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Old 07-20-2012, 10:41 AM  
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The Fiscal Cliff Approacheth

In an effort to make this thread sticky-worthy, I am going to update this OP to keep casual glancers informed.

This post is the official one-stop shopping of the key points/developments of the fiscal cliff negotiations.

Far as I understand, the fiscal cliff:

1. Gets rid of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.
2. Gets rid of the Bush tax cuts for everybody else.
3. Slashes defense spending by something like $500 billion.
4. Slashes domestic programs like the NIH, Head Start, and medicine/drug care for the poor by $500 billion.

The new idea is for Democrats to allow the cliff to hit, then immediately introduce a bill that would bring 2, 4, and some of 3 back. But not 1.

Here is a chart detailing exactly what the fiscal cliff is going to do, financially:

Spoiler!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
New CBO projection: if the fiscal cliff hits, we are in another recession, and lose two million jobs.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...87L0JV20120822
The poor would be hurt by the fiscal cliff:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Overall, if the tax breaks from the 2009 stimulus are allowed to expire—the EITC and Child Tax Credit expansions, along with American Opportunity Credit for college tuition—the poorest 20 percent of Americans would see their taxes go up by $209 on average, reducing their after-tax income by 1.9 percent, according to the Tax Policy Center.
As would the middle class:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
According to estimates by the Tax Policy Center, more than half of all married couples will owe an additional tax of around $4,000 unless Congress acts. And more than a third of families with children will fall subject to the AMT, with parents of three or more children facing an extra tax of $4,700.

Among married couples with at least two children and adjusted gross income between $75,000 and $100,000, the center estimates that 84 percent will face a significantly higher tax bill this year because of the AMT.
There seems to be some consensus between the parties that substantial revenues want to be raised. Boehner and the GOP hopes that's through limiting tax deductions rather than tax raises.

Obama's opening offer, essentially:

Quote:
  • Allow the Bush tax cuts on high earners to expire. $849 billion
  • Limit itemized deductions to 28 percent, close some loopholes and deductions on high earners, eliminate tax breaks for oil and gas companies, eliminate the carried interest loophole, plus a few other items. $584 billion
  • Create a special "Buffett Rule" tax rate for millionaires. $47 billion
  • Restore the estate tax to 2009 levels. $143 billion
  • Limit corporate income shifting to low-tax countries. $148 billion
  • Other miscellaneous tax increases and reductions. About -$200 billion
  • Total: $1.6 trillion

Last edited by Direckshun; 11-14-2012 at 09:54 AM..
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:13 AM   #121
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Another, excellent overview of what the Fiscal Cliff actually is.

Scroll down to the bolded parts.

http://www.vpr.net/npr/164797987/

How The Fiscal Cliff Would Hit The Economy
Marilyn Geewax
Sunday, 11/11/12 4:05pm

This week, President Obama will meet with congressional leaders to begin working out a deal to avert a budget calamity commonly known as the fiscal cliff.

Economists are unanimous in saying that if the leaders fail to keep the country from going over the "cliff," both the stock and labor markets will fairly quickly go "splat."

To keep that from happening, Congress must pass legislation to stop or delay or phase in looming budgetary changes. That phrase "fiscal cliff" refers to a massive collection of automatic tax increases and spending cuts that kick in at year's end. If they are all allowed to take full effect, it would be like tying a $600 billion weight to the economy.

The problem is that Democrats want to fix some of the issues by increasing taxes on the wealthiest Americans, and Republicans oppose hikes in tax rates.

"We can't just cut our way to prosperity," Obama said Friday. "We have to combine spending cuts with revenue and that means asking the wealthiest Americans to pay a little more in taxes."

Before Obama spoke, House Speaker John Boehner, the top GOP leader in Washington, said House Republicans won't agree to higher rates but would be open to limiting tax breaks to raise revenues. "It's clear there are all kinds of deductions, some of which make sense, some of which don't," he said.

