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Old 11-11-2012, 09:51 AM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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**OFFICIAL** Illegal Immigration Reform Thread.

You know its coming. As soon as the fiscal cliff is finished, illegal immigration is next.

Sen. Graham and Sen. Shumar have already resumed their illegal immigration talks from two years ago. Both were on the sunday shows talking about the plan. Both are seeing a possible huge bi-partisan deal is now possible based on their earlier work form two years ago.

Main points of the deal:
  • Lock down the border. Spend whatever money and political will to truly stop the flow of people over our borders.
  • A nationwide verification of employment. The idea is to come up with some kind of non forgeable document. A E-Verify for immigrants.
  • Increase legal immigration, especially for scientists, engineers and other fields that benefit America or workers are in short supply, i.e. workers who pick our produce in the fields.
  • Stiff and severe penalties for businesses that hire illegals after the "E-Verify type" system is in place.
  • The Dream act is part of the total package.
  • Every illegal in the country is possible allowed to stay legally in the country. The conditions are:
  1. They must enter into that "E-Verify type" system.
  2. They are allowed to apply for citizenship but they go to the back of the line of people that already have green cards or have already applied for citizenship.
  3. They must pay a fine for entering the country illegally.
  4. They are allowed to stay as long until their citizenship paperwork is finalized, as long as they commit no crimes and pay all taxes that everyone else pays. Failure to so that = immediate deportation.
  5. What crime is deportable is TBD.
  6. Size of the fine is TBD.
The Gang of Six bipartisan proposal.

Today a group of powerful U.S. Senators announced they have agreed to a framework on comprehensive immigration reform. The bipartisan group includes Senators Chuck Schumer (D-NY), Dick Durbin (D-IL), Bob Menendez (D-NJ), Michael Bennett (D-CO), Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Marco Rubio (R-FL), John McCain (R-AZ), and Jeff Flake (R-AZ). The fact that both parties have agreed to the deal gives it much better prospects for passage.

Path to Citizenship
  • The bill would include a “tough, fair, and practical roadmap to address the status of unauthorized immigrants in the United States.” At the same time, the framework states that this path to citizenship would be “contingent upon our success in securing our borders and addressing visa overstays.”
  • The bill would require those currently living in the United States illegally to register with the government, pass a background check, and settle their debt to society by paying a fine and back taxes. Individuals with a serious criminal background or those who “pose a threat to our national security” would be ineligible and subject to deportation.
  • Current restrictions keeping non-immigrants from accessing “public benefits” would also apply to those who are on the path the citizenship.
  • Once they have passed the background check and paid their “debt to society”, those on “probationary legal status” will be placed at the back of the line for prospective immigrants. These probationary immigrants will then have to “pass another background check, pay taxes, learn English and civics, demonstrate a history of work in the United States, and current employment” in order to apply for lawful permanent residency.
  • Exemptions would be made for minors who did not knowingly violate U.S. immigration laws when they entered the United States and agricultural workers.
Border Security
  • The Bill would increase Border Patrol efforts by “providing them with the latest technology, infrastructure, and personnel needed.” The legislation would increase the number of Border Patrol agents and the number of unmanned aerial vehicles, or drones, monitoring the border.
  • The bill would “strengthen prohibitions against racial profiling and inappropriate use of force” by increasing the training of border patrol agents and increasing oversight.
  • The bill would create an “entry-exit system” that would track whether all persons entering the United States on a temporary visa leave the country as required by law.
  • The bill would create a commission of “governors, attorneys general, and community leaders living along the Southwest border to monitor the progress of securing our border and make recommendations.”
Skilled Worker Immigration
  • The bill would develop a “rational legal immigration system” to reduce the backlog of visas which force families to live apart and keep specialized jobs unfilled.
  • The bill would also award a green card to immigrants who receive a PhD or Master’s degree in science, technology, engineering, or math from an American university.
Employment Verification
  • The bill would implement a “fast and reliable method to confirm whether new hires are legally authorized to work in the United States.”
  • The bill would place stiff fines and criminal penalties on employers who knowingly hire undocumented workers.
Low Skilled Workers
  • The bill would allow “more lower-skilled immigrants to come here when our economy is creating jobs, and fewer when our economy is not creating jobs.”
  • Employers who want to hire lower-skilled immigrants would have to demonstrate that they could not successfully recruit an American and that the hiring of the immigrant will not displace American workers

Last edited by BigRedChief; 01-28-2013 at 04:14 PM..
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:04 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
You know its coming. As soon as the fiscal cliff is finished, illegal immigration is next.

