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Old 11-13-2012, 10:54 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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November 29: The UN will vote to recognize Palestine as a "state."

Currently, Palestine is a non-member observer entity in the UN.

The Palestinians have pressed forth to introduce a measure to upgrade them in the UN's eyes to a non-member observer state.

While being upgraded from non-member observer entity to non-member observer state doesn't sound like much, it does provide Palestine an opportunity to actually contribute and perform within the UN.

Most damning, of course, is that it would tell Israel and the United States that their treatment of Palestine is tantamount to suppression of what should be a legitimate, free country. An act bordering on apartheid, which the ICC (run by the UN, which could soon include Palestine) as "inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them." I don't regard that as a possibility.

But essentially, this has the ability to be a game changer in favor of two-state negotiations in favor of the Palestinian people, as opposed to the Likud/GOP alliance, which does not want any such two-state solution. All the facts on the ground right now favor Israel, as they expand their land, take more of the Palestinian land, and pretend with each passing year that the '67 borders with agreed-upon land swaps is some crime against Israel's humanity.

The only real arrow in Palestine's quiver is international opinion. And this particular vote in the UN cannot be unilaterally shot down by the United States, so it is sure to be voted on, and sure to be passed by roughly 75% of the UN.

As such, the United States and Israel are, understandably, freaking the **** out. The US is threatening to withdraw funding for much of the UN. Israel is threatening to discard the Oslo Accord, which allowed Palestine self-governance. This could potentially mean apartheid in everything but name.

So things are going to get really, really fascinating.

I ultimately think that Israel and the US' bark is worse than their bite. Obama prides himself on effective diplomacy which cannot happen if he's going to war with the UN. Israel's Netanyahu is far less concerned with international opinion, but doesn't want Israel to end up on the wrong side of the distinction between internationally frowned-upon to internationally despised. Though he may be heading that way anyway.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...rver-state-bid

Palestinians Defy Obama With UN ‘Observer State’ Bid
By Flavia Krause-Jackson
on November 08, 2012

Palestinians defied newly re-elected U.S. President Barack Obama by pushing ahead with a second statehood bid at the United Nations that will raise their profile at the world body and highlight the stagnation of the Mideast peace process.

The Palestinian Authority yesterday circulated a resolution to put the Palestine Liberation Organization on a par with the Holy See, according to a draft that will be put to a vote in the UN’s 193-member General Assembly, where the initiative has enough support to pass and the U.S. lacks veto power.

The latest steps by the Palestinians present Obama with his first foreign-policy challenge three days after he won a second term. A year ago, the Palestinians abandoned an attempt to be recognized as a full member state through the Security Council after Obama indicated the U.S. would use its veto there.

The PLO, which currently is an observer “entity,” is seeking a nonmember “observer state status,” according to the draft obtained by Bloomberg News.

By resurrecting the statehood issue in the General Assembly, the Palestinian leadership is trying to force the White House to pay attention to a moribund Palestinian-Israeli peace process that has dropped off the list of foreign-policy priorities for Obama.

In doing so, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is jeopardizing relations with Obama, as well as about $500 million in U.S. economic and security aid that members of Congress have threatened to cut if Palestinians proceed at the UN.

Issue Fades

The Palestinians have seen their cause fall into relative obscurity internationally since formal peace talks with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government were frozen two years ago.

Peace talks stumbled over the issue of Jewish settlements in the West Bank, which Israel captured from Jordan in the 1967 Six-Day War. Abbas said he wouldn’t return to negotiations unless Israel froze all settlement construction in the West Bank and east Jerusalem. Netanyahu has refused to renew a 10-month freeze on construction that expired in 2010.

Abbas will present the resolution in person in New York, according to a UN official speaking on condition of anonymity. A vote is expected to take place by the end of the month, the official said.

Still, the move isn’t without risks.

When the Palestinian Authority was accepted last year into the UN cultural agency UNESCO, best known for its designation of “world heritage” sites, the U.S. response was to cut off funding that provides almost a quarter of the agency’s budget.

The U.S. has said that American law would require similar cutoffs for any UN agency that grants the Palestinians the same status as member states.

International Criminal Court

The upgrade may open the door for Palestinians to join other UN agencies, including the International Criminal Court, where they could ask for Israel to be tried for war crimes.

“Israel’s main worry is the ICC,” Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erakat said in an Oct. 24 interview. “They don’t want me to have a sword on their neck.”

