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Old 11-22-2012, 10:05 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Raising the retirement age of social security.

A really enlightening piece outlining some solid rebuttals to one of the more popular ideas for reforming social security.

It is often remarked in the media and by the wealthy that the retirement age should be raised. But that's because those who are making the arguments likely love their jobs, are living substantially longer than they were in the 1980s, and make enough bank so that they don't need to rely on social security when they retire.

None of that is true for the lower economic half of society. The lower economic half largely don't work jobs they want to work at forever, they aren't living that much longer than they were in 1980s, and of course will rely on social security when they retire.

The 1980s are worth noting because they were the latest overhaul of social security. People often argue that social security wasn't designed in the 1930s to deal with the 21st century. No... but it was redesigned in the 1980s. Since then, the rich have gotten richer while everybody else has essentially stayed the same.

Another relatively popular solution for social security solution, one that would make the program solvent for the rest of our and our children's lifetimes, would be to simply apply social security taxation to those making over $110,000.

But, of course, the 1% doesn't like that. So they prefer the methodology that hurts the bottom 50% instead.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...etirement-age/

Why rich guys want to raise the retirement age
Posted by Ezra Klein
on November 21, 2012 at 2:14 pm

If youíre the CEO of Goldman Sachs Ė if you have a job that you love, a job that makes you so much money you can literally build a Scrooge McDuck room where you can swim through a pile of gold coins wearing only a topcoat Ė then you should perhaps think twice before saying this:

Quote:
You can look at the history of these things, and Social Security wasnít devised to be a system that supported you for a 30-year retirement after a 25-year career. Ö So there will be things that, you know, the retirement age has to be changed. Maybe some of the benefits have to be affected, maybe some of the inflation adjustments have to be revised. But in general, entitlements have to be slowed down and contained.
Thatís Lloyd Blankfein, CEO of Goldman Sachs, talking to CBS. And heís not saying anything that people, particularly wealthier people with desk jobs, donít say all the time in Washington and New York. So I donít want to just pick on him. But the cavalier endorsement of raising the retirement age by people who really love their jobs, who make so much money they barely pay Social Security taxes, and who are, actuarially speaking, are ensured a long and healthy life, drives me nuts.

If you want talk about cutting Social Security, talk about cutting it. Itís a reasonable point of view. Youíre allowed to hold it.

But ďcuttingĒ Social Security is unpopular and people donít like to talk about it. So folks who want to cut the program have instead settled on an elliptical argument about life expectancy. Social Security, they say, was designed at a time when Americans didnít live quite so long. And so raising the retirement age isnít a ďcut.Ē Itís a restoration of the programís original purpose. It doesnít hurt anything or anyone.

The first point worth making here is that the countryís economy has grown 15-fold since Social Security was passed into law. One of the things the richest society the world has ever known can buy is a decent retirement for people who donít have jobs they love and who donít want to work forever.

The second point worth making is that Social Security was overhauled in the í80s. So the promises the program is carrying out today were made then. And, since the í80s, the idea that weíve all gained so many years of life simply isnít true.

Some of us have gained in life expectancy, of course. As you can see on this graph, since 1977, the life expectancy of male workers retiring at age 65 has risen six years in the top half of the income distribution. But if youíre in the bottom half of the income distribution? Then youíve only gained 1.3 years.



If youíre wealthy, you do have many more years to enjoy Social Security. But if youíre not, you donít. And so making it so people who arenít wealthy have to wait longer to use Social Security is a particularly cruel and regressive way to cut the program.

Itís also a cut thatís particularly tough on people who spend their lives in jobs they donít enjoy.

You know what age most people actually begin taking Social Security? Sixty-five is what most people think. Thatís the lawís standard retirement age. But thatís wrong. Most people begin taking Social Security benefits at 62, which is as early as the law allows you to take them.

