people who rejected the possibility of his being right? They were operating at a self-imposed information disadvantage.

Conservatives should be familiar with its contours. For years, they've been arguing that liberal control of media and academia confers one advantage: Folks on the right can't help but be familiar with the thinking of liberals, whereas leftists can operate entirely within a liberal cocoon. This analysis was offered to explain why liberal ideas were growing weaker and would be defeated.

Today?

It is easy to close oneself off inside a conservative echo chamber. And right-leaning outlets like Fox News and Rush Limbaugh's show are far more intellectually closed than CNN or public radio. If you're a rank-and-file conservative, you're probably ready to acknowledge that ideologically friendly media didn't accurately inform you about Election 2012. Some pundits engaged in wishful thinking; others feigned confidence in hopes that it would be a self-fulfilling prophecy; still others decided it was smart to keep telling right-leaning audiences what they wanted to hear.

But guess what?

You haven't just been misinformed about the horse race. Since the very beginning of the election cycle, conservative media has been failing you. With a few exceptions, they haven't tried to rigorously tell you the truth, or even to bring you intellectually honest opinion. What they've done instead helps to explain why the right failed to triumph in a very winnable election.

Why do you keep putting up with it?

Conservatives were at a disadvantage because Romney supporters like Jennifer Rubin and Hugh Hewitt saw it as their duty to spin constantly for their favored candidate rather than being frank about his strengths and weaknesses. What conservative Washington Post readers got, when they traded in Dave Weigel for Rubin, was a lot more hackery and a lot less informed about the presidential election.

Conservatives were at an information disadvantage because so many right-leaning outlets wasted time on stories the rest of America dismissed as nonsense. WorldNetDaily brought you birtherism. Forbes brought you Kenyan anti-colonialism. National Review obsessed about an imaginary rejection of American exceptionalism, misrepresenting an Obama quote in the process, and Andy McCarthy was interviewed widely about his theory that Obama, aka the Drone Warrior in Chief, allied himself with our Islamist enemies in a "Grand Jihad" against America. Seriously?

Conservatives were at a disadvantage because their information elites pandered in the most cynical, self-defeating ways, treating would-be candidates like Sarah Palin and Herman Cain as if they were plausible presidents rather than national jokes who'd lose worse than George McGovern.

How many months were wasted on them?

How many hours of Glenn Beck conspiracy theories did Fox News broadcast to its viewers? How many hours of transparently mindless Sean Hannity content is still broadcast daily? Why don't Americans trust Republicans on foreign policy as they once did? In part because conservatism hasn't grappled with the foreign-policy failures of George W. Bush. A conspiracy of silence surrounds the subject. Romney could neither run on the man's record nor repudiate it. The most damaging Romney gaffe of the campaign, where he talked about how the 47 percent of Americans who pay no income taxes are a lost cause for Republicans? Either he was unaware that many of those people are Republican voters, or was pandering to GOP donors who are misinformed. Either way, bad information within the conservative movement was to blame.

In conservative fantasy-land, Richard Nixon was a champion of ideological conservatism, tax cuts are the only way to raise revenue, adding neoconservatives to a foreign-policy team reassures American voters, Benghazi was a winning campaign issue, Clint Eastwood's convention speech was a brilliant triumph, and Obama's America is a place where black kids can beat up white kids with impunity. Most conservative pundits know better than this nonsense -- not that they speak up against it. They see criticizing their own side as a sign of disloyalty. I see a coalition that has lost all perspective, partly because there's no cost to broadcasting or publishing inane bullshit. In fact, it's often very profitable. A lot of cynical people have gotten rich broadcasting and publishing red meat for movement conservative consumption.

On the biggest political story of the year, the conservative media just got its ass handed to it by the mainstream media. And movement conservatives, who believe the MSM is more biased and less rigorous than their alternatives, have no way to explain how their trusted outlets got it wrong, while the New York Times got it right. Hint: The Times hired the most rigorous forecaster it could find.

It ought to be an eye-opening moment.

But I expect that it'll be quickly forgotten, that none of the conservatives who touted a polling conspiracy will be discredited, and that the right will continue to operate at an information disadvantage. After all, it's not like they'll trust the analysis of a non-conservative like me more than the numerous fellow conservatives who constantly tell them things that turn out not to be true.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:28 PM   #151
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Not true. That phrase comes from the Declaration Of Independence. Our nation was founded upon the Constitution. Our liberty is given to us by "We the people".
Except it was really given to us by the states who had to ratify it. If you really want to be technical about it, the Constitution was a violation of the Articles of Confederation which was signed in perpetuity and could only be amended unanimously. The original Constitutional Convention was a runaway convention. It had no right to serve up a new document.

Either way, the Constitution is still a natural rights document which is what the Declaration is. Natural rights means our rights precede govt—they are not given to us by govt. If that were the case govt can take them away. You're making a positive rights argument, not a natural law one.
This is the key difference between our Constitution and all others in the world and it's an important distinction.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:32 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Dude,

Your guy won the election.

