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Old 11-11-2012, 09:51 AM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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**OFFICIAL** Illegal Immigration Reform Thread.

You know its coming. As soon as the fiscal cliff is finished, illegal immigration is next.

Sen. Graham and Sen. Shumar have already resumed their illegal immigration talks from two years ago. Both were on the sunday shows talking about the plan. Both are seeing a possible huge bi-partisan deal is now possible based on their earlier work form two years ago.

Main points of the deal:
  • Lock down the border. Spend whatever money and political will to truly stop the flow of people over our borders.
  • A nationwide verification of employment. The idea is to come up with some kind of non forgeable document. A E-Verify for immigrants.
  • Increase legal immigration, especially for scientists, engineers and other fields that benefit America or workers are in short supply, i.e. workers who pick our produce in the fields.
  • Stiff and severe penalties for businesses that hire illegals after the "E-Verify type" system is in place.
  • The Dream act is part of the total package.
  • Every illegal in the country is possible allowed to stay legally in the country. The conditions are:
  1. They must enter into that "E-Verify type" system.
  2. They are allowed to apply for citizenship but they go to the back of the line of people that already have green cards or have already applied for citizenship.
  3. They must pay a fine for entering the country illegally.
  4. They are allowed to stay as long until their citizenship paperwork is finalized, as long as they commit no crimes and pay all taxes that everyone else pays. Failure to so that = immediate deportation.
  5. What crime is deportable is TBD.
  6. Size of the fine is TBD.
The Gang of Six bipartisan proposal.

Today a group of powerful U.S. Senators announced they have agreed to a framework on comprehensive immigration reform. The bipartisan group includes Senators Chuck Schumer (D-NY), Dick Durbin (D-IL), Bob Menendez (D-NJ), Michael Bennett (D-CO), Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Marco Rubio (R-FL), John McCain (R-AZ), and Jeff Flake (R-AZ). The fact that both parties have agreed to the deal gives it much better prospects for passage.

Path to Citizenship
  • The bill would include a “tough, fair, and practical roadmap to address the status of unauthorized immigrants in the United States.” At the same time, the framework states that this path to citizenship would be “contingent upon our success in securing our borders and addressing visa overstays.”
  • The bill would require those currently living in the United States illegally to register with the government, pass a background check, and settle their debt to society by paying a fine and back taxes. Individuals with a serious criminal background or those who “pose a threat to our national security” would be ineligible and subject to deportation.
  • Current restrictions keeping non-immigrants from accessing “public benefits” would also apply to those who are on the path the citizenship.
  • Once they have passed the background check and paid their “debt to society”, those on “probationary legal status” will be placed at the back of the line for prospective immigrants. These probationary immigrants will then have to “pass another background check, pay taxes, learn English and civics, demonstrate a history of work in the United States, and current employment” in order to apply for lawful permanent residency.
  • Exemptions would be made for minors who did not knowingly violate U.S. immigration laws when they entered the United States and agricultural workers.
Border Security
  • The Bill would increase Border Patrol efforts by “providing them with the latest technology, infrastructure, and personnel needed.” The legislation would increase the number of Border Patrol agents and the number of unmanned aerial vehicles, or drones, monitoring the border.
  • The bill would “strengthen prohibitions against racial profiling and inappropriate use of force” by increasing the training of border patrol agents and increasing oversight.
  • The bill would create an “entry-exit system” that would track whether all persons entering the United States on a temporary visa leave the country as required by law.
  • The bill would create a commission of “governors, attorneys general, and community leaders living along the Southwest border to monitor the progress of securing our border and make recommendations.”
Skilled Worker Immigration
  • The bill would develop a “rational legal immigration system” to reduce the backlog of visas which force families to live apart and keep specialized jobs unfilled.
  • The bill would also award a green card to immigrants who receive a PhD or Master’s degree in science, technology, engineering, or math from an American university.
Employment Verification
  • The bill would implement a “fast and reliable method to confirm whether new hires are legally authorized to work in the United States.”
  • The bill would place stiff fines and criminal penalties on employers who knowingly hire undocumented workers.
Low Skilled Workers
  • The bill would allow “more lower-skilled immigrants to come here when our economy is creating jobs, and fewer when our economy is not creating jobs.”
  • Employers who want to hire lower-skilled immigrants would have to demonstrate that they could not successfully recruit an American and that the hiring of the immigrant will not displace American workers

Last edited by BigRedChief; 01-28-2013 at 04:14 PM..
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:00 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
I agree. It frustrates the living shit out of me.
How are we supposed to be able to understand and accept each other, to work together and become friends and neighbors, when we can't communicate?

Refusal to learn/speak English causes resentment, isolates groups, and impedes progress in the workplace and classroom.

