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Old 11-11-2012, 09:51 AM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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**OFFICIAL** Illegal Immigration Reform Thread.

You know its coming. As soon as the fiscal cliff is finished, illegal immigration is next.

Sen. Graham and Sen. Shumar have already resumed their illegal immigration talks from two years ago. Both were on the sunday shows talking about the plan. Both are seeing a possible huge bi-partisan deal is now possible based on their earlier work form two years ago.

Main points of the deal:
  • Lock down the border. Spend whatever money and political will to truly stop the flow of people over our borders.
  • A nationwide verification of employment. The idea is to come up with some kind of non forgeable document. A E-Verify for immigrants.
  • Increase legal immigration, especially for scientists, engineers and other fields that benefit America or workers are in short supply, i.e. workers who pick our produce in the fields.
  • Stiff and severe penalties for businesses that hire illegals after the "E-Verify type" system is in place.
  • The Dream act is part of the total package.
  • Every illegal in the country is possible allowed to stay legally in the country. The conditions are:
  1. They must enter into that "E-Verify type" system.
  2. They are allowed to apply for citizenship but they go to the back of the line of people that already have green cards or have already applied for citizenship.
  3. They must pay a fine for entering the country illegally.
  4. They are allowed to stay as long until their citizenship paperwork is finalized, as long as they commit no crimes and pay all taxes that everyone else pays. Failure to so that = immediate deportation.
  5. What crime is deportable is TBD.
  6. Size of the fine is TBD.
The Gang of Six bipartisan proposal.

Today a group of powerful U.S. Senators announced they have agreed to a framework on comprehensive immigration reform. The bipartisan group includes Senators Chuck Schumer (D-NY), Dick Durbin (D-IL), Bob Menendez (D-NJ), Michael Bennett (D-CO), Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Marco Rubio (R-FL), John McCain (R-AZ), and Jeff Flake (R-AZ). The fact that both parties have agreed to the deal gives it much better prospects for passage.

Path to Citizenship
  • The bill would include a “tough, fair, and practical roadmap to address the status of unauthorized immigrants in the United States.” At the same time, the framework states that this path to citizenship would be “contingent upon our success in securing our borders and addressing visa overstays.”
  • The bill would require those currently living in the United States illegally to register with the government, pass a background check, and settle their debt to society by paying a fine and back taxes. Individuals with a serious criminal background or those who “pose a threat to our national security” would be ineligible and subject to deportation.
  • Current restrictions keeping non-immigrants from accessing “public benefits” would also apply to those who are on the path the citizenship.
  • Once they have passed the background check and paid their “debt to society”, those on “probationary legal status” will be placed at the back of the line for prospective immigrants. These probationary immigrants will then have to “pass another background check, pay taxes, learn English and civics, demonstrate a history of work in the United States, and current employment” in order to apply for lawful permanent residency.
  • Exemptions would be made for minors who did not knowingly violate U.S. immigration laws when they entered the United States and agricultural workers.
Border Security
  • The Bill would increase Border Patrol efforts by “providing them with the latest technology, infrastructure, and personnel needed.” The legislation would increase the number of Border Patrol agents and the number of unmanned aerial vehicles, or drones, monitoring the border.
  • The bill would “strengthen prohibitions against racial profiling and inappropriate use of force” by increasing the training of border patrol agents and increasing oversight.
  • The bill would create an “entry-exit system” that would track whether all persons entering the United States on a temporary visa leave the country as required by law.
  • The bill would create a commission of “governors, attorneys general, and community leaders living along the Southwest border to monitor the progress of securing our border and make recommendations.”
Skilled Worker Immigration
  • The bill would develop a “rational legal immigration system” to reduce the backlog of visas which force families to live apart and keep specialized jobs unfilled.
  • The bill would also award a green card to immigrants who receive a PhD or Master’s degree in science, technology, engineering, or math from an American university.
Employment Verification
  • The bill would implement a “fast and reliable method to confirm whether new hires are legally authorized to work in the United States.”
  • The bill would place stiff fines and criminal penalties on employers who knowingly hire undocumented workers.
Low Skilled Workers
  • The bill would allow “more lower-skilled immigrants to come here when our economy is creating jobs, and fewer when our economy is not creating jobs.”
  • Employers who want to hire lower-skilled immigrants would have to demonstrate that they could not successfully recruit an American and that the hiring of the immigrant will not displace American workers

Last edited by BigRedChief; 01-28-2013 at 04:14 PM..
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:59 AM   #91
mr. tegu mr. tegu is offline
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Mmmm.....Not in my opinion. I think it's a bit different than that. A lot of you know when it comes to this subject, i speak in the defense of a handful that i know. Admittedly, these aren't your typical illegals, and i've told the stories of a few of them to this board already.

One is a very pretty young woman (a bit younger than myself) who has been in this country since she was less than a year old. She is what the DREAM act is built for. Perfect student, model citizen, 100% American in every way but her documentation.

Another is a a young man around my age who is incredibly technically savvy. He was brought here from the Philippines when he was a small boy along with his sister and mother. His mother died, he was put in a group home, where i met him.

I know another young lady whom i havent talked about, and most recently i learned that a 14 y/o boy i know is also Illegal.

The 14 y/o saddens me the most, because if he doesn't get a reasonable pathway to citizenship, his life will basically come to a halt when he turns 18 and graduates HS.

With all that said, when i talk to some of them about Immigration reform, they get defensive. Even though they are well integrated, they get defensive over their family. They feel attacked. They know they aren't wanted here in the only place they know as home, so they already feel threatened and pissed about the subject. So when i start telling them that their parents need to get with the program, they get upset in defense of their parents.