If you want to be classy about it, you might think about dialing it back a little.
**** that.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:39 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Except it was really given to us by the states who had to ratify it. If you really want to be technical about it, the Constitution was a violation of the Articles of Confederation which was signed in perpetuity and could only be amended unanimously. The original Constitutional Convention was a runaway convention. It had no right to serve up a new document.

Either way, the Constitution is still a natural rights document which is what the Declaration is. Natural rights means our rights precede govt—they are not given to us by govt. If that were the case govt can take them away. You're making a positive rights argument, not a natural law one.
This is the key difference between our Constitution and all others in the world and it's an important distinction.
Sure it was meant to supersede the Articles out of political necessity. It was signed off on by the representatives of the states thus enforcing the notion of a republic. The interesting thing about the Constitution is that it recognizes the power of the people, through representation, to control the government. Yes the government can pass laws that take away rights but then we can vote those members out of office. It's not perfect but it's one way to go and it does guarantee that the ultimate power resides within us as a group-not the government. That's the difference. The DoI is a letter to the world explaining why we decided to secede from Britain. Our laws are not based on it. The Constitution is our foundation. It establishes us as a representational republic with ultimate power coming from the citizens of the country. Not God.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:40 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
Sure it does. Why else would the liberal media be going on about Obama having a mandate, when he barely won the popular vote, and is the first President in history to be re-elected with LESS electoral votes than he got the first time.
From which right-wing media source did you get that?

Trying to diminsh his win any way you can. Its like telling a repeat Super Bowl champion, "Before you scored 40 points. This time you only scored 30. You suck!"
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:44 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Ah the old law nature that says both sides must be equal and opposite in all things. It must be comforting, and help stave off any painful introspection, to know than the matter what scurrilous bullshit your side pulls - the other side is always just as bad.

There is no equivalent on the left of the Rupert Murdoch media empire – not in viewership, not in intensity, not in brazenness, not in the level to which their constituents buy everything they're selling.
If it was only the Murdoch empire. Go down a level to the Breitbarts and such, and you're lucky to find anything resembling something true.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:46 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
Then Hannity is a legitimate commentator as well. I do not see any difference between them other than their political views. But again, I do not watch either of their shows enough to be an expert.

Both Hannity and Maddow strike me as severely partisan for their points of view.
One is fact-based. The other has Dick Morris as a frequent guest. And I can't really stand listening to Maddow.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:51 PM   #157
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While I disagree with this article, I do believe that people who fall to their knees and worship Drudge, Breitbart, and Fox News are foolish. I'm as skeptical of them as I am of the leftwing news orgs.
There was some guy on here a few days ago going on about Romney having Iowa locked up. Just thinking about those fools who ate that up makes me .
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:52 PM   #158
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Good thread D and think we can all admit Bill Maher was right.

I was going to start a similar one but basically I was going to give some friendly advice to my conservative friends which was turn off Fox News and stop listening to Rush, Hannity, and Beck. There is alot of smart conservatives out there like Jonah Goldberg, Reihan Salam, Elizabeth Hoover, Laura Ingraham and even Andrew Sullivan but not Michelle Malkin.

I hardly ever watch MSNBC or Maddow but I did catch a little last night and she said something that was spot on and I believe very true. Enjoy.

Quote:
Ohio really did go to President Obama last night. And he really did win. And he really was born in Hawaii. And he really is
legitimately president of the United States, again.

And the Bureau of Labor Statistics did not make up a fake unemployment rate last month. And the Congressional Research Service really can find no
evidence that cutting taxes on rich people grows the economy. And the polls were not skewed to oversample Democrats. And Nate Silver was not
making up fake projections about the election to make conservatives feel bad. Nate Silver was doing math.

And climate change is real. And rape really does cause pregnancy sometimes. And evolution is a thing.

And Benghazi was an attack on us, it was not a scandal by us.

And nobody is taking away anyone`s guns. And taxes have not gone up. And the deficit is dropping, actually.

And Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction.

And the moon landing was real. And FEMA is not building concentration camps. And U.N. election observers are not taking over Texas. And moderate reforms of the regulations on the insurance industry and the financial services industry in this country are not the same thing as communism.

Listen, last night was a good night for liberals and for Democrats for very obvious reasons, but it was also, possibly, a good night for this country as a whole, because in this country, we have a two-party system in government. And the idea is supposed to be that the two sides, both come up with ways to confront and fix the real problems facing our country.

They both propose possible solutions to our real problems. And we debate between those possible solutions.

And by the process of debate, we pick the best idea. That competition between good ideas from both sides about real problems in the real country
should result in our country having better choices, better options, than if only one side is really working on the hard stuff.

And the if the Republican Party and the conservative movement and the conservative media is stuck in a vacuum-sealed door-locked spin cycle of
telling each other what makes them feel good and denying the factual, lived truth of the world, then we are all deprived as a nation of the
constructive debate about competing feasible ideas about real problems.