When they do that, it means they get smaller benefits over their lifetime. We penalize for taking it early. But they do it anyway. They do it because they donít want to spend their whole lives at that job. Unlike many folks in finance or in the U.S. Senate or writing for the nationís op-ed pages, they donít want to work till they drop.

As Peter Diamond, the Nobel laureate economist and Social Security expert, told Dylan Matthews:

Quote:
What do we know about the people who retire at 62? On average, shorter life expectancy and lower earnings than people retiring at later ages. If anyone stood up and said, ďInstead of doing uniform across the board cuts, letís make them a little worse for people who have shorter life expectancies and lower earnings,Ē theyíd be laughed at. Anything that reduces benefits is going to hurt everybody. Itís going to hit people with short life expectancies, itís going to hit people with high life expectancies. But we should not make it worse for those retiring earliest.
Thatís whatís galling about this easy argument. The people who make it, the pundits and the senators and the CEOs, theyíll never feel it. They donít want to retire at age 65, and they donít have short life expectancies, and theyíre not mainly relying on Social Security for their retirement income. Theyíre bravely advocating a cut theyíll never feel.

But you know what they would feel? Social Security taxes donít apply to income over $110,000. In 2011, Lloyd Blankfeinís total compensation was $16.1 million. That means he paid Social Security taxes on less than 1 percent of his compensation.

If we lifted that cap, if we made all income subject to payroll taxes, the Congressional Budget Office estimates that it would do three times as much to solve Social Securityís shortfall as raising the retirement age to 70. In fact, it would, in one fell swoop, close Social Securityís solvency gap for the next 75 years. That may or may not be the right way to close Social Securityís shortfall, but somehow, it rarely gets mentioned by the folks who think theyíre being courageous when they talk about raising a retirement age theyíll never notice.

Again, I donít mean to pick on Blankfein here. Heís not saying anything unusual, and heís one of the CEOs whoís pretty straightforward about the fact that his taxes are going to need to go up. But he and all these folks who like to talk about raising the Social Security retirement age as if itís a no-brainer need to think harder about why theyíve settled on the cut to Social Security that will concentrate its pain on people who havenít fully shared in the remarkable increase in life expectancy, who donít make much money and who donít love going to their jobs every day.
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:48 PM   #31
RedNeckRaider RedNeckRaider is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
A narrow, targeted tax break means the government is subsidizing a favored activity, yes.
So they do not gain from me having health care? Wow I never dreamed I was taking advantage of our poor government I guess we are even and I guess they can keep the change~
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:57 PM   #32
Iowanian Iowanian is offline
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I'd prefer we allow people who have worked and produced for their entire lives to retire while they are still young enough to enjoy it a little bit. I'm perfectly fine supporting the widows and children of persons who die.


IF we're changing anything, start by removing payment to so many of those who could or SHOULD be earning their own way while they're still of working age.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:18 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
I'd prefer we allow people who have worked and produced for their entire lives to retire while they are still young enough to enjoy it a little bit. I'm perfectly fine supporting the widows and children of persons who die.


IF we're changing anything, start by removing payment to so many of those who could or SHOULD be earning their own way while they're still of working age.
Agreed, the system is loaded down with many freeloaders.

Yet, we ( the D's ) want to take on so many more in other ways?
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:49 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini View Post
There won't SS when I retire because morons like Bill Clinton stole from it.
You can't really blame this on Bill Clinton. The practice began in 1983 during the Reagan administration, and has been perpetuated by every President and every Congress since then because it masks the true size of the deficit.

I admire most things Reagan did. This is not one of them.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:42 PM   #35
Psyko Tek Psyko Tek is offline
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yeah I'll never live to collect
so who gives a crap
drop the limit tax everybody on it

my mom and dad are collecting and they are just middle class workers
so is one grandmother and an uncle

hell I may live that long

but get rid of the limit make all wages and "investments" taxable
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:56 PM   #36
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I think the cap should be removed but I also think it unfair for the percentage of income tax to go up as you make more money.
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