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Old 11-08-2012, 06:55 AM  
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The Conservative Media Is Lying To You

Conor Friedersdorf ****ing nails it. If you bathe in the muck of the vast majority of conservative media -- if you read FoxNews.com more than any other site, if you hail Mark Levin as brilliant, if you live and die by Drudge...

Then you are being lied to.

There are plenty of conservative sources that simply have a conservative view on the world -- the Wall Street Journal, for instance. But that's distinct from the profitable media empire that sells propaganda damn near 24/7.

Example #1, since it comes up so much in this forum: the Drudge Report.

How many times did the Drudge Report link to Nate Silver, who absolutely crushed his election predictions? Zero.
How many times did the Drudge Report link to Dick Morris? A dozen.

And yet you bought it. You might recall sitting there watching the election returns, certain that Romney would win because for months you've been inundated with Republican whores like Morris telling you what you wanted to hear -- "Obama's a paper tiger," "his campaign is getting desperate," "absolutely nobody I know is voting Obama," "I see more Romney yard signs," "look at this outlier poll that favors Romney"...

Then the results come in, largely how the vast majority of polls told us they would.

You were misinformed. Massively. And it's not just limited to election returns. On climate change, tax rates, income inequality, immigration, healthcare, energy, foreign policy (in particular the Middle East), gay rights for the longest time, and of course Obama himself... You are being sold a bullshit platter that leaves you just as misinformed as you were about the prospective election results.

The biggest offender, of course, is Fox News. Not that they're the most egregious violators of conservative propaganda, but they're by far the most pervasive and the most influential.

You trust Fox News because you believe they are simply reporting from a conservative point of view. That's not true. They are actively selling bullshit. This election and Rove's meltdown on the evening of the 6th is proof. This is an organization that is financially and professionally tied to the Republican Party. Fox News' overlords donate heavily to the GOP. Many Republican candidates for the Presidency either end up or originate as Fox News contributors. This is not an independent outlet in any shape or form, it is a direct arm of the Republican Party.

Get out of this bubble. Set Google News as your homepage. And embrace the next four years as an opportunity to find out what you actually believe, rather than simply adopting the narrative of charlatans.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...d-file/264855/

How Conservative Media Lost to the MSM and Failed the Rank and File
Nate Silver was right. His ideological antagonists were wrong. And that's just the beginning of the right's self-created information disadvantage.
By Conor Friedersdorf
Nov 7 2012, 6:30 AM ET

Before rank-and-file conservatives ask, "What went wrong?", they should ask themselves a question every bit as important: "Why were we the last to realize that things were going wrong for us?"

Barack Obama just trounced a Republican opponent for the second time. But unlike four years ago, when most conservatives saw it coming, Tuesday's result was, for them, an unpleasant surprise. So many on the right had predicted a Mitt Romney victory, or even a blowout -- Dick Morris, George Will, and Michael Barone all predicted the GOP would break 300 electoral votes. Joe Scarborough scoffed at the notion that the election was anything other than a toss-up. Peggy Noonan insisted that those predicting an Obama victory were ignoring the world around them. Even Karl Rove, supposed political genius, missed the bulls-eye. These voices drove the coverage on Fox News, talk radio, the Drudge Report, and conservative blogs.

Those audiences were misinformed.

Outside the conservative media, the narrative was completely different. Its driving force was Nate Silver, whose performance forecasting Election '08 gave him credibility as he daily explained why his model showed that President Obama enjoyed a very good chance of being reelected. Other experts echoed his findings. Readers of The New York Times, The Atlantic, and other "mainstream media" sites besides knew the expert predictions, which have been largely born out. The conclusions of experts are not sacrosanct. But Silver's expertise was always a better bet than relying on ideological hacks like Morris or the anecdotal impressions of Noonan.


Sure, Silver could've wound up wrong. But people who rejected the possibility of his being right? They were operating at a self-imposed information disadvantage.

Conservatives should be familiar with its contours. For years, they've been arguing that liberal control of media and academia confers one advantage: Folks on the right can't help but be familiar with the thinking of liberals, whereas leftists can operate entirely within a liberal cocoon. This analysis was offered to explain why liberal ideas were growing weaker and would be defeated.

Today?

It is easy to close oneself off inside a conservative echo chamber. And right-leaning outlets like Fox News and Rush Limbaugh's show are far more intellectually closed than CNN or public radio. If you're a rank-and-file conservative, you're probably ready to acknowledge that ideologically friendly media didn't accurately inform you about Election 2012. Some pundits engaged in wishful thinking; others feigned confidence in hopes that it would be a self-fulfilling prophecy; still others decided it was smart to keep telling right-leaning audiences what they wanted to hear.

But guess what?