The two men seemed to be leaving themselves room to negotiate. Whether they will compromise is unknown. But economists and investment experts say one thing is clear: that failure to do so would derail the recovery.

"Absolutely" there will be an economic reversal unless Congress acts, said Garth Friesen, who serves on the Federal Reserve Bank of New York's Investor Advisory Committee. He also is a top investment officer for III Associates, a hedge fund.

Every American who earns a paycheck or owns stock will get hit with higher taxes, Friesen said. "That's across the board — from the lowest taxpayers to the wealthiest," he said. "It's everybody."

And while some of the changes may take a while to be fully felt, many are "like a light switch," Friesen said. The tax hikes will switch on as New Year's parties end.

IHS Global Insight, a forecasting firm, says that if Congress and the White House were to hit an impasse, it "would be a recipe for turmoil in the financial markets."

Here are some ways that that economy will get hit:

Payroll tax cut. To give consumers more cash to spend, Congress lowered payroll taxes by 2 percentage points during 2011 and 2012. For someone making $50,000 a year, that worked out to about $20 a week. If the tax holiday ends abruptly, take-home pay will immediately shrink.

Bush tax cuts. On Jan. 1, all of the tax cuts that were phased in, starting in 2001, will expire. That will mean higher taxes on both income and investments.

Unemployment benefits. Ever since the economy tanked in 2008, Congress has been extending benefits beyond the standard 26 weeks. Those extensions will end in the new year, so lots of job seekers will be on their own in January.

Depreciation incentives. Businesses will lose special depreciation allowances that encouraged capital equipment purchases.

Spending cuts. Unless Congress changes the law, automatic spending cuts worth $1.2 trillion over a decade will kick in. They hit particularly hard at military spending, so many people who work for contractors will lose jobs.

What would all of that do to the economy? A study by J.P. Morgan Asset Management said that "this amount of fiscal drag would push the U.S. economy into recession."

And that, the company concluded, would "lead to a very unhappy U.S. population."

As negotiations begin this week, here are terms that are likely to be used a lot.
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:07 AM   #122
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Hoo boy.

Talk about a cold dose of reality.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8AA02620121111

U.S. Congress created this cliff and may now plunge off it
By Richard Cowan
WASHINGTON | Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:08am EST

(Reuters) - The "fiscal cliff," a metaphor drawn from nature, was actually created by members of the U.S. Congress, who designed it to be so horrible that they and the president would come to their senses and avert it in the nick of time.

That time is now with the start this week of a lame-duck session of Congress. But it is not at all certain that Republicans and Democrats are ready to make the compromises necessary to undo the trap they set in August 2011.

With all the time available since then, optimists assumed that Congress and President Barack Obama would return after last week's elections with a plan - perhaps a temporary fix - to avoid the $600 billion in tax increases and budget cuts set to start in January that threaten to throw the economy back into recession.

But they didn't.

Some also assumed the election would give one party or the other an edge that could break the impasse over how to reduce the nation's deficit.

It didn't.

Both sides say publicly and privately that they have the advantage - and a mandate from voters to do things their way. It remains to be seen whether such assertions are just opening moves.

Once again, optimists assume the parties will rescue themselves - and the country - from the crisis they created.

But confidence is low, which is one reason global markets tumbled last week.

CAN THIS MARRIAGE BE SAVED?

A different metaphor might now present itself, drawn from life.

For 16 months, Democrats and Republicans behaved like a husband and wife in an ugly divorce proceeding, not speaking to each other except through invective.

Now they will see if their troubled marriage can be salvaged, for the sake of the children, which in this case is the U.S. economy. The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office reiterated last week that jumping off the cliff would boost the jobless rate to 9 percent from the current 7.9 percent.

For Obama, who won four more years in office in Tuesday's election, this is his moment to bring a "balanced approach" to healing the nation's fiscal problems.

