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Old 11-24-2012, 10:33 AM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood goes down dictatorship path.

Grant themselves sweeping powers and give the Islamist s the power to write the constitution. Riots break out in multiple cities.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11...#ixzz2DA59xzWv

CAIRO – Egypt's highest body of judges slammed on Saturday a recent decision by the president to grant himself near-absolute power, calling the move an "unprecedented assault" on the judiciary.

In a statement carried on Egypt's official MENA news agency, the Supreme Judicial Council condemned this week's declaration by President Mohammed Morsi placing his decrees above judicial review until a new constitution and parliament is in place, several months if not more in the future.
Their condemnation of the president's edicts are the latest blow to Morsi, whose decision Thursday set off a firestorm of controversy and prompted tens of thousands of people to take to the streets in nationwide protests Friday.
Through their statement, the judges join a widening list of leaders and activists from Egypt's political factions, including some Islamists, who have denounced the decree.

The Supreme Judicial Council is packed with judges appointed by former President Hosni Mubarak. It regulates judicial promotions and is chaired by the head of the Court of Cassation.

Their move reflects a broad sense of anger within the judiciary. Some judges' groups and prosecutors have already announced partial strikes to protest Morsi's decree.

Morsi has accused pro-Mubarak elements in the judiciary of blocking political progress. In the last year, courts have dissolved the lower house of parliament as well as the first panel drafting the constitution, both led by his Muslim Brotherhood group.

The edicts Morsi issued mean that no judicial body can dissolve the upper house of parliament or the current assembly writing the new constitution, which are also both led by the Brotherhood. Supporters of Morsi feared that court might in fact dissolve one of these bodies, further postponing Egypt's transition under the aegis of a new constitution.

They say Morsi has a mandate to guide this process as Egypt's first freely elected president, having defeated one of Mubarak's former prime ministers this summer in a closely contested election.

The judges' council's stand against the president sets the ground for an uneasy alliance between former regime officials and activist groups that helped topple Mubarak's regime and have in the past derided those officials as "felool," or remnants.

The presidents' opponents nonetheless see the judiciary as the only remaining civilian branch of government with a degree of independence, since Morsi already holds executive power and as well as legislative authority due to the dissolution of parliament.

The judges released their statement following an emergency meeting Saturday. They said Morsi's decision is an "unprecedented assault on the judiciary and it rulings" and called on the president to "distance himself from the declaration and all things that touch judicial authority, its specifications or interference in its members or its rulings."
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:17 PM   #46
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I think we handled Egypt as well as can be expected. I haven't heard much in the way of effective rebuttals to that, just blanket criticism from the usual suspects and some of the usual nonspecific pablum.
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
All we know for sure is that the option selected by Obama led to what is currently a MB dictatorship. Maybe he'll be able to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, but I'm not even sure he sees victory the same way pro-Americans do.
Your witness.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:24 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Your witness.
Your bar is pretty low if failure is "as well as can be expected".
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:26 PM   #48
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So, what should we have done differently?
We should have promised the people of Egypt 100 bucks a month in EBT cards and free Obama phones if they vote for the candidate that would have been our puppet.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:37 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
You left out an infinite number of other options. All we know for sure is that the option selected by Obama led to what is currently a MB dictatorship. Maybe he'll be able to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, but I'm not even sure he sees victory the same way pro-Americans do.

Oh, and btw, wrt "nonspecific pablum": scoreboard.
ok, mr. romney, name a few specific options that would have worked...

specific options...
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:42 PM   #50
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http://english.alarabiya.net/article...26/251886.html

This sounds like an opening gambit to negotiate.....assassinations.

A senior member of Egypt’s former militant Islamist group al-Gamaa al-Islamiya has warned that liberal politicians and intellectuals who oppose President Mohammed Mursi’s latest constitutional declaration could face a campaign of targeted assassinations starting from December.

Nageh Ibrahim, the ideologue of the Gamaa al-Islamiya, which took up arms against ousted president Hosni Mubarak’s regime in the 1980s, told Al Arabiya that his expectation “was based on an analysis of the political situation not on information.”

He said recent escalation of violence in different parts of the country, including successive attacks on security forces in Sinai, attacks on Muslim Brotherhood offices and on mosques, point to a possible bloody reaction against liberals.

Ibrahim first made his statement in an interview with the London-based Asharq al-Awsat, saying targeted assassinations against prominent liberals would be a “natural reaction” to violence and mistrust, and political polarization in Egypt.

And while he supported President Mursi’s latest decrees to consolidate his powers by making his decisions irrevocable by the judiciary, Ibrahim called for the president to include more civil and liberal figures in his government and take their demands into consideration when making decisions.

“Had the president included representatives of the civil powers in the new government, he would not have had so many enemies,” Ibrahim said.

“This has to be done before Egypt becomes divided, not only politically but possibly geographically as well.”
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:50 PM   #51
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I got say, I'm thoroughly shocked that these people weren't able to achieve a perfect democracy in matter of two years.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:56 PM   #52
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I got say, I'm thoroughly shocked that these people weren't able to achieve a perfect democracy in matter of two years.

