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Old 11-13-2012, 10:54 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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November 29: The UN will vote to recognize Palestine as a "state."

Currently, Palestine is a non-member observer entity in the UN.

The Palestinians have pressed forth to introduce a measure to upgrade them in the UN's eyes to a non-member observer state.

While being upgraded from non-member observer entity to non-member observer state doesn't sound like much, it does provide Palestine an opportunity to actually contribute and perform within the UN.

Most damning, of course, is that it would tell Israel and the United States that their treatment of Palestine is tantamount to suppression of what should be a legitimate, free country. An act bordering on apartheid, which the ICC (run by the UN, which could soon include Palestine) as "inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them." I don't regard that as a possibility.

But essentially, this has the ability to be a game changer in favor of two-state negotiations in favor of the Palestinian people, as opposed to the Likud/GOP alliance, which does not want any such two-state solution. All the facts on the ground right now favor Israel, as they expand their land, take more of the Palestinian land, and pretend with each passing year that the '67 borders with agreed-upon land swaps is some crime against Israel's humanity.

The only real arrow in Palestine's quiver is international opinion. And this particular vote in the UN cannot be unilaterally shot down by the United States, so it is sure to be voted on, and sure to be passed by roughly 75% of the UN.

As such, the United States and Israel are, understandably, freaking the **** out. The US is threatening to withdraw funding for much of the UN. Israel is threatening to discard the Oslo Accord, which allowed Palestine self-governance. This could potentially mean apartheid in everything but name.

So things are going to get really, really fascinating.

I ultimately think that Israel and the US' bark is worse than their bite. Obama prides himself on effective diplomacy which cannot happen if he's going to war with the UN. Israel's Netanyahu is far less concerned with international opinion, but doesn't want Israel to end up on the wrong side of the distinction between internationally frowned-upon to internationally despised. Though he may be heading that way anyway.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...rver-state-bid

Palestinians Defy Obama With UN ‘Observer State’ Bid
By Flavia Krause-Jackson
on November 08, 2012

Palestinians defied newly re-elected U.S. President Barack Obama by pushing ahead with a second statehood bid at the United Nations that will raise their profile at the world body and highlight the stagnation of the Mideast peace process.

The Palestinian Authority yesterday circulated a resolution to put the Palestine Liberation Organization on a par with the Holy See, according to a draft that will be put to a vote in the UN’s 193-member General Assembly, where the initiative has enough support to pass and the U.S. lacks veto power.

The latest steps by the Palestinians present Obama with his first foreign-policy challenge three days after he won a second term. A year ago, the Palestinians abandoned an attempt to be recognized as a full member state through the Security Council after Obama indicated the U.S. would use its veto there.

The PLO, which currently is an observer “entity,” is seeking a nonmember “observer state status,” according to the draft obtained by Bloomberg News.

By resurrecting the statehood issue in the General Assembly, the Palestinian leadership is trying to force the White House to pay attention to a moribund Palestinian-Israeli peace process that has dropped off the list of foreign-policy priorities for Obama.

In doing so, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is jeopardizing relations with Obama, as well as about $500 million in U.S. economic and security aid that members of Congress have threatened to cut if Palestinians proceed at the UN.

Issue Fades

The Palestinians have seen their cause fall into relative obscurity internationally since formal peace talks with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government were frozen two years ago.

Peace talks stumbled over the issue of Jewish settlements in the West Bank, which Israel captured from Jordan in the 1967 Six-Day War. Abbas said he wouldn’t return to negotiations unless Israel froze all settlement construction in the West Bank and east Jerusalem. Netanyahu has refused to renew a 10-month freeze on construction that expired in 2010.

Abbas will present the resolution in person in New York, according to a UN official speaking on condition of anonymity. A vote is expected to take place by the end of the month, the official said.

Still, the move isn’t without risks.

When the Palestinian Authority was accepted last year into the UN cultural agency UNESCO, best known for its designation of “world heritage” sites, the U.S. response was to cut off funding that provides almost a quarter of the agency’s budget.

The U.S. has said that American law would require similar cutoffs for any UN agency that grants the Palestinians the same status as member states.

