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Old 11-13-2012, 09:54 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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November 29: The UN will vote to recognize Palestine as a "state."

Currently, Palestine is a non-member observer entity in the UN.

The Palestinians have pressed forth to introduce a measure to upgrade them in the UN's eyes to a non-member observer state.

While being upgraded from non-member observer entity to non-member observer state doesn't sound like much, it does provide Palestine an opportunity to actually contribute and perform within the UN.

Most damning, of course, is that it would tell Israel and the United States that their treatment of Palestine is tantamount to suppression of what should be a legitimate, free country. An act bordering on apartheid, which the ICC (run by the UN, which could soon include Palestine) as "inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them." I don't regard that as a possibility.

But essentially, this has the ability to be a game changer in favor of two-state negotiations in favor of the Palestinian people, as opposed to the Likud/GOP alliance, which does not want any such two-state solution. All the facts on the ground right now favor Israel, as they expand their land, take more of the Palestinian land, and pretend with each passing year that the '67 borders with agreed-upon land swaps is some crime against Israel's humanity.

The only real arrow in Palestine's quiver is international opinion. And this particular vote in the UN cannot be unilaterally shot down by the United States, so it is sure to be voted on, and sure to be passed by roughly 75% of the UN.

As such, the United States and Israel are, understandably, freaking the **** out. The US is threatening to withdraw funding for much of the UN. Israel is threatening to discard the Oslo Accord, which allowed Palestine self-governance. This could potentially mean apartheid in everything but name.

So things are going to get really, really fascinating.

I ultimately think that Israel and the US' bark is worse than their bite. Obama prides himself on effective diplomacy which cannot happen if he's going to war with the UN. Israel's Netanyahu is far less concerned with international opinion, but doesn't want Israel to end up on the wrong side of the distinction between internationally frowned-upon to internationally despised. Though he may be heading that way anyway.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...rver-state-bid

Palestinians Defy Obama With UN ‘Observer State’ Bid
By Flavia Krause-Jackson
on November 08, 2012

Palestinians defied newly re-elected U.S. President Barack Obama by pushing ahead with a second statehood bid at the United Nations that will raise their profile at the world body and highlight the stagnation of the Mideast peace process.

The Palestinian Authority yesterday circulated a resolution to put the Palestine Liberation Organization on a par with the Holy See, according to a draft that will be put to a vote in the UN’s 193-member General Assembly, where the initiative has enough support to pass and the U.S. lacks veto power.

The latest steps by the Palestinians present Obama with his first foreign-policy challenge three days after he won a second term. A year ago, the Palestinians abandoned an attempt to be recognized as a full member state through the Security Council after Obama indicated the U.S. would use its veto there.

The PLO, which currently is an observer “entity,” is seeking a nonmember “observer state status,” according to the draft obtained by Bloomberg News.

By resurrecting the statehood issue in the General Assembly, the Palestinian leadership is trying to force the White House to pay attention to a moribund Palestinian-Israeli peace process that has dropped off the list of foreign-policy priorities for Obama.

In doing so, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is jeopardizing relations with Obama, as well as about $500 million in U.S. economic and security aid that members of Congress have threatened to cut if Palestinians proceed at the UN.

Issue Fades

The Palestinians have seen their cause fall into relative obscurity internationally since formal peace talks with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government were frozen two years ago.

Peace talks stumbled over the issue of Jewish settlements in the West Bank, which Israel captured from Jordan in the 1967 Six-Day War. Abbas said he wouldn’t return to negotiations unless Israel froze all settlement construction in the West Bank and east Jerusalem. Netanyahu has refused to renew a 10-month freeze on construction that expired in 2010.

Abbas will present the resolution in person in New York, according to a UN official speaking on condition of anonymity. A vote is expected to take place by the end of the month, the official said.

Still, the move isn’t without risks.

When the Palestinian Authority was accepted last year into the UN cultural agency UNESCO, best known for its designation of “world heritage” sites, the U.S. response was to cut off funding that provides almost a quarter of the agency’s budget.

The U.S. has said that American law would require similar cutoffs for any UN agency that grants the Palestinians the same status as member states.

International Criminal Court

The upgrade may open the door for Palestinians to join other UN agencies, including the International Criminal Court, where they could ask for Israel to be tried for war crimes.

“Israel’s main worry is the ICC,” Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erakat said in an Oct. 24 interview. “They don’t want me to have a sword on their neck.”

The initiative could also jeopardize international aid that accounts for about 14 percent of the Palestinians’ gross domestic product and invite retaliatory measures from Israel.

As for the U.S., the administration’s position hasn’t wavered. The U.S. ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, has said repeatedly that “unilateral actions,” such as the upgrade of the Palestinians’ UN status, would only derail efforts to restart direct peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:02 PM   #211
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Originally Posted by Nafman87 View Post
Ya it's called democracy
Touchdown!!!!!!
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:03 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Nafman87 View Post
Ya it's called democracy
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:04 PM   #213
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by Nafman87 View Post
Ya it's called democracy
It is? Well, then, I am not a fan of democracy. Our Framers weren't either. I think it's the worst form of govt. I don't think what I posted is what defines democracy though. That happens in this here, republic too.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:04 PM   #214
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Touchdown!!!!!!
Nope, more like a penalty.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:05 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
It is? Well, then, I am not a fan of democracy. Our Framers weren't either. I think it's the worst form of govt. I don't think what I posted is what defines democracy though. That happens in this here, republic too.
Oh Lord, here we go again...
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:06 PM   #216
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Israeli offensive in Gaza was years in the making



JERUSALEM (AP) — With little notice, Israel has launched a blistering air offensive against the Gaza Strip's ruling Hamas militant group. Here's a look at why the violence erupted, the goals of the warring sides and how it may end:

Lightning Strike: Israel opened its offensive with a surprise airstrike on Nov. 14 that killed the shadowy leader of Hamas' military wing. Since then, it has carried out hundreds of airstrikes in what it says is a systematic campaign to halt years of rocket attacks launched from Gaza. While Israel claims to have inflicted heavy damage, dozens of rockets have continued to fly out of Gaza each day.