You haven't just been misinformed about the horse race. Since the very beginning of the election cycle, conservative media has been failing you. With a few exceptions, they haven't tried to rigorously tell you the truth, or even to bring you intellectually honest opinion. What they've done instead helps to explain why the right failed to triumph in a very winnable election.

Why do you keep putting up with it?

Conservatives were at a disadvantage because Romney supporters like Jennifer Rubin and Hugh Hewitt saw it as their duty to spin constantly for their favored candidate rather than being frank about his strengths and weaknesses. What conservative Washington Post readers got, when they traded in Dave Weigel for Rubin, was a lot more hackery and a lot less informed about the presidential election.

Conservatives were at an information disadvantage because so many right-leaning outlets wasted time on stories the rest of America dismissed as nonsense. WorldNetDaily brought you birtherism. Forbes brought you Kenyan anti-colonialism. National Review obsessed about an imaginary rejection of American exceptionalism, misrepresenting an Obama quote in the process, and Andy McCarthy was interviewed widely about his theory that Obama, aka the Drone Warrior in Chief, allied himself with our Islamist enemies in a "Grand Jihad" against America. Seriously?

Conservatives were at a disadvantage because their information elites pandered in the most cynical, self-defeating ways, treating would-be candidates like Sarah Palin and Herman Cain as if they were plausible presidents rather than national jokes who'd lose worse than George McGovern.

How many months were wasted on them?

How many hours of Glenn Beck conspiracy theories did Fox News broadcast to its viewers? How many hours of transparently mindless Sean Hannity content is still broadcast daily? Why don't Americans trust Republicans on foreign policy as they once did? In part because conservatism hasn't grappled with the foreign-policy failures of George W. Bush. A conspiracy of silence surrounds the subject. Romney could neither run on the man's record nor repudiate it. The most damaging Romney gaffe of the campaign, where he talked about how the 47 percent of Americans who pay no income taxes are a lost cause for Republicans? Either he was unaware that many of those people are Republican voters, or was pandering to GOP donors who are misinformed. Either way, bad information within the conservative movement was to blame.

In conservative fantasy-land, Richard Nixon was a champion of ideological conservatism, tax cuts are the only way to raise revenue, adding neoconservatives to a foreign-policy team reassures American voters, Benghazi was a winning campaign issue, Clint Eastwood's convention speech was a brilliant triumph, and Obama's America is a place where black kids can beat up white kids with impunity. Most conservative pundits know better than this nonsense -- not that they speak up against it. They see criticizing their own side as a sign of disloyalty. I see a coalition that has lost all perspective, partly because there's no cost to broadcasting or publishing inane bullshit. In fact, it's often very profitable. A lot of cynical people have gotten rich broadcasting and publishing red meat for movement conservative consumption.

On the biggest political story of the year, the conservative media just got its ass handed to it by the mainstream media. And movement conservatives, who believe the MSM is more biased and less rigorous than their alternatives, have no way to explain how their trusted outlets got it wrong, while the New York Times got it right. Hint: The Times hired the most rigorous forecaster it could find.

It ought to be an eye-opening moment.

But I expect that it'll be quickly forgotten, that none of the conservatives who touted a polling conspiracy will be discredited, and that the right will continue to operate at an information disadvantage. After all, it's not like they'll trust the analysis of a non-conservative like me more than the numerous fellow conservatives who constantly tell them things that turn out not to be true.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:48 PM   #196
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Come in off the ledge, buddy.
No ledge, buddy. Im free...relatively speaking. Im freeing myself of the burden of arguing about it. I have realized that the direction I want this country to go has been rejected by the majority. Im willing to accept it.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:48 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
The point I made, you basically just reiterated.

So, welcome.
No you are ****ing idiot.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:49 PM   #198
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No you are ****ing idiot.
Compelling.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:49 PM   #199
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Umm, yeah. I think that joke went over your head. Pretty sure he was not calling him a nazi. I'm reasonably sure he was equating Rove's role as a mastermind hunkered down and in complete denial. I also heard another version of the same reference from some comedian about, "still having two tank brigades on the eastern front..."

I could be wrong but that's not the way I took it. Maybe you're right, though. But maybe you're just missing the irony...
I'm reasonably sure you hear what you want to hear from Bill Maher.

Maher has never even attempted to hide his disgust for anyone that deigns to disagree with him.

You lack credibility in this discussion if you can't recognize Bill Maher for what he is. He's as hateful and vitriolic a commentator as you will ever see.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:52 PM   #200
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Fair enough -- we clearly have differing opinions on what constitutes a mandate.

To me: if you're winning over half the vote, you've won a mandate for your agenda.

It's a democracy. You need one more yay than you do a nay.
Actual..it isn't. We are a representative republic. Al Gore had a few more yays than nays, but he did not win, did he?
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:52 PM   #201
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I'm reasonably sure you hear what you want to hear from Bill Maher.