International Criminal Court

The upgrade may open the door for Palestinians to join other UN agencies, including the International Criminal Court, where they could ask for Israel to be tried for war crimes.

“Israel’s main worry is the ICC,” Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erakat said in an Oct. 24 interview. “They don’t want me to have a sword on their neck.”

The initiative could also jeopardize international aid that accounts for about 14 percent of the Palestinians’ gross domestic product and invite retaliatory measures from Israel.

As for the U.S., the administration’s position hasn’t wavered. The U.S. ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, has said repeatedly that “unilateral actions,” such as the upgrade of the Palestinians’ UN status, would only derail efforts to restart direct peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:25 PM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nafman87 View Post
Israel pulled out of the West Bank in 2005
There are still settlements in the West Bank though, right?
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:26 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nafman87 View Post
Israel pulled out of the West Bank in 2005
Have Israeli outposts expanded in the West Bank since 2005?
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:26 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
His body of work, when taken as a whole, paints a different picture. His one-off "Hamas is bad" comments are surrounded by incidents and allegations that show his sympathies to lie clearly with Palestine and Hamas.
i'll give you the sympathy wrt palestine/palestinians part, hell, i am sympathetic to the palestinian plight...

but from my perspective his body of work doesn't necessarily reflect overt support for hamas politically or otherwise; of course ymmv...
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:28 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nafman87 View Post
Israel pulled out of the West Bank in 2005
i'd be interested to know your opinion of the ongoing expansion of the west bank settlements...
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:29 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
So you know with whom you are conversing: Literature is a college kid in Iowa who has never held a real job or served in the military.

This does not stop him from trying to give advice based on experiences he's never had; and which he may or not have read about in a book.
Other disclosures: vailpass can't find Israel on a map of the Middle East.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:33 PM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
i'll give you the sympathy wrt palestine/palestinians part, hell, i am sympathetic to the palestinian plight...

but from my perspective his body of work doesn't necessarily reflect overt support for hamas politically or otherwise; of course ymmv...
Fair enough Bowe; your is usually a more balanced, less biased view than mine.

Direckshun's attempts to justify the terrorist actions of Hamas constitute, to me, tacit support.
At least that's the way it looks in the 30 seconds I've taken to read that goofy bastard's posts on the subject. Which is about 25 more seconds than he/she/it merits IMHO.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:34 PM   #232
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Yes Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005. The West Bank is settled by both Jews and Arabs.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:34 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
So you know with whom you are conversing: Literature is a college kid in Iowa who has never held a real job or served in the military.

This does not stop him from trying to give advice based on experiences he's never had; and which he may or not have read about in a book.
And he lives in your head.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:36 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
Fair enough Bowe; your is usually a more balanced, less biased view than mine.

Direckshun's attempts to justify the terrorist actions of Hamas constitute, to me, tacit support.
At least that's the way it looks in the 30 seconds I've taken to read that goofy bastard's posts on the subject. Which is about 25 more seconds than he/she/it merits IMHO.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:36 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Literature View Post
Other disclosures: vailpass can't find Israel on a map of the Middle East.
Other disclosures: Literature is a candy ass who resorts to attempts to belittle the intelligence of his antagonists when he has no other recourse.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:37 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Nafman87 View Post
Yes Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005. The West Bank is settled by both Jews and Arabs.
About half a million Jews in the West Bank, correct?
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:38 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla View Post
And he lives in your head.
Seriously? You pull that tired meme out? In the words of obama supporters everywhere: I deserve better.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:40 PM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
Other disclosures: Literature is a candy ass who resorts to attempts to belittle the intelligence of his antagonists when he has no other recourse.
hold on there, buddy...

it's not a disclosure when it's already obvious to whoever reads his posts, is it?
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:40 PM   #239
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About half a million Jews in the West Bank, correct?
Around 350,000
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:43 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
Seriously? You pull that tired meme out? In the words of obama supporters everywhere: I deserve better.
you obviously have confused obama supporters with the save our chiefs movement - we deserve better is soc, obama supporters is gimme my stuff...
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