Why Now? Israel launched the operation in response to days of rocket attacks out of Gaza, highlighted by a rare missile strike on an Israeli military jeep that wounded four soldiers. But the operation was actually years in the making. Since a previous Israeli offensive four years ago, Hamas has restocked its arsenal with more sophisticated and powerful weapons smuggled in from Egypt through underground tunnels. After a lull following Israel's previous offensive, rocket fire has steadily climbed the past two years. The Israeli military says more than 700 rockets were launched into Israel this year before it launched the offensive last week. In this environment, Israeli officials have said it was only a matter of time before a new round of fighting broke out.

The battlefield: Hamas seized control of Gaza, a densely populated strip of land sandwiched between southern Israel and Egypt's Sinai desert, five years ago from the rival Fatah movement of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. Hamas, a militant group sworn to Israel's destruction, has developed its rocket arsenal to the point where nearly half of Israel's population is in range.

http://news.yahoo.com/israeli-offens...195916153.html
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:13 PM   #217
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Oh Lord, here we go again...
Not if you just shut up.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:14 PM   #218
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Not if you just shut up.
Stop staying stupid crap and you won't hear a peep out of me, sugar.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:15 PM   #219
La literatura La literatura is offline
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I live here because I am a Zionist and believe that Israel is the Jewish state. There are many Arabs that live in peace Amongst us. Then there are the terrorists who commit acts of terror on innocent civilians. Whether it be suicide bombers or shooting missiles at us. What most of the world don't know is that there are attempts at terror attacks weekly that are caught in time by the IDF.

I will never leave this country because I believe that one day we can live in peace.

You are right, I overreacted by saying the whole world makes us look bad. The fact is that I just don't understand how ppl some ppl can call us the terrorists or "the bad ones" in this situation.

We sit quietly while we are bombed for years. Then one day we can't take it anymore, and we finally fight back. We are the victims here.
Sorry, I like Israel just fine, but let's not pretend your country is completely innocent. Why the continued settlements, and even more, the expansion of settlements in the West Bank? Apparently, our President isn't really bothered by that anymore, but some of us still think it's a significant impediment to peace.

I don't think there's any perception that Israel is the terrorists, by the way. Who needs terrorism when you have your military and our backing? I think most of America is on the side of Israel in this conflict.

Anyway, stay safe. I sincerely hope Hamas and the Palestinians quit acting stupidly and end this conflict. It's damn near impossible to have any sympathy for their continued troubles when their leadership engages in these sort of actions.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:15 PM   #220
RNR RNR is offline
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Stop staying stupid crap and you won't hear a peep out of me, sugar.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:17 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
Direckshun is a supporter of the Hamas terrorists. Big surprise.
the last part of his post that you quoted:
Quote:
Hamas doesn't want peace with Israel. A two-state solution means they end up out of power eventually.

A constant state of conflict is needed to keep them in power.
doesn't sound much like a supporter of hamas to me...

sympathetic to palestinian concerns? sure...

a supporter of hamas? not so much...
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:19 PM   #222
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Sorry, I like Israel just fine, but let's not pretend your country is completely innocent. Why the continued settlements, and even more, the expansion of settlements in the West Bank? Apparently, our President isn't really bothered by that anymore, but some of us still think it's a significant impediment to peace.

I don't think there's any perception that Israel is the terrorists, by the way. Who needs terrorism when you have your military and our backing? I think most of America is on the side of Israel in this conflict.

Anyway, stay safe. I sincerely hope Hamas and the Palestinians quit acting stupidly and end this conflict. It's damn near impossible to have any sympathy for their continued troubles when their leadership engages in these sort of actions.
Israel pulled out of the West Bank in 2005
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:21 PM   #223
vailpass vailpass is offline
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
the last part of his post that you quoted:

doesn't sound much like a supporter of hamas to me...

sympathetic to palestinian concerns? sure...

a supporter of hamas? not so much...
His body of work, when taken as a whole, paints a different picture. He.she/it's one-off "Hamas is bad" comments are surrounded by incidents and allegations that show his sympathies to lie clearly with Palestine and Hamas.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:22 PM   #224
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His body of work, when taken as a whole, paints a different picture. His one-off "Hamas is bad" comments are surrounded by incidents and allegations that show his sympathies to lie clearly with Palestine and Hamas.
This.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:22 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Nafman87 View Post
Israel pulled out of the West Bank in 2005
So you know with whom you are conversing: Literature is a college kid in Iowa who has never held a real job or served in the military.

This does not stop him from trying to give advice based on experiences he's never had; and which he may or not have read about in a book.
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Last edited by vailpass; 11-19-2012 at 03:28 PM..
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