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View Poll Results: Should the Chiefs Hire A GM or HC first?
Hire a GM first 70 77.78%
Hire a Head Coach first 13 14.44%
Let Gaz decide with a Ouija Board 7 7.78%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-19-2012, 06:16 PM  
CaliforniaChief CaliforniaChief is offline
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The GM or the Head Coach?

Which should come first?

The Chiefs have followed the GM/HC model since Carl Peterson. But what about Whitlock's argument that they should pick the HC first and then let the coach and owner pick personnel people?

I'm coming around to the coach-first strategy, which may be why Pioli hasn't been canned yet.

It might be an added incentive for a coach like Chip Kelly to get the chance to build the whole system.

Your thoughts?
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:27 PM   #61
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I think Gruden ends up in San Diego or Philly...
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:16 AM   #62
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GM first please.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:23 AM   #63
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Who was hired first in Atlanta? The HC Smith or the GM Dimitrioff (sp?)?

I'd follow that model.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:23 AM   #64
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Petro has been saying this for about a week, too.

Go get your HC FIRST. Then have him bring in a GM. He says the NFL is changing, head coaches are too important, and if you look at teams like Green Bay, the relationship is more functional when the GM doesn't have total control.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:26 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Sadly this is accurate. He needs to hire a retread with a track record. Gruden, Cowher, Reid some one that can inspire hope and excitement to the mentally challenged Debs of the world.

I'd much rather go with a Haley type young gun head coach we can break-in the way we want and can grow into the next best thing.
Sadly?

What this team REALLY needs is a guy that has yet to win a Super Bowl but has been a head coach elsewhere.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:27 AM   #66
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Sadly?

What this team REALLY needs is a guy that has yet to win a Super Bowl but has been a head coach elsewhere.
Well, that makes him a retread to CP.

Completely unacceptable...
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:30 AM   #67
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Well, that makes him a retread to CP.

Completely unacceptable...
To me, "retread" is somebody who has coached here before.

Marty is a "retread". Cowher is a "retread".

Andy Reid is not a retread. I'm not sure I like him as a HC (seems to have Martz-esque troubles with a balanced offense at times, moving an offensive line coach to DC seems monumentally stupid) but he fits the bill - 2nd job, no ring.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:37 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
To me, "retread" is somebody who has coached here before.

Marty is a "retread". Cowher is a "retread".

Andy Reid is not a retread. I'm not sure I like him as a HC (seems to have Martz-esque troubles with a balanced offense at times, moving an offensive line coach to DC seems monumentally stupid) but he fits the bill - 2nd job, no ring.
To me a retread is a guy who moves from place to place never really accomplishing $3it.

Parcells was not a retread. He won everywhere he went.

Cowher = 1 HC job.
Reid = 1 HC job.
Gruden = built one team that went to an AFCC game and the SB the next year. Took a team his first year to the SB and DESTROYED his old team.

The idea that a team doesn't need a motivator as HC is the dumbest thing I keep hearing on here. I don't care where you work a positive mindset combined with competent execution of your goals is why any business works...
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:40 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Rausch View Post
To me a retread is a guy who moves from place to place never really accomplishing $3it.

Parcells was not a retread. He won everywhere he went.

Cowher = 1 HC job.
Reid = 1 HC job.
Gruden = built one team that went to an AFCC game and the SB the next year. Took a team his first year to the SB and DESTROYED his old team.

The idea that a team doesn't need a motivator as HC is the dumbest thing I keep hearing on here. I don't care where you work a positive mindset combined with competent execution of your goals is why any business works...
The difference with Cowher and Gruden is that they've already won a ring. I don't know necessarily why it's the case, but it is a fact that nobody has ever won one with 2 different teams.

I'm not a fan of trying to defy history...
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:43 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post

I'm not a fan of trying to defy history...
If we don't starting learning how to defy history we'll never have a franchise QB and will only win one more playoff game over the next 40 years.

Defying history is EXACTLY what we're looking for...
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:47 AM   #71
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If we don't starting learning how to defy history we'll never have a franchise QB and will only win one more playoff game over the next 40 years.

Defying history is EXACTLY what we're looking for...
This team not drafting a QB, or winning a playoff game in 20 years, isn't the same. Since 1983, we've had only 2 owners and 3 GMs. That's too small a sample size to call it a "trend".

On the other hand, you can take the history of EVERY team and EVERY coach over the course of nearly a century - that's a sample size in the thousands - and not find a single coach that has won a championship with 2 different teams.

They're not even close to the same idea. What you want is not defying history, it's simply changing behavior.

Last edited by htismaqe; 11-20-2012 at 06:53 AM..
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:56 AM   #72
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This team not drafting a QB, or winning a playoff game in 20 years, isn't the same.
I would argue it is.

Bad teams with franchise QB's have knocked us out of the playoffs every year going back to 94...

Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
Since 1983, we've had only 2 owners and 3 GMs. That's too small a sample size to call it a "trend".
You can't be ****ing serious.

30 years is too small a sample size?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
On the other hand, you can take the history of EVERY team and EVERY coach over the course of nearly a century - that's a sample size in the thousands - and not find a single coach that has won a championship with 2 different teams.
Parcells Won a SB.
Won an AFCC game (Patriots.) That's two champ games in two different conferences.
Then took the Jets to the AFCC game.

At this hour I'm not sure about the chronological order there but you get the point...
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:02 AM   #73
htismaqe htismaqe is offline
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I would argue it is.

Bad teams with franchise QB's have knocked us out of the playoffs every year going back to 94...
Yep. THAT is the historical trend. History suggests we should draft a franchise QB if we want to win in the playoffs.

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You can't be ****ing serious.

30 years is too small a sample size?...
30 years with ONE owner. That's not a historical trend, that's a behavioral issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rausch View Post
Parcells Won a SB.
Won an AFCC game (Patriots.) That's two champ games in two different conferences.
Then took the Jets to the AFCC game.

At this hour I'm not sure about the chronological order there but you get the point...
And I'm sure Patriot and Jets fans were perfectly happy with Parcells NOT winning a Super Bowl there. Our goal isn't to make it to an AFC Championship game. Hell, Marty did that. Let's bring him back.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:07 AM   #74
Rausch Rausch is offline
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Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
30 years with ONE owner. That's not a historical trend, that's a behavioral issue.
Two.

And we don't get to draft or sign a new one of those...

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Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
And I'm sure Patriot and Jets fans were perfectly happy with Parcells NOT winning a Super Bowl there. Our goal isn't to make it to an AFC Championship game. Hell, Marty did that. Let's bring him back.
I would JIMP if we made an AFCC game at this point.

This team is a joke on the level of the Lions, Browns, or Seahawks.

We need a HC with lofty goals and practical applications...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rico View Post
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:14 AM   #75
htismaqe htismaqe is offline
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Two.

And we don't get to draft or sign a new one of those...
The current owner learned everything he knows about football from the former owner. There's no clean break in philosophy there - at least not yet.

The point is that what we've done in the past is not a historical trend. There aren't enough data points. If you want to discuss what we've done in relativity to the rest of the league, when it comes to drafting and developing QBs, then we can talk about historical trends. This team constitutes one large, 30-year data point in that analysis and it's not flattering for sure.

Quote:
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I would JIMP if we made an AFCC game at this point.

This team is a joke on the level of the Lions, Browns, or Seahawks.

We need a HC with lofty goals and practical applications...
In same ways I understand that mindset and that's fine for the fans. However, in the end, the goal is to win it all.
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