The initiative could also jeopardize international aid that accounts for about 14 percent of the Palestinians’ gross domestic product and invite retaliatory measures from Israel.

As for the U.S., the administration’s position hasn’t wavered. The U.S. ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, has said repeatedly that “unilateral actions,” such as the upgrade of the Palestinians’ UN status, would only derail efforts to restart direct peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:17 PM   #151
mnchiefsguy mnchiefsguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Two state solution, based on the '67 borders with agreed landswapping, with a demilitarized Palestinian state.

Do you think either one of these parties want this agreement?

Israel, no. Because the Netanyahu administration does not want a two-state solution. They want all of Israel.

Hamas, no. Because Hamas clings to power only so long as the Palestinians are terrified. Peace is bad for business.
Then Hamas being eliminated is good for the peace process, no?
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:20 PM   #152
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Then Hamas being eliminated is good for the peace process, no?
I don't know how you plan to do that in a way that doesn't kill thousands of Palestinian civilians. Doing so only radicalizes the Palestinian population further and further erodes the conduit to compromise. Then the very next radical organization looks to fills Hamas' shoes and badda bing, badda boom, we're back to where we started. It's not like Hamas is doing anything particularly challenging or complicated.
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:26 PM   #153
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I don't know how you plan to do that in a way that doesn't kill thousands of Palestinian civilians.
Call him up and tell him to stop hiding in the general public as a human shield.
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:29 PM   #154
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Then Hamas being eliminated is good for the peace process, no?
Bush pushed for elections and Hamas was elected.

I read the leader was calling for a truce and then things escalated with him being killed by the Israeli's. Speculation is are two that I've read: Bibi is doing it for his reelection and/or he is doing it because Obama was going to negotiate with Iran. ( Haaretz) This will prevent the latter. The man represents the extremists on the Israeli side of that conflict.
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:00 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Bush pushed for elections and Hamas was elected.

I read the leader was calling for a truce and then things escalated with him being killed by the Israeli's. Speculation is are two that I've read: Bibi is doing it for his reelection and/or he is doing it because Obama was going to negotiate with Iran. ( Haaretz) This will prevent the latter. The man represents the extremists on the Israeli side of that conflict.
Batshit crazy...your table is ready.
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:08 PM   #156
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Batshit crazy...your table is ready.
Aint that sumpthin
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:25 PM   #157
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Batshit crazy...your table is ready.
She is a total train wreck lol~
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:12 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I don't know how you plan to do that in a way that doesn't kill thousands of Palestinian civilians. Doing so only radicalizes the Palestinian population further and further erodes the conduit to compromise. Then the very next radical organization looks to fills Hamas' shoes and badda bing, badda boom, we're back to where we started. It's not like Hamas is doing anything particularly challenging or complicated.
Well, if Hamas does not want peace, and whomever replaces them in the Palestinian government does want peace, then it is pretty easy to say that Israel is not the problem, isn't it.

Your own statements show that the Palestinians would rather wipe out Israel than have their own state. Until that attitude changes, there will be no peace. And the Palestinians will have brought it upon themselves.
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:28 PM   #159
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Batshit crazy...your table is ready.
No people who support your FP are batshit crazy. That's why they call others derogatory names.
You'd burn a Quaker at the stake for being anti-war. That's your idea of sanity.
The American people are tired of your ilk and tired of war. I am one of the many.
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:32 PM   #160
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Aint that sumpthin
That was reported in Haaretz. You have to register to see it though.
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:37 PM   #161
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Does anybody know if Direckshun is a Palestinian?
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:48 PM   #162
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Does anybody know if Direckshun is a Palestinian?
He is an internet poster of unknown anything other than a screaming liberal. Smart guy, just liberal and dedicated to whatever he is fed by his handlers
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:52 PM   #163
RedNeckRaider RedNeckRaider is offline
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He is an internet poster of unknown anything other than a screaming liberal. Smart guy, just liberal and dedicated to whatever he is fed by his handlers
He is from Springfield Missouri I think~
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:59 PM   #164
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He is from Springfield Missouri I think~
That much I knew.....
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:30 PM   #165
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
Well, if Hamas does not want peace, and whomever replaces them in the Palestinian government does want peace, then it is pretty easy to say that Israel is not the problem, isn't it.
Israel is not *the* problem. The problem is shared.
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