In the Democrat's eyes, that means keeping lower tax rates for the poor and middle class, while forcing the rich to pay more income taxes. White House spokesman Jay Carney renewed the president's vow to veto legislation that simply extends the tax cuts, which originated during the administration of President George W. Bush.

If Republicans were to agree to the higher tax rates on the wealthy, that would open the door to deals on a new round of spending cuts, including sensitive "entitlement" programs, such as the Medicare healthcare program for the elderly, some Democrats say privately.

The top U.S. Republican, House of Representatives Speaker John Boehner, does not see it that way. He has long argued that raising taxes on top earners would hurt small-business hiring and slow an already sluggish economy.

With voters giving Republicans another two years to rule the House, Boehner argues it would be a mistake for Obama to conclude that he has a mandate from voters to hike income taxes.

"Instead of raising tax rates on the American people and accepting the damage it will do to our economy, let's start to actually solve the problem," Boehner said in a Saturday radio address.

"Let's focus on tax reform that closes special-interest loopholes and lowers tax rates," he added.

The problem is that tax reform will take months, if not years, to do in Congress, and lawmakers have only about six weeks to avert the fiscal cliff by at least coming up with a short-term compromise and addressing more radical reform in the following months.

A senior Senate Democratic aide said Republicans were "underestimating the bully pulpit he (Obama) has. He's going to focus on this and this alone for the next two months. They're underestimating his ability to sway the American people" if they block a tax hike on the rich.

The Democratic aide said that if Obama produced a new plan for avoiding the fiscal cliff, including higher income taxes on the rich, "Boehner's reaction to that document will be the most pivotal point" in the upcoming fight.

Will Boehner reject it as a dead-end plan, or will he find "good things in there and say, 'Let's negotiate,'" the aide said.

A senior Senate Republican aide argued his party had the advantage. If negotiations break down over raising taxes on upper-income groups, thus causing all income tax rates to rise in January, "Will Obama really want to start his new term by pushing the economy into recession?" the aide said.

With the election over, Democrats and Republicans in Congress anticipate that Obama will offer up new ideas toward a compromise, possibly before he departs for a trip to Myanmar at week's end.

GAME OF CHICKEN

Despite elections that were supposed to break Washington's deadlock over fixing the economy, the post-election world still has fundamental disagreements, even if the rhetoric has cooled.

Some in Congress argue there is always a way to find compromise, or "wiggle room," as one Senate Republican leadership aide called it.

Instead of a $250,000 threshold for raising income taxes, he threw out $500,000, although quickly adding, "We might even push to get it higher than $500,000."

But that too poses problems. Boehner and Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell, who faces re-election in 2014, could stir up fierce opposition from their right-wing members, including Tea Party activists, if they back any income tax increase.

Furthermore, Democrats have squirmed over the prospects of arguing to lower-income constituents that someone earning $500,000 a year or more is middle-class.

Still others point to a different approach as a way out. Instead of raising income taxes on the rich, they see a fiscal cliff compromise in ending some other tax benefits that the well-off now enjoy - something to which Boehner says he is open.

There are plenty of those, ranging from breaks for corporate jets to oil industry manufacturing credits. While Democrats favor ending those breaks too, they very much want to kill off for good the lower income taxes for the rich and capture the $850 billion in revenues over 10 years.

All those cross-currents lead some to believe that lawmakers will be unable to bridge their differences during the post-election session that begins on Tuesday.

In September 2008, when the House voted down the banking bailout plan known as TARP, it took a sharp plunge in the financial markets to get Congress to change its mind.

"I for one have come reluctantly to the idea that we might need something as jarring as going off the fiscal cliff to bring a compromise," said Jim Manley, a former aide to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:10 AM   #123
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Should we hit the fiscal cliff, we'd follow the blue line.

The debt crisis would most likely be over. But we'd plunge into another recession.
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:16 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post


Should we hit the fiscal cliff, we'd follow the blue line.

