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Old 11-13-2012, 09:54 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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November 29: The UN will vote to recognize Palestine as a "state."

Currently, Palestine is a non-member observer entity in the UN.

The Palestinians have pressed forth to introduce a measure to upgrade them in the UN's eyes to a non-member observer state.

While being upgraded from non-member observer entity to non-member observer state doesn't sound like much, it does provide Palestine an opportunity to actually contribute and perform within the UN.

Most damning, of course, is that it would tell Israel and the United States that their treatment of Palestine is tantamount to suppression of what should be a legitimate, free country. An act bordering on apartheid, which the ICC (run by the UN, which could soon include Palestine) as "inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them." I don't regard that as a possibility.

But essentially, this has the ability to be a game changer in favor of two-state negotiations in favor of the Palestinian people, as opposed to the Likud/GOP alliance, which does not want any such two-state solution. All the facts on the ground right now favor Israel, as they expand their land, take more of the Palestinian land, and pretend with each passing year that the '67 borders with agreed-upon land swaps is some crime against Israel's humanity.

The only real arrow in Palestine's quiver is international opinion. And this particular vote in the UN cannot be unilaterally shot down by the United States, so it is sure to be voted on, and sure to be passed by roughly 75% of the UN.

As such, the United States and Israel are, understandably, freaking the **** out. The US is threatening to withdraw funding for much of the UN. Israel is threatening to discard the Oslo Accord, which allowed Palestine self-governance. This could potentially mean apartheid in everything but name.

So things are going to get really, really fascinating.

I ultimately think that Israel and the US' bark is worse than their bite. Obama prides himself on effective diplomacy which cannot happen if he's going to war with the UN. Israel's Netanyahu is far less concerned with international opinion, but doesn't want Israel to end up on the wrong side of the distinction between internationally frowned-upon to internationally despised. Though he may be heading that way anyway.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...rver-state-bid

Palestinians Defy Obama With UN ‘Observer State’ Bid
By Flavia Krause-Jackson
on November 08, 2012

Palestinians defied newly re-elected U.S. President Barack Obama by pushing ahead with a second statehood bid at the United Nations that will raise their profile at the world body and highlight the stagnation of the Mideast peace process.

The Palestinian Authority yesterday circulated a resolution to put the Palestine Liberation Organization on a par with the Holy See, according to a draft that will be put to a vote in the UN’s 193-member General Assembly, where the initiative has enough support to pass and the U.S. lacks veto power.

The latest steps by the Palestinians present Obama with his first foreign-policy challenge three days after he won a second term. A year ago, the Palestinians abandoned an attempt to be recognized as a full member state through the Security Council after Obama indicated the U.S. would use its veto there.

The PLO, which currently is an observer “entity,” is seeking a nonmember “observer state status,” according to the draft obtained by Bloomberg News.

By resurrecting the statehood issue in the General Assembly, the Palestinian leadership is trying to force the White House to pay attention to a moribund Palestinian-Israeli peace process that has dropped off the list of foreign-policy priorities for Obama.

In doing so, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is jeopardizing relations with Obama, as well as about $500 million in U.S. economic and security aid that members of Congress have threatened to cut if Palestinians proceed at the UN.

Issue Fades

The Palestinians have seen their cause fall into relative obscurity internationally since formal peace talks with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government were frozen two years ago.

Peace talks stumbled over the issue of Jewish settlements in the West Bank, which Israel captured from Jordan in the 1967 Six-Day War. Abbas said he wouldn’t return to negotiations unless Israel froze all settlement construction in the West Bank and east Jerusalem. Netanyahu has refused to renew a 10-month freeze on construction that expired in 2010.

Abbas will present the resolution in person in New York, according to a UN official speaking on condition of anonymity. A vote is expected to take place by the end of the month, the official said.

Still, the move isn’t without risks.

When the Palestinian Authority was accepted last year into the UN cultural agency UNESCO, best known for its designation of “world heritage” sites, the U.S. response was to cut off funding that provides almost a quarter of the agency’s budget.