Like I said, their parents are the problem, and I'm not sure that there is a solution that would ever make everyone happy.
That is what I meant but looking back was not all that clear on. The parents are the ones I was speaking of who come from a place where they grow up only having to really accept and learn about one culture. Therefore, when they come here it is difficult for them to assimilate into the new culture without feeling like they are giving up on their own, because as per their past, one culture is all there was in their prior society.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:12 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
That is what I meant but looking back was not all that clear on. The parents are the ones I was speaking of who come from a place where they grow up only having to really accept and learn about one culture. Therefore, when they come here it is difficult for them to assimilate into the new culture without feeling like they are giving up on their own, because as per their past, one culture is all there was in their prior society.
Yeah i agree. That's why i can't bring myself to come to the plight of the parents.

Im stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to Immigration reform.

On one hand, we have these young adults who've grown up since grade school with an American Education, and are completely able to contribute to the country, but are forced to sit on the couch and be a drain on society instead. The only home that they've ever known wants to label them a bunch of uneducated, dirty illegals and wants them shipped out to a country that they have no memory of. That's an injustice and it's just not fair.

On the other hand, we have their parents and grand parents who are stubborn in their ways, or are too lazy or just just not bright enough to assimilate. They came here illegally and created this problem in the first place. They are the ones who will NOT have anything to contribute and end up further burdening our welfare system.

Somewhere inbetween is a solution and i think the OP is a damn good start, and something that people on both sides of the fence can get on board with.

What worries me is our welfare system. I think that needs to be addressed before immigration can be fixed. The teet can't take anymore suckling.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:21 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Literature View Post
Are the immigrants in Iowa a different flavor than the immigrants in Arizona? Share your practical wisdom with us. You're obviously very in touch with the immigrant crowd. I'm just in a classroom all day.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:44 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
The youth are already well integrated. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference with a lot of them, as they speak perfect english and were raised by this country. Culturally, they are American, Legaly they are not. When they tell me "they don't want to abandon their culture", it's more about them feeling offended, as if i'm asking them to stop being Mexican.

The Problem is with their parents.

So when i talk about these sensitive subjects with them, their initial reaction to every question isn't about how it will affect them, but rather how it'll affect their parents.
You have to consider many of the parents education level. Many are illiterate. Many speak terrible Spanish (grammar wise).

Learning English for some of them is impossible.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:11 PM   #95
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Just end birthright citizen ship. Simple. Problem solved. Less will come illegally. Less to gain.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:38 PM   #96
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I don't think there is an immigration problem from a legal perspective other than the Federal Government not doing it's job of defending the borders.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:39 PM   #97
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which is why Europe, Belgium for an example require HS students to learn 3 additional languges.... Dutch, German or French and English...those are in addition to Flemish which is their language
I'm not sure Belgium is a good example, given they can barely form governments anymore because of the French/Flemish divide.


I agree with everyone that English should be encouraged for citizenship. I think it's a bit unrealistic. As others have said, assimilation tends to come from the children.

The nature of immigration is that you're not going to get a massive wave of immigration from the well educated, developed areas of the world where English is taught from a little age.

It's important to set standards but keep them realistic.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:16 PM   #98
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The nature of immigration is that you're not going to get a massive wave of immigration from the well educated, developed areas of the world where English is taught from a little age.
Maybe not "massive", but we could sure get a larger percentage of our legal immigration from these areas if we refocused our immigration criteria.
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:19 PM   #99
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Maybe not "massive", but we could sure get a larger percentage of our legal immigration from these areas if we refocused our immigration criteria.
I honestly don't know. I'm all for fixing immigration to keep/invite more educated people here. I suspect immigration is overwhelmingly Asian and Latin America based. I don't see that changing.

But again, I think there are a few different areas here that need to be separated. Short term work visas vs. long term immigrants. I guess you can add in a third too, the illegal immigrants already here.
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:27 PM   #100
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I honestly don't know. I'm all for fixing immigration to keep/invite more educated people here. I suspect immigration is overwhelmingly Asian and Latin America based. I don't see that changing.

But again, I think there are a few different areas here that need to be separated. Short term work visas vs. long term immigrants. I guess you can add in a third too, the illegal immigrants already here.
If you are illegal you are not an immigrant. You are an alien. Let's call things what they are; not what illegal sympathizers want us to think they are.
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:27 PM   #101
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Interesting ideas from many people in this thread. I definitely agree that securing the border should be a priority but I have given up hope that a military presence will be used.

We definitely need to streamline our legal immigration processes and if comprehensive immigration reform passes, the illegals need to pay a fine and go to the end of the line (doesn't apply to illegals with criminal records they will just need to be deported.)

We also should have a biometric National ID card but I know that won't happen either.

As far as learning to speak English that is a necessary step to becoming a citizen and if comprehensive immigration reform passes it is my understanding that illegals will not be granted immediate citizenship just issued green cards or whatever. You don't need to learn English to get a green card IIRC.
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:44 PM   #102
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If you are illegal you are not an immigrant. You are an alien. Let's call things what they are; not what illegal sympathizers want us to think they are.


Immigrants can be illegal, and not all aliens are illegal.
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:21 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Literature View Post


Immigrants can be illegal, and not all aliens are illegal.
Yeah, his comment made no sense. But whatever - people can call it whatever the **** they want. Not sure it makes a difference. But what do I know - I'm an alien sympathizer.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:05 PM   #104
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Learning English for some of them is impossible.
Impossible? How'd they learn to speak Spanish?
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:16 PM   #105
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Impossible? How'd they learn to speak Spanish?
By the most effective and virtually only way to become fluid in a second language. Would you care to know what that is?
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