The debt crisis would most likely be over. But we'd plunge into another recession.
Bring it. We all need to get through this thing together; no one segment should have to bear a larger percentage of the responsibility than any other.
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:20 AM   #125
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Krugman argues to let the cliff hit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/09/op...ke-a-deal.html

Let’s Not Make a Deal
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: November 8, 2012

To say the obvious: Democrats won an amazing victory. Not only did they hold the White House despite a still-troubled economy, in a year when their Senate majority was supposed to be doomed, they actually added seats.

Nor was that all: They scored major gains in the states. Most notably, California — long a poster child for the political dysfunction that comes when nothing can get done without a legislative supermajority — not only voted for much-needed tax increases, but elected, you guessed it, a Democratic supermajority.

But one goal eluded the victors. Even though preliminary estimates suggest that Democrats received somewhat more votes than Republicans in Congressional elections, the G.O.P. retains solid control of the House thanks to extreme gerrymandering by courts and Republican-controlled state governments. And Representative John Boehner, the speaker of the House, wasted no time in declaring that his party remains as intransigent as ever, utterly opposed to any rise in tax rates even as it whines about the size of the deficit.

So President Obama has to make a decision, almost immediately, about how to deal with continuing Republican obstruction. How far should he go in accommodating the G.O.P.’s demands?

My answer is, not far at all. Mr. Obama should hang tough, declaring himself willing, if necessary, to hold his ground even at the cost of letting his opponents inflict damage on a still-shaky economy. And this is definitely no time to negotiate a “grand bargain” on the budget that snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.

In saying this, I don’t mean to minimize the very real economic dangers posed by the so-called fiscal cliff that is looming at the end of this year if the two parties can’t reach a deal. Both the Bush-era tax cuts and the Obama administration’s payroll tax cut are set to expire, even as automatic spending cuts in defense and elsewhere kick in thanks to the deal struck after the 2011 confrontation over the debt ceiling. And the looming combination of tax increases and spending cuts looks easily large enough to push America back into recession.

Nobody wants to see that happen. Yet it may happen all the same, and Mr. Obama has to be willing to let it happen if necessary.

Why? Because Republicans are trying, for the third time since he took office, to use economic blackmail to achieve a goal they lack the votes to achieve through the normal legislative process. In particular, they want to extend the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, even though the nation can’t afford to make those tax cuts permanent and the public believes that taxes on the rich should go up — and they’re threatening to block any deal on anything else unless they get their way. So they are, in effect, threatening to tank the economy unless their demands are met.

Mr. Obama essentially surrendered in the face of similar tactics at the end of 2010, extending low taxes on the rich for two more years. He made significant concessions again in 2011, when Republicans threatened to create financial chaos by refusing to raise the debt ceiling. And the current potential crisis is the legacy of those past concessions.

Well, this has to stop — unless we want hostage-taking, the threat of making the nation ungovernable, to become a standard part of our political process.

So what should he do? Just say no, and go over the cliff if necessary.

It’s worth pointing out that the fiscal cliff isn’t really a cliff. It’s not like the debt-ceiling confrontation, where terrible things might well have happened right away if the deadline had been missed. This time, nothing very bad will happen to the economy if agreement isn’t reached until a few weeks or even a few months into 2013. So there’s time to bargain.

More important, however, is the point that a stalemate would hurt Republican backers, corporate donors in particular, every bit as much as it hurt the rest of the country. As the risk of severe economic damage grew, Republicans would face intense pressure to cut a deal after all.

Meanwhile, the president is in a far stronger position than in previous confrontations. I don’t place much stock in talk of “mandates,” but Mr. Obama did win re-election with a populist campaign, so he can plausibly claim that Republicans are defying the will of the American people. And he just won his big election and is, therefore, far better placed than before to weather any political blowback from economic troubles — especially when it would be so obvious that these troubles were being deliberately inflicted by the G.O.P. in a last-ditch attempt to defend the privileges of the 1 percent.