The U.S. has said that American law would require similar cutoffs for any UN agency that grants the Palestinians the same status as member states.

International Criminal Court

The upgrade may open the door for Palestinians to join other UN agencies, including the International Criminal Court, where they could ask for Israel to be tried for war crimes.

“Israel’s main worry is the ICC,” Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erakat said in an Oct. 24 interview. “They don’t want me to have a sword on their neck.”

The initiative could also jeopardize international aid that accounts for about 14 percent of the Palestinians’ gross domestic product and invite retaliatory measures from Israel.

As for the U.S., the administration’s position hasn’t wavered. The U.S. ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, has said repeatedly that “unilateral actions,” such as the upgrade of the Palestinians’ UN status, would only derail efforts to restart direct peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:34 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Israel is not *the* problem. The problem is shared.
The problem is easy to solve. There is plenty of room for both. However both sides think a god gave them title to the land. So **** it let them fight it out~
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:36 PM   #167
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
The problem is easy to solve. There is plenty of room for both. However both sides think a god gave them title to the land. So **** it let them fight it out~
How about share the land in accordance with a land arrangement both sides have been good with for fifty years?

'67 borders, land swaps, demilitarized Palestine. Share Jerusalem.

Fight the bloodshed. Don't facilitate it.
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:38 PM   #168
ForeverChiefs58 ForeverChiefs58 is offline
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
That Israel has broken ceasefires before? I'm confused, I didn't even think that was remotely in question.

A simple Google search turns up several examples. 2009. 2011. Several days ago. This isn't new information.
Are you actually arguing that Israel has never broken a ceasefire?
It's pretty new when you just make up shit as you go. You would believe anything that was antisemetic wouldn't you? Israel only responds to threats, or to stop threats. They don't have the same savagery or religious duty calling on them to kill innocents.

Anyone that CLAIMS to even like the palestinians has to hate all their leaders. You have to hate Hamas, PLO and every other faction and everything they stand for period. Otherwise you are a yapping with a clown suit on. Hamas and the PLO have done nothing but slam the door on any peace, and shit on everyone who doesn't support terrorists.

Unless you simply hate jews, you have to hate palestinian leadership for what you would think they have done to the people. They have done far worse to their own people than any jew or infidel could ever do, right?
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:40 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
How about share the land in accordance with a land arrangement both sides have been good with for fifty years?

'67 borders, land swaps, demilitarized Palestine. Share Jerusalem.

Fight the bloodshed. Don't facilitate it.
The only reason and I mean the only reason I side with Israel is because they do not threaten to kill me for not believing their bullshit beliefs~
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:49 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
How about share the land in accordance with a land arrangement both sides have been good with for fifty years?

'67 borders, land swaps, demilitarized Palestine. Share Jerusalem.

Fight the bloodshed. Don't facilitate it.
Reality must scare the shit out of you
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:50 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Israel is not *the* problem. The problem is shared.
Israel has offered to meet them more than half way many, many, many times.

Israel does not intentionally target women and children.

They are not the problem.

There is no shared problem. Until the Palestinians step forward and leave their thirst for violence and their quest for genocide behind and join the civilized world....they are most certainly the problem.
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:06 AM   #172
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
Israel has offered to meet them more than half way many, many, many times.
Then why not do so now?

You act as their surrogate, right now: let's do the '67 borders with land swaps.

Deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
Israel does not intentionally target women and children.
Things are soooo simple in your world.

Israel knows that they kill more Palestinian women and children every time they launch one of these ill-fated ground invasions then they will ever have to suffer themselves. They know this. How could they not.

They know that if they lob a missile into Palestine, women and children will die.

So when Hamas sends a rocket that doesn't even have a warhead, gets intercepted by Israel's defense shield or just piffles out in the sky without causing any damage, lobbing a missile in retaliation for basically nothing with something that is sure to kill civilians is disproportionate, brutal violence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
They are not the problem.

There is no shared problem. Until the Palestinians step forward and leave their thirst for violence and their quest for genocide behind and join the civilized world....they are most certainly the problem.
The halo you put around Israel's head is amusing, I'll admit.