Maher has never even attempted to hide his disgust for anyone that deigns to disagree with him.

You lack credibility in this discussion if you can't recognize Bill Maher for what he is. He's as hateful and vitriolic a commentator as you will ever see.
You sound like a very bitter human being. I'm pretty sure you lack the credibility to question my credibility.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:54 PM   #202
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Fair enough.

But I bring up the polls for a reason.

For all your crowing about the media being liberal, part of that crowing was over the course of this election season that the media was reporting on polls in ways that were overtly supportive of the Obama campaign.

You were wrong in that assessment. The media was reporting on the polls accurately. It just didn't fit your preferred narrative so you automatically assumed it was an overt slant in favor of Obama.

I think that's indicative of almost every other subject.
Income inequality?
Illegal immigration?
Healthcare?
Energy?
Foreign policy?
Developments in the Middle East?
Gay rights?

You need to explain how "the media" is treating these subjects any differently than it was treating the poll numbers, which turned out to be dead-on accurate.
Who's 'you' for most of this post?

I was openly concerned with the polling numbers and admitted that there were way too many people that stood to lose way too much credibility for them to all be wrong.

I never believed there were slants to poll numbers - they're freakin' poll numbers. The methodology is available to anyone that cares to look. How can you slant them? They tell you what they're doing.

But they did oversample Democrats. The only question was whether or not they were justified in so doing and if so, to what degree. As far as I was concerned, polls were one of the few things the media has remained transparent on.

As to the rest of it, the debate's been had. You'll continue to see what you want to see (as will I). But the bottom line is that the media is much easier on Obama than it ever was on Bush. Pundits have done simple word choice analyses to show that. It's never what's reported as much as how it's reported. The adulation cannot be ignored.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:54 PM   #203
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Actual..it isn't. We are a representative republic. Al Gore had a few more yays than nays, but he did not win, did he?
He did not. Which I consider undemocratic.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:56 PM   #204
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Who's 'you' for most of this post?

I was openly concerned with the polling numbers and admitted that there were way too many people that stood to lose way too much credibility for them to all be wrong.

I never believed there were slants to poll numbers - they're freakin' poll numbers. The methodology is available to anyone that cares to look. How can you slant them? They tell you what they're doing.

But they did oversample Democrats. The only question was whether or not they were justified in so doing and if so, to what degree. As far as I was concerned, polls were one of the few things the media has remained transparent on.
All due respect, but please explain to me how these two thoughts can sensibly exist in your head simultaneously.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:57 PM   #205
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No ledge, buddy. Im free...relatively speaking. Im freeing myself of the burden of arguing about it. I have realized that the direction I want this country to go has been rejected by the majority. Im willing to accept it.
There will be another POTUS election in 2016. We'll get them then.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:57 PM   #206
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You sound like a very bitter human being. I'm pretty sure you lack the credibility to question my credibility.
Says the guy that assures us all that Bill Maher's just a harmless little jokester and Ann Coulter is a soulless demon.

I don't know you from adam, but I can absolutely speak to your credibility on this issue as one doesn't need to get much beyond your own words to address it. In fact, you've spoken to it yourself with your very first sentence.

I dare call one of your spades a spade, and suddenly I'm a 'very bitter human being'. You had it all along - the right has a monopoly on personal attacks.

But hey, I'm sure you were just telling jokes that went over our heads, right Billy boy?

Good ol' liberals - don't ever change.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:59 PM   #207
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All due respect, but please explain to me how these two thoughts can sensibly exist in your head simultaneously.
'Oversampling' isn't a perjorative, it's a term of art.

If you believe more Democrats will vote than Republicans, you include more of them in your sample. You have therefore oversampled Democrats. Oversampling is nothing more than a relative term; how much of one you have over the other taking a 50/50 baseline.

What the pollsters did was not a slant, it was a projection.

Seems pretty simple to me.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:03 PM   #208
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No ledge, buddy. Im free...relatively speaking. Im freeing myself of the burden of arguing about it. I have realized that the direction I want this country to go has been rejected by the majority. Im willing to accept it.
Sucks doesn't it. Felt the same way after Bush in 2004. And in 2000 when the majority agreed with me but we still lost.

But, you can still come around and straighten us fools out from time to time.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:04 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
'Oversampling' isn't a perjorative, it's a term of art.

If you believe more Democrats will vote than Republicans, you include more of them in your sample. You have therefore oversampled Democrats. Oversampling is nothing more than a relative term; how much of one you have over the other taking a 50/50 baseline.

What the pollsters did was not a slant, it was a projection.

Seems pretty simple to me.
Makes much more sense. Thanks.

You do realize that, at least based off your responses in this thread, you're not the target audience of the OP?
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:04 PM   #210
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There will be another POTUS election in 2016. We'll get them then.
Not unless your party changes its demographics.
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