Most of all, standing up to hostage-taking is the right thing to do for the health of America’s political system.

So stand your ground, Mr. President, and don’t give in to threats. No deal is better than a bad deal.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:39 PM   #126
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Republicans seem willing to end oil industry tax breaks.

Holy shit -- reason may just find a way. Applause.

This is a must read for "inside baseball" folks.

http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-...al-cliff-talks

Oil industry tax breaks face the ‘fiscal cliff’
By Ben Geman and Zack Colman
11/12/12 07:28 PM ET

The oil industry’s long record of success in defending its tax breaks faces new tests as lawmakers and the White House negotiate to avoid the “fiscal cliff.”

House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) won’t rule out targeting oil-industry deductions in a broad deal to avoid the higher income tax rates and deep automatic spending cuts set to take effect in 2013.

“The details will have to be negotiated. Not going to speculate on what a final package may look like,” Boehner spokesman Kevin Smith told The Hill.

The Speaker is seeking a deal with the White House that would include new tax revenues without raising rates, a stance that has shifted the focus to the deductions and loopholes in the IRS code.

The American Petroleum Institute (API), the industry’s biggest lobbying group, is bracing for fresh attacks against incentives that oil companies say are nourishing the nation’s oil-and-gas production boom.

The group is announcing a TV and print ad campaign Tuesday aimed at shoring up support for the billions of dollars in deductions that companies receive on drilling costs, income from domestic projects and other areas.

API CEO Jack Gerard told reporters last week that lawmakers shouldn’t tinker with specific industries’ deductions outside of comprehensive tax code reform, which he believed would begin in earnest next year.

“The oil-and-gas industry will not be singled out for punitive treatment,” Gerard said.

Republicans and oil-state Democrats in recent years have helped the industry fight off an array of White House- and Democratic leadership-led efforts to nix the deductions.

Some bills have targeted only the “Big Five” oil companies, such as Exxon and Chevron, while others would reach independent producers too. All have failed.

But Boehner, who is battling calls from Democrats to raise tax rates on the wealthy, has taken a more conciliatory tone since President Obama’s reelection while signaling openness to raising revenues.

Capitol Hill Democrats, meanwhile, are readying fresh attacks against the oil industry.

Aides to Democrats including Rep. Sandy Levin (Mich.), the top Democrat on the House Ways and Means Committee, and Sen. Robert Menendez (N.J.) said Monday that they would seek to end oil-industry tax breaks in talks regarding the fiscal cliff.

And while any final deal will get hammered out behind closed doors, environmentalists and perhaps some Democrats will seek to ramp up public pressure over what they call unneeded taxpayer support for a profitable industry.

A spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said bringing a bill to the floor in the lame-duck session that strips the oil industry of its deductions is a “possibility.”

Josh Saks, legislative director with the National Wildlife Federation, said the GOP-dominated House is a tougher challenge than the Senate when it comes to building support for nixing the breaks. He said his group is looking to work with Rep. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.), who will move over to the Senate in January, and Rep. Steven LaTourette (R-Ohio), a centrist who is not returning to Congress.

Oil Change International, which opposes fossil-fuel subsidies, and allied groups are planning a TV and online ad campaign during the lame-duck session that calls for ending the tax breaks in a fiscal deal.

Steve Kretzmann, the executive director of Oil Change International, said the political landscape has become more conducive to ending various forms of taxpayer support for the fossil fuel industry.

“I think on the shortlist of things that may be politically possible to raise revenues from, the very profitable and very successful fossil-fuel industry in the United States is on it,” he said. “There is political space, for sure.”

Market analysts are predicting the industry deductions will be at risk as the fiscal-cliff negotiations unfold.

“[T]ax incentives for oil companies that encourage investment may return to the focus as well,” Moody’s said in a wide-ranging post-election analysis Monday, noting White House opposition to various deductions.

