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Old 11-09-2012, 01:32 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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A tax hike for the wealthy won't kill growth.

According to the CBO.

Right as Congress and the White House get down to negotiating over the fiscal cliff.

In the image below, you can see that of all the things you could extend to avoid the fiscal cliff, extending defense spending gets the biggest bang for your GDP buck.

By far the least bang? You guessed it:



The Bush tax cuts. Especially for the wealthy.

Cutting them out, as a result, is probably the easiest means by which you can get a leg up on this massive deficit.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8A71D020121109

Tax hike for wealthy won't kill growth: CBO
By David Lawder and Kim Dixon
WASHINGTON | Thu Nov 8, 2012 9:03pm EST

(Reuters) - Allowing income tax rates to rise for wealthy Americans, and maintaining rates for the less affluent, would not hurt U.S. economic growth much in 2013, the Congressional Budget Office said on Thursday, stepping into a dispute between Republicans and Democrats over how to resolve the so-called "fiscal cliff."

The report by the authoritative non-partisan arm of Congress is expected to fuel President Barack Obama's demand for higher taxes on the rich, part of his proposal to avoid the full impact of the expiring tax cuts and across-the-board spending reductions set to begin in early 2013 unless Congress acts.

Republicans argue that any tax increases would be devastating to the economy, particularly to small businesses, and to U.S. employment rates.

They have held firm to their position that none of the cuts, which originated during the administration of President George W. Bush, should be allowed to expire.

The CBO said the tax hikes for the wealthy would reduce job growth by around 200,000 jobs, much less than the 700,000 in job losses claimed by Republican Speaker of the House John A. Boehner.

Obama has also stuck to his position, with the White House reiterating on Thursday that the president sees his election victory on Tuesday as an endorsement by voters of his view on higher taxes for the affluent.

"One of the messages that was sent by the American people throughout this campaign is ... (they) clearly chose the president's view of making sure that the wealthiest Americans are asked to do a little bit more in the context of reducing our deficit in a balanced way," senior White House adviser David Plouffe said.

UNCERTAINTY SCARING MARKETS

The disagreement over the tax cuts is a major roadblock to any agreement in Congress, as it is coupled with the spending issues also on the table.

The lack of progress in ending the standoff is spooking global markets, which fell again Thursday in part because of political uncertainty in Washington.

The concern was underscored by the credit rating agency, Standard & Poor's, which said on Thursday it sees an increasing chance that the U.S. economy will go over the cliff next year. But it also said it expects policymakers will probably compromise in time to avoid that outcome.

Analysts at the agency see about a 15 percent chance that political brinkmanship will push the world's largest economy over the fiscal cliff.

With only five days remaining before the U.S. Congress begins its post-election session, top political leaders in Washington provided little new assurance Thursday that they can act in time.

In an interview with ABC Television's Diane Sawyer, Boehner repeated what he has been saying for two years: "Raising tax rates is unacceptable. ... Frankly, it couldn't even pass the House. I'm not sure it could pass the Senate," he said, according to a transcript provided by the network.

The Democratic White House did not respond publicly to an initiative launched on Wednesday by Boehner to get talks going to avoid the cliff. The president is scheduled to make a statement on the economy Friday.

In the absence of concrete developments, the CBO report became the focus of argument Thursday. Reports by the CBO are designed to assist Congress in making difficult fiscal decisions, but they are also used by partisans to bolster their own arguments.

A statement from the Republican-controlled House Ways and Means Committee said the CBO report "confirms that raising taxes on all taxpayers will result in fewer ‘help wanted' signs hanging in the windows of businesses across the country. Job creators agree, and have made it clear, that raising taxes will result in a weaker economy and fewer jobs for the millions of Americans struggling to find work."

Democratic Rep. Chris Van Hollen, ranking member of the House Budget Committee, said the report "underscores the need to prevent the so-called fiscal cliff from harming American families and businesses, and to instead enact a balanced, long-term deficit reduction plan."

The term "balanced" plan is the Democratic code for tax increases.

The tax cuts were enacted during the Bush administration, but were made temporary, in part to reduce the appearance of exploding the already soaring U.S. deficit over the long term.

They were extended in 2010 for two years under an agreement between Republicans and Obama, after Republicans swept the mid-term elections that year and took control of the House.

That extension is running out, just as the trigger date arrives for automatic spending cuts Congress approved in 2011 as part of a deal to avoid a default on U.S. government debt.

VARIOUS SCENARIOS

The report from CBO laid out the economic effects of a number of options that lawmakers will consider as they deal with the fiscal cliff events.

The CBO said extending all of the tax cuts would boost U.S. gross domestic product growth next year by a little less than 1.5 percentage points.

If the tax rates were extended only for individuals earning less than $200,000 and couples earnings less than $250,000, CBO said, growth would rise by 1.25 percent.

Wall Street estimates show third-quarter GDP growth was 2.8 percent. Unemployment is currently at 7.9 percent.

Eliminating the automatic spending cuts to military and domestic programs would add back 0.75 percentage points of growth, as would extending an expiring payroll tax cut and long- term unemployment benefits that are expected to end next year, the CBO said.

But the office also warned of the consequences of taking such actions without reducing deficits that have run at $1 trillion in each of the past four years.