They're not innocent in this. Netanyahu wants all of Israel, and he does not want to share it.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:53 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Then why not do so now?

You act as their surrogate, right now: let's do the '67 borders with land swaps.

Deal?



Things are soooo simple in your world.

Israel knows that they kill more Palestinian women and children every time they launch one of these ill-fated ground invasions then they will ever have to suffer themselves. They know this. How could they not.

They know that if they lob a missile into Palestine, women and children will die.

So when Hamas sends a rocket that doesn't even have a warhead, gets intercepted by Israel's defense shield or just piffles out in the sky without causing any damage, lobbing a missile in retaliation for basically nothing with something that is sure to kill civilians is disproportionate, brutal violence.



The halo you put around Israel's head is amusing, I'll admit.

They're not innocent in this. The Palestinians wants all of Israel, and they do not want to share it, and they openly share these feelings and only a big dumbass would think they are just bluffing.
FYP, but you are too blind or on the crack to get it.

Israel knows innocent people will die with ground troops, which is why they hold off so long before doing it. They at least give peace a chance to stop the damn rockets falling on their citizens. Only after they are unable to get anyone to stop the firing of rockets at their random citizens.

How can you bitch about disproportionate, brutal violence, when the palestinians are constantly firing rocket attacks and suicide bombings on random citizens? Often involving children...on purpose. You won't complain about that, only that when Israel punched back you didn't like it? That sounds like a dumbass pussy to me.

Just 1 citizens being killed, is too many you ****ing dolt. It doesn't matter if you and your palestinians don't think it is a big deal. If the rockets aren't that big a deal and don't do much then why use not simply just stop them? Especially when you are aware of what will happen when you launch them.

No country will just sit there and let someone constantly try and kill their citizens but not do anything because they are just poor and stupid and don't think it is that big a deal.

If Mexico tried that shit we would be calling for all of their heads.

What is also amusing is that you think the palestinians want '67 borders with land swaps. They don't. They have rejected that over and over.

They want all of Israel period. It's sad that you don't believe the palestinians when they say it. You think they are just joking around about wanting all of Israel and to kill all the jews?

You really should lay off the crack
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:03 AM
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:05 AM   #174
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:07 AM   #175
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I'm ready for the United States to have 0 interest in what goes on in Israel.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:19 AM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
let's do the '67 borders
see, this is what sneaks out every once in a while, but he'll NEVER say why.,..

you know why?...Because Jerusalem is their capital, it's where prophecy states Christ will sit on the throne of David...and he just can't have that...it also puts Israel in a vice of nine miles, and makes it much easier to destroy them.


the most adorable part is he'll trot out some half hearted BS line about how Hamas is bad, but then spend countless time telling you how REALLY bad Israel is...it's a burdensome stone to him, and he's unknowingly just playing his part in prophecy trying to live vicariously through another "victim"...
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:24 AM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
How about share the land in accordance with a land arrangement both sides have been good with for fifty years?

'67 borders, land swaps, demilitarized Palestine. Share Jerusalem.

Fight the bloodshed. Don't facilitate it.
The first and most important reason that can't work is the palestinian side has no interest in peace according to those terms.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:42 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Then why not do so now?

You act as their surrogate, right now: let's do the '67 borders with land swaps.

Deal?
What makes you think that the Palestinians and Hamas would accept that?
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:43 AM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
see, this is what sneaks out every once in a while, but he'll NEVER say why.,..

you know why?...Because Jerusalem is their capital, it's where prophecy states Christ will sit on the throne of David...and he just can't have that...it also puts Israel in a vice of nine miles, and makes it much easier to destroy them.


the most adorable part is he'll trot out some half hearted BS line about how Hamas is bad, but then spend countless time telling you how REALLY bad Israel is...it's a burdensome stone to him, and he's unknowingly just playing his part in prophecy trying to live vicariously through another "victim"...
New Jerusalem, not the physical place. Christ is already on the throne of David.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:47 AM   #180
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Christ is already on the throne of David.
no, sorry.
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