Sen. Graham and Sen. Shumar have already resumed their illegal immigration talks from two years ago. Both were on the sunday shows talking about the plan. Both are seeing a possible huge bi-partisan deal is now possible based on their earlier work form two years ago.

Main points of the deal:
  • Lock down the border. Spend whatever money and political will to truly stop the flow of people over our borders.
  • A nationwide verification of employment. The idea is to come up with some kind of non forgeable document. A E-Verify for immigrants.
  • Increase legal immigration, especially for scientists, engineers and other fields that benefit America or workers are in short supply, i.e. workers who pick our produce in the fields.
  • Stiff and severe penalties for businesses that hire illegals after the "E-Verify type" system is in place.
  • The Dream act is part of the total package.
  • Every illegal in the country is possible allowed to stay legally in the country. The conditions are:
  1. They must enter into that "E-Verify type" system.
  2. They are allowed to apply for citizenship but they go to the back of the line of people that already have green cards.
  3. They must pay a fine for entering the country illegally.
  4. They are allowed to stay as long until their citizenship paperwork is finalized, as long as they commit no crimes and pay all taxes that everyone else pays. Failure to so that = immediate deportation.
  5. What crime is deportable is TBD.
  6. Size of the fine is TBD.
This doesn't really cover sending 3/4 of their money back home.
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:10 AM   #3
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This doesn't really cover sending 3/4 of their money back home.
Since when does America dictate to individuals what people can and can't do with their after tax income?
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:16 AM   #4
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Reagan did it. Grant them amnesty & hope that they vote for your party.
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:25 AM   #5
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Reagan did it. Grant them amnesty & hope that they vote for your party.
There is no way that either party is going to allow the other party to take full credit for immigration reform.

It's a demographic fright train. Everyone wants on board.
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:31 AM   #6
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There is no way that either party is going to allow the other party to take full credit for immigration reform.

It's a demographic fright train. Everyone wants on board.
"Estoy totalmente/absolutamente de acuerdo (contigo)".
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:04 AM   #7
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I don't like the Dream Act. If they want to say tomorrow that they'll let in twice as many immigrants, legally, I'd say fine. The Dream Act just seems to encourage illegal immigration.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:13 AM   #8
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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I don't like the Dream Act. If they want to say tomorrow that they'll let in twice as many immigrants, legally, I'd say fine. The Dream Act just seems to encourage illegal immigration.
My assumption after reading what Shumer and Graham are saying is that the Dream act being included is a grandfathered part of the deal.

It applies only to those kids already brought here by their parents. It doesn't apply to future immigrants.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:30 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
You know its coming. As soon as the fiscal cliff is finished, illegal immigration is next.

Sen. Graham and Sen. Shumar have already resumed their illegal immigration talks from two years ago. Both were on the sunday shows talking about the plan. Both are seeing a possible huge bi-partisan deal is now possible based on their earlier work form two years ago.