“The administration believes the energy industry needs no assistance at a time of tight federal budgets and disputes over government spending. The Obama administration may try to end tax incentives for [exploration and production] companies, removing depletion allowances and deductions for intangible drilling costs for [exploration and production] companies,” Moody’s said.

But it remains unclear what specific industry deductions might be up for discussion.

While some tax break repeal proposals in recent years would only target major integrated companies, the White House’s fiscal 2013 budget plan called for raising roughly $40 billion over 10 years with a plan that would hit “Big Oil” and, in some cases, independent producers.

The White House plan would repeal the so-called percentage depletion allowance, which isn’t available to the big integrated companies, as well as repeal expensing of “intangible” drilling costs, which is fully available to independent companies and partially for the others, among other provisions.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:42 PM   #127
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Unlike the piece I linked to just a few posts ago, Matt Yglesias simply doesn't think there's any chance the country dives off the cliff.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/..._tax_cuts.html

John Boehner Is Bluffing On Taxes
By Matthew Yglesias
Posted Monday, Nov. 12, 2012, at 7:40 PM ET

My position is that when it comes to the looming expiration of the Bush tax cuts, John Boehner is bluffing. If Obama holds firm and refuses to sign a full extension, then we'll get a new high-tax baseline in the new year at which point Boehner will agree to an Obama middle class tax cut package. To be sure, he'll probably insist on a face-saving modification or two to whatever Obama proposes and unless Obama is a fool he'll let Boehner save some face. But fundamentally, if we go "over the fiscal cliff" we're not going to end up at the bottom of anything—we'll just end up with roughly Obama's policy preferences.

Josh Barro, uncharacteristically, has this all wrong:

Quote:
Democrats cannot force Republicans’ hand unless they are more willing than Republicans to let all the Bush tax cuts expire. And they won’t be. A full expiration might well cause a new recession, which would be even more politically damaging for the Barack Obama administration than for congressional Republicans. Congress is already about as unpopular as it can become, and Republicans know they are not going to get their legislative agenda enacted in the next two years anyway. But a new recession would greatly interfere with Obama’s second-term plans.

The situation is essentially the same as it was in 2010: Republicans are prepared to incur significant political costs to defend their position on the top tax rate issue, and Democrats cannot accept the economic damage that would come from a major short-term tax increase. As the party more willing to go off the cliff, Republicans will get their way. The fact that Democrats are coming off a strong electoral outcome does not matter.
This is mistaken. There will be no recession unless the GOP refuses to pass middle class tax cuts. And they won't refuse to pass middle class tax cuts. It's true that Obama can't force them to pass middle class tax cuts. They'll pass them because they'll want to pass them. Why will they want to pass them? Well, because Obama's proposal for middle class tax cuts happens to substantially reduce rich people's tax bills. The whole debate right now is over the marginal rate applied to income above the $250,000 threshold. The so-called "middle class" tax cuts regard the rates paid at lower brackets. But rich people pay those middle class rates too. Whether you have $45,000 or $450,000 or even $4.5 million in taxable income the "middle class" tax cuts cut your taxes. And Republicans will want those tax cuts.

What made the 2010 lame duck session different is that Obama had a substantial non-tax agenda. Agreeing to a deal on tax cuts let him pass the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell (recall that at the time Obama was opposed to marriage equality, so it was crucial to have a deliverable to gay backers) and get START II and get some stimulative measures in the form of payroll tax cuts and Unemployment Insurance extensions. And in exchange, he didn't really give anything up. His leverage was intact in the event of reelection, and taxes would have just been cut if he lost. It was a pretty solid deal.