What is so hard to understand about any of this?
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:05 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
Too bad. If I move to another country you better believe I will learn the language the best I can. Language is a cultural barrier. If they don't learn the language they will never really be part of the American culture as a whole. People are more than welcome and encouraged to maintain their native cultures and customs but they also should be part of aspects of the American culture, especially one shared by the majority of Americans such as language.

The English language is one of the few qualities that everyone who comes here can have in common. This helps remove barriers in daily living, it prevents racism and prejudice, as well as prevent people from segregating themselves from others. How American can an area really be in which people speak nothing but Spanish, don't try to learn English, and have no desire or even need to speak English? (I know this scenario is an extreme and a generalization). The country and the individuals themselves are better off if immigrants speak English well enough to get by in daily living. Unfortunately not all immigrants seem to realize or concern themselves with those two things.
I'm not sure that the majority of illegals actually do want to become Americans, at least to the point where they would accept assimilation.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:08 AM   #63
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I'm sure most immigrants try to learn a passable amount, if not a conversational amount, of the English language. It's hard to do when you're working and taking care of people, though.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:09 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Literature View Post
I'm sure most immigrants try to lean a passable amount, if not a conversational amount, of the English language. It's hard to do when you're working and taking care of people, though.
Thanks for your practical knowledge on the subject of illegals as you sit in a classroom in the middle of Iowa.

Come on out to Arizona for a couple weeks and I'll show you around. You will have a different perspective.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:11 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
How are we supposed to be able to understand and accept each other, to work together and become friends and neighbors, when we can't communicate?

Refusal to learn/speak English causes resentment, isolates groups, and impedes progress in the workplace and classroom.

What is so hard to understand about any of this?
I agree.

I preach it all the time when i have conversations with Mexicans about what THEY need to do to make this work.

Sometimes they are their own worst enemy in all this.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:11 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
Thanks for your practical knowledge on the subject of illegals as you sit in a classroom in the middle of Iowa.
Do you think there are no immigrants (illegal or otherwise) in Iowa? Do you hang out with the immigrant population a lot in Arizona?
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:12 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Literature View Post
Do you think there are no immigrants (illegal or otherwise) in Iowa?
I know very well what the mexican situation is in Iowa. I'm from there, get back from time to time, and have friends/family there.

It is NOTHING like a border state. You can either believe me or not.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:13 AM   #68
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I agree.

I preach it all the time when i have conversations with Mexicans about what THEY need to do to make this work.

Sometimes they are their own worst enemy in all this.
And what do they say in response?
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:13 AM   #69
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I'm not sure that the majority of illegals actually do want to become Americans, at least to the point where they would accept assimilation.
Well you're wrong. Again.

From what i've seen, even the elderly want to be American. I'm sure there is a segment out there full of retards who still think we need to give California back to Mexico, but from my experience, they want to be Americans.

The problem resides with these people who are 30+ years old who struggle to learn a second language.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:14 AM   #70
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When I worked retail I noticed people's ability to speak English came and went depending on whether it benefited them.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:15 AM   #71
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I'm not sure that the majority of illegals actually do want to become Americans, at least to the point where they would accept assimilation.
That is a good point. Immigrants that want to come here and assimilate do so because it is the land of opportunity and you can try to make yourself something out of nothing. For the illegals who don't want to assimilate its the land of where there is plenty of grass to cut and leaves to be blown. There just seems to be no desire to do better for themselves for many of them, which part of that is because of the inability to speak the language.

If some of them truely and honestly enjoys that work that is terrific and more power to them for doing what they want. I know there are days when I would rather be doing that. That being said, its a shame they don't pay taxes into the system the way any American born person would if they did the same work. I guess I could be wrong, but I don't imagine companies that hire illegal immigrants have any way of imposing any kind of taxes or contributing money to the local schools that are educating the illegal children. I feel like I am all over the place.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:15 AM   #72
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And what do they say in response?
Depends on the person.

When i talk to these people(obviously in my age group) they instantly go in defense mode about their parents.

The most common response i get is "I shouldn't have to abandon my culture", in which case i have to explain that you can keep your culture while still integrating into ours.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:17 AM   #73
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:17 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Depends on the person.

When i talk to these people(obviously in my age group) they instantly go in defense mode about their parents.

The most common response i get is "I shouldn't have to abandon my culture", in which case i have to explain that you can keep your culture while still integrating into ours.
Okay. So, if that's the case, how can you claim that I am wrong about them not wanting to assimilate?

And I don't understand the parent part.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:18 AM   #75
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I know very well what the mexican situation is in Iowa. I'm from there, get back from time to time, and have friends/family there.

It is NOTHING like a border state. You can either believe me or not.
Okay, so yes, there are immigrants in Iowa. Good.
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