Main points of the deal:
  • Lock down the border. Spend whatever money and political will to truly stop the flow of people over our borders.
  • A nationwide verification of employment. The idea is to come up with some kind of non forgeable document. A E-Verify for immigrants.
  • Increase legal immigration, especially for scientists, engineers and other fields that benefit America or workers are in short supply, i.e. workers who pick our produce in the fields.
  • Stiff and severe penalties for businesses that hire illegals after the "E-Verify type" system is in place.
  • The Dream act is part of the total package.
  • Every illegal in the country is possible allowed to stay legally in the country. The conditions are:
  1. They must enter into that "E-Verify type" system.
  2. They are allowed to apply for citizenship but they go to the back of the line of people that already have green cards or have already applied for citizenship.
  3. They must pay a fine for entering the country illegally.
  4. They are allowed to stay as long until their citizenship paperwork is finalized, as long as they commit no crimes and pay all taxes that everyone else pays. Failure to so that = immediate deportation.
  5. What crime is deportable is TBD.
  6. Size of the fine is TBD.
The first point point MUST happen, or the flow will increase just like it did with Reagan. I'd also require speaking and writing proficiently in English.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:33 AM   #10
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The first point point MUST happen, or the flow will increase just like it did with Reagan. I'd also require speaking and writing proficiently in English.
That is probably not going to happen.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:35 AM   #11
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The first point point MUST happen, or the flow will increase just like it did with Reagan. I'd also require speaking and writing proficiently in English.
Agree on the first point. Without it, everything else falls apart.

Second point is never going to happen. You know that's not ever going to happen, correct?
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:54 PM   #12
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Since when does America dictate to individuals what people can and can't do with their after tax income?
Wow, really? Did you just ask that? Can't buy sodas larger than 16 oz. in New York, for starters.

MUST buy health insurance for another.

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Old 11-11-2012, 12:59 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
You know its coming. As soon as the fiscal cliff is finished, illegal immigration is next.

Sen. Graham and Sen. Shumar have already resumed their illegal immigration talks from two years ago. Both were on the sunday shows talking about the plan. Both are seeing a possible huge bi-partisan deal is now possible based on their earlier work form two years ago.

Main points of the deal:
  • Lock down the border. Spend whatever money and political will to truly stop the flow of people over our borders.
  • A nationwide verification of employment. The idea is to come up with some kind of non forgeable document. A E-Verify for immigrants.
  • Increase legal immigration, especially for scientists, engineers and other fields that benefit America or workers are in short supply, i.e. workers who pick our produce in the fields.
  • Stiff and severe penalties for businesses that hire illegals after the "E-Verify type" system is in place.
  • The Dream act is part of the total package.
  • Every illegal in the country is possible allowed to stay legally in the country. The conditions are:
  1. They must enter into that "E-Verify type" system.
  2. They are allowed to apply for citizenship but they go to the back of the line of people that already have green cards or have already applied for citizenship.
  3. They must pay a fine for entering the country illegally.
  4. They are allowed to stay as long until their citizenship paperwork is finalized, as long as they commit no crimes and pay all taxes that everyone else pays. Failure to so that = immediate deportation.
  5. What crime is deportable is TBD.
  6. Size of the fine is TBD.
Point #4 is a huge problem. What it basically says is anyone can come into the country illegally, then admit they did, apply for citizenship and stay as long as they want. Plus we have seen time and time again that "crimes" do not get people deported.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:20 PM   #14
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That is probably not going to happen.
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Agree on the first point. Without it, everything else falls apart.

Second point is never going to happen. You know that's not ever going to happen, correct?
Leaving aside whether or not it could ever happen, do you guys think it would be a good thing for our country to give those who have gone to the effort to learn our language preferential position when it comes to legal immigration? If not, why not?

How about preference for skilled/educated people over the unskilled/uneducated?
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:31 PM   #15
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Leaving aside whether or not it could ever happen, do you guys think it would be a good thing for our country to give those who have gone to the effort to learn our language preferential position when it comes to legal immigration? If not, why not?

How about preference for skilled/educated people over the unskilled/uneducated?
I would agree that preferential treatment for those passing a basic language test and having education would be a good thing. I don't know about the skilled because you would have to compare the skills they acquired to our standards.

I think the most important thing, and I might get blasted on this, is for them not to be a drain. What I don't want to see is people crossing the borders and squatting on welfare . I don't have a problem with some initial help and I do realize that in some situations it might be more than others, but all things being equal they shouldn't come here to go from unsubsidized poverty to subsidized poverty.
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