Last night the Republicans got shellacked, and they had no idea it was coming. And we saw them in real time, in real humiliating time, not
believe it, even as it was happening to them.

And unless they are going to is secede, they are going to have to pop the factual bubble they have been so happy living inside if they do not
want to get shellacked again. And that will be a painful process for them, but it will be good for the whole country, left, right, and center. You
guys, we`re counting on you. Wake up.

There are real problems in the world. There are real, knowable facts in the world. Let`s accept those and talk about how we might approach our problems differently. Let`s move on from there.

If the Republican Party and the conservative movement and conservative media are forced to do that by the humiliation they were dealt last night,
we will all be better off as a nation.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:54 PM   #159
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I have never seen a combination of perfect pitch and perfect idiocy like the "War on Women".
You ever see the War on Christmas?
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:55 PM   #160
KChiefer KChiefer is offline
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You ever see the War on Christmas?
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:56 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by The_Grand_Illusion View Post
The radical leftists of the 60's and their culture they have been pushing for decades is now the majority. Lot's of deception over decades had to happen to get us to this point. The thread title is nothing but mere projection.

TGI
Those darn hippies with their long hair, rock 'n roll and blue jeans!
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:07 PM   #162
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Not at all. They had experience dealing with countries where State and Church were mixed. They were well aware of the power of churches in Europe and rule by divine right. They wanted the law to be based on the will of the people, to self govern as much as is realistically possible. That is a common theme running through our Constitution. That's why they chose a republic.
One of my disagreements with the right is the revisionist bullshit they keep trying to shove down our throats. There is a wall of separation that they have tried to dismiss for years. This country WAS NOT founded as a Christian nation. Madison and Jefferson made that VERY clear. The revised the pledge of of allegiance adding "one nation under god" and adding " in god we trust" to our currency. All happened in the 50s oh wait some Glenn Beck troll will point out it appeared on the nickel in the late 30s if I recall right. Whatever these people try to claim this government was not set up secular and they are simply full of shit. You have the right to believe as you wish but those beliefs were never intended to be integrated into our government. For those who follow whatever belief system good for you and I am glad it provides you happiness. I will fight for your right to do so, just don't try to teach that nonsense to our children in school and don't try to claim that it had anything to do with the founding of our country~
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:08 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
I was going to start a similar one but basically I was going to give some friendly advice to my conservative friends which was turn off Fox News and stop listening to Rush, Hannity, and Beck. There is alot of smart conservatives out there like Jonah Goldberg, Reihan Salam, Elizabeth Hoover, Laura Ingraham and even Andrew Sullivan but not Michelle Malkin...
Wanted to drop in just to see how the celebration was going. I see its going well. I think the OP has some decent points. And while I wasnt sure that Romney was going to win, I was optimistic.

It was pretty apparent that as the swing states were close and others that were 'in play' werent which way this was going.

While I dont feel 'lied' to necessarily, it is a bit disappointing to see that it was close or within 1 or 2 points that it really wasnt. One point I want to make is that Romney got fewer votes than McCain did, and that is surprising.

So, to the quote above...I have decided to disconnect...completely. Im not listening to any of it, left or right. I have pretty much given up. While time may change that, I figure we have a country that wants a larger government in everyone's life. I have to live with that now, and Im willing to accept that.

As long as I dont get persecuted for holding opposing views from the majority of the country, I'll go on living my life and leave the governing to those that think the only solution is higher taxes, printing money and presidential fiat.

I dont honestly think there will be another presidential election in my lifetime. Again, Im willing to accept it.

I'll drop by off and on still, but for all intents and purposes the takers now outnumber the producers in this country. Congrats, you all won! Enjoy!
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:21 PM   #164
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Not at all. They had experience dealing with countries where State and Church were mixed. They were well aware of the power of churches in Europe and rule by divine right. They wanted the law to be based on the will of the people, to self govern as much as is realistically possible. That is a common theme running through our Constitution. That's why they chose a republic.
This isn't a state and church issue. Whether your "God" is Jesus or Mother Nature doesn't matter, but the founding fathers didn't believe that they, as representatives of the people, were bestowing rights. They believed that rights were inherent in our being. For a religious person, that means bestowed by God.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:23 PM   #165
penchief penchief is offline
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Because conservatives deserve it when your hacks get hateful and venomous, amirite?

Bill Maher two days ago referring to Karl Rove on FoxNews' election coverage:
Umm, yeah. I think that joke went over your head. Pretty sure he was not calling him a nazi. I'm reasonably sure he was equating Rove's role as a mastermind hunkered down and in complete denial. I also heard another version of the same reference from some comedian about, "still having two tank brigades on the eastern front..."

I could be wrong but that's not the way I took it. Maybe you're right, though. But maybe you're just missing the irony...
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