But heading into the winter of 2012-2013 there's nothing comparable to the DADT and START II issues that gives Obama an incentive to achieve a resolution during the lame duck. And once we're already at the new baseline, Republicans will agree to middle class tax cuts for the usual reason Republicans do things—doing so will make the rich richer.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:43 PM   #128
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somebody act like you are actually reading all of this shit tl/dnr-eckshun posts, make her feel good.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:13 PM   #129
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Peter Schiff has it right

It's all a bunch of charged rhetoric because our overlord, the federal govt, won't have more money to mess things up.
"So what exactly is this looming menace, and why is it so dangerous?
Stripped of its rhetorically charged language the fiscal cliff is simply a legal trigger that will trim the deficit in 2013 by automatically implementing spending cuts and tax increases. In other words, the government will spend less, and more of what it does spend will be paid for with taxes rather than debt. Isn't this exactly what both parties, and the public, more or less want? The fiscal cliff means that the federal budget deficit will be immediately cut in half, shrinking to approximately $641 billion in 2013 from the approximately $1.1 trillion in 2012. What is so terrible about that? I would argue that there is a greater danger in avoiding the cliff than driving over it. "
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:15 PM   #130
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Like I said before, the best thing for the country is for good men to do nothing.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:27 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
The only way out of this mess is to spread the pain around. Everyone needs to chip in and sacrifice. Just like you cant cut enough spending to get a balanced budget. You cant tax your way to a balanced budget.
Declare bankruptcy, budget balanced by a judge.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:12 PM   #132
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
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Declare bankruptcy, budget balanced by a judge.
Not bad. But all those programs are still there and we'd be back in the same place in a short period of time. That's how much govt has been added.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:24 PM   #133
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
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Interesting strategy... Obama met with top political movers-and-shakers on the left:
  • Mary Kay Henry, president of the Service Employees International Union
  • Lee Saunders, president of the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees
  • Dennis Van Roekel, president of the National Education Association
  • Rich Trumka, president of the AFL-CIO
  • Neera Tanden, president of the Center for American Progress
  • John Podesta, chairman of the Center for American Progress
  • Bob Greenstein, president of Center for Budget and Policy Priorities
  • Laura Burton Capps, managing director of the Common Purpose Project
  • Max Richtman, chief executive of National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare
  • Justin Ruben, executive director of MoveOn.org
  • Deepak Bhargava, executive director of the Center for Community Change
Tomorrow, he's meeting with top Republican CEOs:
  • Honeywell International Inc. Chief Executive David Cote
  • General Electric Co. Chief Executive Jeffrey Immelt
  • Michael Duke, chief executive of Wal-Mart Stores Inc.
  • Mark Bertolini, chief executive of Aetna Inc.
  • Ursula Burns, chief executive of Xerox Corp.
  • Kenneth I. Chenault, chief executive of American Express Co.
  • David Cote, chief executive of Honeywell International Inc.
  • Jeff Immelt, chief executive of General Electric Co.
  • Andrew Liveris, chief executive of the Dow Chemical Co.
  • Robert McDonald, chief executive of Proctor & Gamble Co.
  • Alan Mulally, chief executive of Ford Motor Co.
  • Indra Nooyi, chief executive of PepsiCo Inc.
  • Ginni Rometty, chief executive of International Business Machines Corp.
  • John Watson, chief executive of Chevron Corp.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:37 PM   #134
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If there is a God in heaven, lightning will hit Krugman. Good lord Diwteck, cant you find anyone better than this nitwit to idolize?
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:22 PM   #135
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
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Negotiations are on.

The White House starts big.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...=djemalertNEWS

Obama Sets Steep Tax Target
President to Seek $1.6 Trillion More in Revenue, Double Level From 2011 Talks.
BY JANET HOOK AND CAROL E. LEE

President Barack Obama will begin budget negotiations with congressional leaders Friday by calling for $1.6 trillion in additional tax revenue over the next decade, far more than Republicans are likely to accept and double the $800 billion discussed in talks with GOP leaders during the summer of 2011.

Mr. Obama, in a meeting Tuesday with union leaders and other liberal activists, also pledged to hang tough in seeking tax increases on wealthy Americans.
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