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Old 11-27-2012, 07:05 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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So why does Israel prevent Gaza exports?

Though I disagree with it, I can understand why Israel would block imports to Gaza. Israel must watch out for its own safety, but there's no question in my mind that these measures which are designed to be preventative are carried out in ways that are clearly punitive to the Palestinian people in the wake of their election of Hamas.

But blocking exports from Gaza?

The article at the very end posits a couple different reasons for this, one of which is that this is punitive, to punish the Palestinian people for their sins against Israel and their embrace of Hamas. And while that may play into it, I think the article's other explanation is easier to consider: allowing Gaza to participate economically with its neighbors would at least nominally enrich it, as trade always does. It will increase its ties with its neighbors, and allow the Gazans to effectively function a little more as an autonomous state.

All of which would only aid Palestinians in their striving for their own state.

So, clearly this must be stopped.

Please, tell me how I'm how wrong/supportive of Hamas/anti-Semitic I am in thinking preventing Gazan exports is yet more evidence of the Likud's total indifference to the two-state solution.

And please tell me how Israel isn't inching closer to full-on apartheid of the Palestinian people.

http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...ockade/265565/

The Mainstream Media's Biased Coverage of the Gaza Blockade
By Robert Wright
Nov 25 2012, 10:34 PM ET

There's reason to hope that the ceasefire between Hamas and Israel will lead to an easing of Israel's suffocating economic blockade of Gaza. The ceasefire text said that "opening the crossings and facilitating the movements of people and transfer of goods... shall be dealt with after 24 hours from the start of the ceasefire." But, more than 100 hours later, we're still waiting for word of actual progress.

Meanwhile, if you're wondering where to turn for background information about the blockade, I have this guidance: stay as far away from mainstream media as possible.

Sadly typical of the way the MSM covers the issue is a recent New York Times piece about the ceasefire by David Kirkpatrick and Jodi Rudoren (both of whom have done excellent work on other issues in the region). The piece described the blockade as "Israel's tight restrictions on the border crossings into Gaza under a seven-year-old embargo imposed to thwart Hamas from arming itself."

Putting it this way is a real time saver, not just because it fits into a single short sentence, but because, if you're too busy to actually write that sentence, the Israeli government's press office would be happy to do it for you. But this description of the blockade raises a question:

If the essential purpose of the blockade were indeed to "thwart Hamas from arming itself," wouldn't restrictions on imports into Gaza suffice? (And even then the import restrictions wouldn't have to be as draconian as they were when imposed, or even as tight as they are now, after some loosening.) What I'd like to see an enterprising MSM reporter ask is: How do Israel's severe restrictions on Gazan exports keep arms from getting to Hamas?

Kirkpatrick and Rudoren, later in their piece, do elaborate a bit on Israel's motivation for imposing the blockade. But not enough. After raising the prospect that Egypt may open the Rafah crossing into Gaza, they write that "Israel enforces its embargo on the other sides of Gaza, fearing that it would face an influx of refugees or end up with responsibility for the impoverished enclave."

Fearing "an influx of refugees" doesn't explain why Israel won't let Gazans put whatever goods they want to export on a ship and send them across the Mediterranean to Europe or Africa. Nor, really, does this fear explain the other side of the export restrictions--not letting Gaza export much of anything to Israel or the West Bank. Making sure that exports were confined to goods, and didn't include people, would be readily doable. Israelis know a thing or two about how to set up an effective checkpoint.

The closest Kirkpatrick and Rudoren get to a plausible reason for the export restrictions is in positing an Israeli fear of winding up "with responsibility for the impoverished enclave." But even here they're not putting nearly a fine enough point on it. Here's the fine-point version:

Recall that a very plausible motivation for Ariel Sharon's withdrawal from Gaza in 2005 was to address "the demographic problem"--the fact that the number of Palestinians in the occupied territory, plus the number in Israel proper, was beginning to approach the number of Israeli Jews. That meant that if Israel's aggressive settlement program eventually led to Israel's absorption of the occupied territories, Israel wouldn't remain a Jewish state unless it were an apartheid state--i.e., unless it continued to deny Palestinian inhabitants of the occupied territories the right to vote. But once you remove Gaza from the equation, and define it as outside of the occupied territory, the math changes (though Gazans contend their territory is still, for practical purposes, occupied, since Israel controls the ports and airspace and the Israeli border and enters Gaza at will to kill Gazans). In this scenario--the divide and conquer scenario--the last thing Israel wants to do now is permit the sort of organic economic ties between Gaza and the West Bank that would make it easier to think of their Palestinian inhabitants as a single people.