"CBO expects that even if all of the fiscal tightening was eliminated, the economy would remain below its potential and the unemployment rate would remain higher than usual for some time," the report said.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:51 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
And with no group being spared, real spending cuts must also be considered.
right everything is on the table. Military, entitlements etc. Nothing can be off the table if we are really going to ever have a balanced budget again.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:54 PM   #62
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If its not clear by now its not going to be. You misinterpreted my comments as some kind of advocacy for dictatorship. I don't see how you could interpret my comments that way. If my fault, my bad.
Because you wrote shit like this:

We have debated this for two years. We had an election. The time for debate is over. The people voted.

Please explain to me why anyone should read that and think that you AREN'T saying that you think the GOP should just and do what Obama wants without any opposition or debate.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:57 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
right everything is on the table. Military, entitlements etc. Nothing can be off the table if we are really going to ever have a balanced budget again.
WoW! I can't believe you agreed with that.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:03 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Then, like I said, between now and your next shaken Martini, please elaborate what EXACTLY you meant.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:50 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Wow. As the opposition (or enemy to use Obama's vernacular), kindly go **** yourself with a rusty chainsaw. Just because Obama won re-election doesn't mean that those who oppose his policies must suddenly agree with him. If you actually think, you are one ****ed up person.
Damn Donger
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:02 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
We wont go into a recession asking the rich to pay the same tax rate as they did under Clinton.

You want a strong America. Strengthen the middle class, not the rich.

And didnt we have an election? WTF won? Was the tea party elected president and I fell asleep and missed it?

The big red blowhard is such a big red douchebag.



Taxing the rich won't kill growth, it will just cut off one of it's legs.....
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:05 PM   #67
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
So, it "only" kills 200,000 jobs?
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
Losing 200,000 jobs might not kill growth, but it sure as hell does nothing to help growth either, given that the revenue raised is enough to fund less than a week of federal spending.
You're looking at it the wrong way.

We've essentially got to the point we're at now, fiscally, because we've given immense tax relief to the wealthy (as well as everybody else, but the wealthy reap the biggest benefits) and we have a ton of federal spending that a shit ton of jobs rely on, such as teachers and the military complex.

The "Grand Bargain," should we actually achieve one, is going to cut down jobs in one way or another, because it's going to eat into these realities.

So the goal is to cut down the deficit in ways that will harm the GDP the least, and unemployment the least. That's what the CBO is recommending.

And, well... 200,000 jobs by making sure the wealthy get far less tax relief than they've been enjoying, either by repealing Bush's tax cuts or by cutting down on deductions hardcore, is very do-able when you consider all other options. We added 171,000 jobs to the economy in October alone.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:07 PM   #68
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I was just reading that the tax increase on "the rich" that Obama wants (35% to 39%?) will bring in another $70 billion annually maximum. And, according to the above article, cost 200,000 jobs. That sounds good to you?
You're looking to get responsible, fiscally, while administering the least amount of damage to the economy.

Repealing tax cuts to the rich is THE least damaging approach. CBO-confirmed.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:08 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
You're looking at it the wrong way.

We've essentially got to the point we're at now, fiscally, because we've given immense tax relief to the wealthy (as well as everybody else, but the wealthy reap the biggest benefits) and we have a ton of federal spending that a shit ton of jobs rely on, such as teachers and the military complex.

The "Grand Bargain," should we actually achieve one, is going to cut down jobs in one way or another, because it's going to eat into these realities.

So the goal is to cut down the deficit in ways that will harm the GDP the least, and unemployment the least. That's what the CBO is recommending.

And, well... 200,000 jobs by making sure the wealthy get far less tax relief than they've been enjoying, either by repealing Bush's tax cuts or by cutting down on deductions hardcore, is very do-able when you consider all other options. We added 171,000 jobs to the economy in October alone.
300 plus full-time jobs factory in my hometown announced yesterday it's shutting down and "them jobs ain't coming back no more"
Been a mainstay in that community for over 30 years
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:09 PM   #70
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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It would be nice if the Libs would at least call this what it really is, and stop with the misleading rhetoric.
It was designed and periodically extended to be temporary.

At no time was a law passed to make them permanent.

Call that whatever you wish, I don't give a shit. But the vacation's close to being over.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:10 PM   #71
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by stonedstooge View Post
300 plus full-time jobs factory in my hometown announced yesterday it's shutting down and "them jobs ain't coming back no more"
Been a mainstay in that community for over 30 years
I'm sorry to hear that. That's got to be heartbreaking for the community.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:10 PM   #72
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Wow. As the opposition (or enemy to use Obama's vernacular), kindly go **** yourself with a rusty chainsaw. Just because Obama won re-election doesn't mean that those who oppose his policies must suddenly agree with him. If you actually think, you are one ****ed up person.
Calm down. Christ.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:12 PM   #73
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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These are not tax cuts for the rich. These are tax increases on the rich.
They are the expiration of temporary tax cuts for the rich.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:13 PM   #74
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Yes, that's why the Democrats regained control of the House of Representatives.

Oh wait ....
Democrats actually received more House votes than Republicans.

So, you were saying?
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:14 PM   #75
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I'm sorry to hear that. That's got to be heartbreaking for the community.
A lot of people raised their families with the company. It was the top rate type of factory job you could have in my community.
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