Id be shocked if they ever do. Or for that matter, that they ever had that as a goal. Seems to me they are getting what they want.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:56 PM   #53
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ok, mr. romney, name a few specific options that would have worked...

specific options...
One option would have been to elect John McCain in 2008.

The idea that if some guy on a football messageboard doesn't present a specific course of action that everyone can agree would work then it proves that nothing could have led to a better result than what we got is ridiculous.

That said, I've already listed some of the levers we could have used to influence the situation. We should have tried to support Mubarack while pushing him to placate his people with political reforms. If that didn't work and Mubarack was going to step down, we could have supported a replacement from the military along with political liberalization. If that didn't work, we could have used our influence to encourage the military to insist on retaining a share of the power knowing that if push came to shove they could count on our support in the power struggle. If that didn't work, we could continue to use every aspect of our leverage, both overt and covert, to prevent ending up with a MB dictatorship. Instead, we did pretty much the opposite at each and every point. In the end, the scoreboard agrees with me, at least at this point.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:03 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
One option would have been to elect John McCain in 2008.

The idea that if some guy on a football messageboard doesn't present a specific course of action that everyone can agree would work then it proves that nothing could have led to a better result than what we got is ridiculous.

That said, I've already listed some of the levers we could have used to influence the situation. We should have tried to support Mubarack while pushing him to placate his people with political reforms. If that didn't work and Mubarack was going to step down, we could have supported a replacement from the military along with political liberalization. If that didn't work, we could have used our influence to encourage the military to insist on retaining a share of the power knowing that if push came to shove they could count on our support in the power struggle. If that didn't work, we could continue to use every aspect of our leverage, both overt and covert, to prevent ending up with a MB dictatorship. Instead, we did pretty much the opposite at each and every point. In the end, the scoreboard agrees with me, at least at this point.
it seems you have misapprehended my question...

i didn't ask for options that everyone agrees would have worked, i asked for options that YOU think would have worked...

and the suggestion that my question would somehow prove anything is just that - your suggestion...

putting words in my mouth is ridiculous...

painting strawmen as ridiculous is ridiculous...

have you joined the bep school of reasoning?
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:12 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
it seems you have misapprehended my question...

i didn't ask for options that everyone agrees would have worked, i asked for options that YOU think would have worked...

and the suggestion that my question would somehow prove anything is just that - your suggestion...

putting words in my mouth is ridiculous...

painting strawmen as ridiculous is ridiculous...

have you joined the bep school of reasoning?
OK, even if I misapprehended your question, you got an answer to the less ridiculous question you say you were asking.
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:05 PM   #56
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Carney helped clarify today. For all intents and purposes the administration seems to support Morsi. The dictatorial powers he has declared are his alone is a step on the road to democracy. Who would have known?

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...eliana-johnson

Asked whether the White House was forewarned about President Morsi’s power grab, Jay Carney said today that the administration has “expressed and raised concerns” about it. He also said that the power grab is part of Egypt’s “transition to democracy”:

“Our interest in the development and transition to democracy in Egypt is one that reflects what the Egyptian people demanded through their revolution, and continue to demand, which is a government that reflects the will of the people. And we will continue to work towards that goal, because it reflects what the Egyptian people want. ”
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:42 PM   #57
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The military still has massive power in Egypt. Right now you have a power play between the MB, the military, and the secularists. This will keep going on for awhile, I'm sure. The process of creating a new government from scratch is never pretty.

So you have to look at it in that context. Mursi was trying to stop the courts from dissolving the government again.

Anyway, what's the big deal? He made a statement, the public got pissed, and he had to walk it back. Isn't that how democracy works?
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:54 PM   #58
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Yeah, it is a power play but the military is the hidden govt there. They get enough aid from us to keep order there but not start a war with Israel.
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Old 11-26-2012, 06:08 PM   #59
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We can't really do anything if the MB want to impose a dictatorship..It isn't our place.

It is time to let the people decide....We can't win if we meddle and try to instill our version of democracy...

When shit goes wrong (and it will) they will have the USA to blame.

Nah...much better is to (as Obama is doing, and any other sane person) let them figure it out...sure we can make suggestions or lead by example...but hands off.

That way when shit goes wrong, it is on them.

There is nothing to gain long term by having a short term band-aid that rips open even worse when it comes off. Nothing.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:07 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
One option would have been to elect John McCain in 2008.

The idea that if some guy on a football messageboard doesn't present a specific course of action that everyone can agree would work then it proves that nothing could have led to a better result than what we got is ridiculous.

That said, I've already listed some of the levers we could have used to influence the situation. We should have tried to support Mubarack while pushing him to placate his people with political reforms. If that didn't work and Mubarack was going to step down, we could have supported a replacement from the military along with political liberalization. If that didn't work, we could have used our influence to encourage the military to insist on retaining a share of the power knowing that if push came to shove they could count on our support in the power struggle. If that didn't work, we could continue to use every aspect of our leverage, both overt and covert, to prevent ending up with a MB dictatorship. Instead, we did pretty much the opposite at each and every point. In the end, the scoreboard agrees with me, at least at this point.
Support Murbarack? You kidding?

Wellll it looks like the people don't want a dictator, even a muslim brotherhood dictator.
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