There's one other possible motivation for Israel's severe restrictions on commerce involving Gaza: collective punishment. Maybe Israeli leaders want to keep all of Gaza impoverished as payback for the sins of Hamas. Maybe they even think that this impoverishment will lead Gazans to reject Hamas. If so, I have bad news: If Gazans reject Hamas, it will be in favor of Islamic Jihad or even more radical elements, in keeping with the general principle that imposing unjust suffering on people empowers extremists.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:41 PM   #46
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Well, yeah. The paradigm changed obviously when the "Palestinians" foolishly elected in a terrorist group to lead them in Gaza.

You think Israel should have kept the AMA agreement even after Hamas was elected into power?
My point is, it doesn't matter, because they weren't living up to it anyway.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:41 PM   #47
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For the most part, they are. They have no real money to buy weaponry.
And some aren't. So, keeping more money out of the hands of Hamas is beneficial to Israel.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:42 PM   #48
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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And some aren't. So, keeping more money out of the hands of Hamas is beneficial to Israel.
The amount of weaponry they're buying is nominal.

Almost all the weaponry they're using, they're using for free.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:42 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Well, yeah. The paradigm changed obviously when the "Palestinians" foolishly elected in a terrorist group to lead them in Gaza.

You think Israel should have kept the AMA agreement even after Hamas was elected into power?
There is always a market in the Middle East for idiots willing to blow themselves up in the hopes of getting laid. With the right marketing it could be very profitable if Israel will just get out of the way~
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:43 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
My point is, it doesn't matter, because they weren't living up to it anyway.
What's the source for your graph, BTW?
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:44 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
The amount of weaponry they're buying is nominal.

Almost all the weaponry they're using, they're using for free.
Really? Source?
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:58 PM   #52
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
What's the source for your graph, BTW?
UN OCHA, their Gaza Crossings Activity Database.

http://www.ochaopt.org/dbs/Crossings...spx?id=1010003
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:00 PM   #53
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UN OCHA, their Gaza Crossings Activity Database.

http://www.ochaopt.org/dbs/Crossings...spx?id=1010003
Thanks. And do you know why the number of crossings decreased in 2006?
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:02 PM   #54
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Really? Source?
Hamas doesn't have hardly any money, yet they're capable of launching thousands of rockets from mobile launchpads.

Did they buy thousands of mobile rocket launchers?
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:03 PM   #55
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Thanks. And do you know why the number of crossings decreased in 2006?
The point is, that even with Hamas in power, Israel had not come remotely close to living up to their end of the deal.

Prior to Hamas coming into power, prior to, they were still not meeting the restrictions they themselves agreed to.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:03 PM   #56
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Explain yourself.
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Explain yourself.
I assume you realize that when Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza and handed it over to the palestinians in another in their long line of efforts to make peace, they left behind an export business based on agriculture in the form of some massive greenhouses, right? The Gaza experiment in palestinian autonomy has been a huge failure through the self-destructive actions of the palestinians, not because of the big, bad Israelis or Likud.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:05 PM   #57
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I assume you realize that when Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza and handed it over to the palestinians in another in their long line of efforts to make peace, they left behind an export business based on agriculture in the form of some massive greenhouses, right? The Gaza experiment in palestinian autonomy has been a huge failure through the self-destructive actions of the palestinians, not because of the big, bad Israelis or Likud.
Can't export your business if your ability to do that is being strangled by the people in power.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:05 PM   #58
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Hamas doesn't have hardly any money, yet they're capable of launching thousands of rockets from mobile launchpads.

Did they buy thousands of mobile rocket launchers?
I don't have the break down of the type of rockets that Hamas launched at Israel recently. Do you?
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:05 PM   #59
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I don't have the break down of the type of rockets that Hamas launched at Israel recently. Do you?
I did at one point, when then conflict was going on. It was mostly shit rockets with no aiming capacity.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:06 PM   #60
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The point is, that even with Hamas in power, Israel had not come remotely close to living up to their end of the deal.

Prior to Hamas coming into power, prior to, they were still not meeting the restrictions they themselves agreed to.
And I'm asking you if you know WHY the levels didn't reach what was agreed to or not, even before Hamas came to power. You seem to blame Israel for that, correct?
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