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Old 11-27-2012, 07:08 AM  
Mr_Tomahawk Mr_Tomahawk is offline
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In a few minutes...

...itll be interesting to hear his view on the draft. One of those who think there isn't a QB worth #1 overall in this draft.

Im at work tho...it'd be nice if someone posted the play-by-play.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:55 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
I'm not sure you'll find a bigger detractor (when it comes to Ryan) and I've never said he isn't a good QB.

I still don't believe he's an ELITE QB, however. Can't be oh-fer in the playoffs and be "elite".
Too much blame gets placed on one guy's shoulders for a team's failure, just like he'll get too much credit when he finally does win in January. And yes, I realize that statement can also be used as justification for not drafting a QB, but the point remains.

Although, frankly, even if he's not elite, at this point I'd rather have a really good QB like Ryan than an elite anything else. It's silly to try to win in today's NFL with Matt Cassel's and Brady Quinn's and Ricky Stanzi's. What I wouldn't give for another Trent Green, even. And a chance at a #1 pick and the opportunity for something more? How is it even a question? Draft the goddamn QB already...
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:57 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
I'm not sure you'll find a bigger detractor (when it comes to Ryan) and I've never said he isn't a good QB.

I still don't believe he's an ELITE QB, however. Can't be oh-fer in the playoffs and be "elite".
Joe Flacco's got a great post season record and I'd take Matt Ryan over Flacco every single time.

I don't know if Atlanta will win in the playoffs this year but I'd still take Ryan in heartbeat.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:03 PM   #138
htismaqe htismaqe is offline
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
Too much blame gets placed on one guy's shoulders for a team's failure, just like he'll get too much credit when he finally does win in January. And yes, I realize that statement can also be used as justification for not drafting a QB, but the point remains.
I think Ryan is a really good QB but the above argument works against him in my mind. He has some of THE best weapons in the game. There are no excuses left, he HAS to win one this year. Like I said, he's oh-fer in the playoffs. If he were .333 or .400 or even .250, we have discussion. He's .000. That's not good enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
Although, frankly, even if he's not elite, at this point I'd rather have a really good QB like Ryan than an elite anything else. It's silly to try to win in today's NFL with Matt Cassel's and Brady Quinn's and Ricky Stanzi's. What I wouldn't give for another Trent Green, even. And a chance at a #1 pick and the opportunity for something more? How is it even a question? Draft the goddamn QB already...
ABSOLUTELY agree.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:06 PM   #139
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I really don't understand why people say Smith is not a #1 pick guy. If you compare his stats to Andrew Luck Smith is really better.

For his career he as thrown 2 less picks while throwing it almost 400 more times. His completion percentage is identical to Lucks. I'm not trying to say Smith is as good as Luck, no way. Luck is the next great NFL QB.....a Manning, Brady, Montana type QB. But, Geno Smith has put together a very, very good college career and is the only person who should be considered for the #1 pick.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:06 PM   #140
htismaqe htismaqe is offline
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Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
Joe Flacco's got a great post season record and I'd take Matt Ryan over Flacco every single time.

I don't know if Atlanta will win in the playoffs this year but I'd still take Ryan in heartbeat.
Naturally, it's not all about the win/loss record, it's also about the performances in those games.

Neither of them has played particularly well in the postseason, but one of them has one because of their defense more often than not.

Until this season, they've both been solid game managers and not much more. Now, Ryan seems to have taken a step forward this season and that's what he needed to do to be considered truly "elite".
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:10 PM   #141
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Every one of the teams Ryan has lost to in the playoffs have all made the SB
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I have completely given up on Alex Smith as a qb. Its painful to watch. Like, worse than watching Colt McCoy.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:13 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
I think Ryan is a really good QB but the above argument works against him in my mind. He has some of THE best weapons in the game. There are no excuses left, he HAS to win one this year. Like I said, he's oh-fer in the playoffs. If he were .333 or .400 or even .250, we have discussion. He's .000. That's not good enough.
I wasn't talking about weapons as much how things happen in games that really have nothing to do with quarterback play. It's just the way things are, but I would bet that in the annals of "heroic QB comebacks" you can find key plays made by others that nobody even remembers, but that were just as important. Ditto for losses. So...too much blame, too much reward.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:14 PM   #143
htismaqe htismaqe is offline
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Originally Posted by Sorter View Post
Every one of the teams Ryan has lost to in the playoffs have all made the SB
Valid point.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:15 PM   #144
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bullshit. Geno Smith is a legit #1 overall pick and we better take him.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:16 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shox View Post
I really don't understand why people say Smith is not a #1 pick guy. If you compare his stats to Andrew Luck Smith is really better.

For his career he as thrown 2 less picks while throwing it almost 400 more times. His completion percentage is identical to Lucks. I'm not trying to say Smith is as good as Luck, no way. Luck is the next great NFL QB.....a Manning, Brady, Montana type QB. But, Geno Smith has put together a very, very good college career and is the only person who should be considered for the #1 pick.
He's black, which is still an issue (although maybe less so than a year ago with RG3's start), and he's at West Virginia. Put him in LA and he's probably consensus #1. Especially with those weapons and linemen. Not that Austin and Bailey aren't great in their own right.

Not that he won't have some work to do. But he's had a remarkable college career.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:20 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
He was physically limited coming into the NFL. He was the epitome of high floor/low ceiling.

Terrible pick by the Dolphins really.
I had always thought that Jake Long was a decent to good tackle.

Guess they had enough problems that a bad draft pick didn't seem to weigh on the mind of my friend thats a Dolphins fan...though this is the same guy who was PISSED when they passed on Quinn.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:21 PM   #147
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So Ryan is playoff caliber, but not Super Bowl caliber.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:26 PM   #148
htismaqe htismaqe is offline
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I had always thought that Jake Long was a decent to good tackle.

Guess they had enough problems that a bad draft pick didn't seem to weigh on the mind of my friend thats a Dolphins fan...though this is the same guy who was PISSED when they passed on Quinn.
He isn't bad but he's starting to decline as Dane said.

However, when you look at him and then look at Matt Ryan, THAT is ultimately what makes it a horrible pick.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:40 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
He's black, which is still an issue (although maybe less so than a year ago with RG3's start), and he's at West Virginia. Put him in LA and he's probably consensus #1. Especially with those weapons and linemen. Not that Austin and Bailey aren't great in their own right.

Not that he won't have some work to do. But he's had a remarkable college career.
If you are referring to USC's o-line...they suck and are a far cry from what is usually there.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:55 PM   #150
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alex smith has won a shit load of his last games. we'd only need 2 middle linebackers, 2 safeties, a corner, a passrusher, a center, a WR, and a running back all selected in the first 3 rounds to emulate the 49ers
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