Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-27-2012, 12:38 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $23964
Filibuster Reform Is Upon Us

dun dun DUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

Not really.

Harry Reid is seeking two reforms: kill the filibuster of the motion to proceed, and turn the non-speaking filibuster back into the speaking filibuster.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...0ab3_blog.html

Full speed ahead on filibuster reform?
By Greg Sargent
Posted at 05:04 PM ET, 11/26/2012

On the Senate floor today, Harry Reid offered the clearest confirmation yet that he will move forward with filibuster reform at the start of the new Congress. He confirmed he is proposing to “do away with filibusters on the motion to proceed,” which was already known. He added that under proposed reforms, Senators who want to filibuster will have to “stand up and talk about it.” That means Reid supports the “talking filibuster,” the proposal to force filibustering out into the open — on the theory that this will make it politically more difficult.

There’s some debate over whether the latter proposal is likely to be effective. Jonathan Bernstein has argued that it’s absurd to imagine that Republicans would balk at publicly holding the floor.

That aside, now that there will be a massive spin war over the meaning of reform — Mitch McConnell railed today that Dems are planning a “naked power grab” — it’s worth reiterating that there is a set of actual facts about GOP filibustering and the Dem response to it that shouldn’t get lost in all the false equivalence BS we’re certain to hear:

1) The extent of GOP filibustering is unprecedented. This chart shows that cloture motions (a rough measure of filibustering) suddenly spiked during the Obama years. Yes, they also spiked in 2007-2008, but according to Congressional scholar Norman Ornstein, the vast majority of those filibusters were mounted by Republicans, presumably to block legislation designed to embarrass George W. Bush. (Indeed, the motions to end filibusters during that period were filed mostly by Dems.)

2) The nature of GOP filibustering is unprecedented. Ornstein says this is true in two ways: First, in the extensive blockading of what used to be considered routine Senate business. And second, much of the filibustering is part of a concerted party strategy. “You’re not just looking at filibusters done by rogue senators or factions, like southern Democrats in the 1950s,” says Ornstein. “It’s the first time we’ve had a wide range of filibustering by a whole party.”

3) Filibuster reform would not do away with the minority’s ability to filibuster. The “talking filibuster” reform and the nixing of the filibuster on the motion to proceed would only make it harder to use procedural tactics, under cover of darkness, for the explicit purpose of stalling the Upper Chamber’s business. The minority would still be able to block the will of a simple majority on the vote to end debate. These are not very meaningful restrictions on the “rights” of the minority.

At any rate, now that Reid has made such a vocal push, it’s hard to imagine that Dems won’t move forward on day one of the new session to change the rules with a simple majority vote. Looks like it’s on.

***************************************

UPDATE: It’s also possible that unilateral action on the rules by Democrats to change the filibuster may not happen, if Dems and Republicans reach a deal. As Ornstein emails me:

Quote:
In 1975, we had the threat of one party action to change the rule, and it led to a bipartisan compromise. That could happen this time, despite the rhetoric — a bipartisan move to eliminate filibusters on the motion to proceed, a few more changes, and in return, a guarantee for the minority on at least some amendments on bills.
Posts: 46,884
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 08:44 PM   #31
donkhater donkhater is offline
Brilliant!!
 
donkhater's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Zionsville, IN, USA
Casino cash: $7634
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Both parties do that. Put in amendments to kill bills.
But why would they need to do that since they could just filibuster the bill?

Perhaps it isn't just poisoning the bill? Perhaps it's an attempt to debate the bill and propose amendments that benefit their constituents? and when they get shut out of that prossess they are left with no alternative?

Are Democrats deluded enough to think that a sleaze like Harry Ried isn't culpable in any of this?
__________________
The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants
Posts: 3,709
donkhater would the whole thing.donkhater would the whole thing.donkhater would the whole thing.donkhater would the whole thing.donkhater would the whole thing.donkhater would the whole thing.donkhater would the whole thing.donkhater would the whole thing.donkhater would the whole thing.donkhater would the whole thing.donkhater would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 08:45 PM   #32
whoman69 whoman69 is offline
The Master
 
whoman69's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
The filibuster is the most brilliant thing we have in our legislative process.
If you want nothing to get done, or the minority party setting the agenda.
__________________
-Watching Eddie Podolak
Quote:
Originally posted by Logical
When the boobs are a bouncin, the Chiefs will be trouncin
What the Raiders fan has said is true, our customs are different. What Al Davis has said is unimportant, and we do not hear his words.
Posts: 23,081
whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 09:36 PM   #33
JonesCrusher JonesCrusher is offline
Knock Knock
 
JonesCrusher's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Southeast Wisconsin
Casino cash: $6650
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
you think that now but wait till there is a republican president and the dems pay back the R's.
Word.... Which ones are the crips and which ones are the bloods?
Posts: 771
JonesCrusher must have mowed badgirl's lawn.JonesCrusher must have mowed badgirl's lawn.JonesCrusher must have mowed badgirl's lawn.JonesCrusher must have mowed badgirl's lawn.JonesCrusher must have mowed badgirl's lawn.JonesCrusher must have mowed badgirl's lawn.JonesCrusher must have mowed badgirl's lawn.JonesCrusher must have mowed badgirl's lawn.JonesCrusher must have mowed badgirl's lawn.JonesCrusher must have mowed badgirl's lawn.JonesCrusher must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 10:51 PM   #34
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
you think that now but wait till there is a republican president and the dems pay back the R's.
We've already seen that.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 10:52 PM   #35
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by donkhater View Post
But why would they need to do that since they could just filibuster the bill?

Perhaps it isn't just poisoning the bill? Perhaps it's an attempt to debate the bill and propose amendments that benefit their constituents? and when they get shut out of that prossess they are left with no alternative?

Are Democrats deluded enough to think that a sleaze like Harry Ried isn't culpable in any of this?
Amendments that the majority fears will be popular and might damage them politically to vote them down.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 09:29 AM   #36
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $23964
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
The filibuster is the most brilliant thing we have in our legislative process.
I agree the filibuster is a positive influence on government.

Remember Wisconsin's union-busting law? They don't have filibusters in a lot of state legislatures, so the minority's last-ditch move is to leave the state and hide out to prevent a quorum from being met.

If you tossed out the filibuster, instead of Republican filibusters, Republicans could hop on a ship and sail to international waters to avoid quorum.

The filibuster is decidedly less insane.

Which is why nobody's suggesting removing it.
__________________
Posts: 46,884
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 10:12 AM   #37
alnorth alnorth is offline
.
 
alnorth's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Iowania
Casino cash: $47373054
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
The filibuster is the most brilliant thing we have in our legislative process.
The founding fathers do not agree
__________________
<ptp> how many emo kids does it take to change a lightbulb?
<Willy> HOW MANY?!
<ptp> none they just sit in the dark and cry
Posts: 28,283
alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 10:15 AM   #38
alnorth alnorth is offline
.
 
alnorth's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Iowania
Casino cash: $47373054
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I agree the filibuster is a positive influence on government.

Remember Wisconsin's union-busting law? They don't have filibusters in a lot of state legislatures, so the minority's last-ditch move is to leave the state and hide out to prevent a quorum from being met.

If you tossed out the filibuster, instead of Republican filibusters, Republicans could hop on a ship and sail to international waters to avoid quorum.

The filibuster is decidedly less insane.

Which is why nobody's suggesting removing it.
There would be a huge political price to be paid for doing that. Obviously a senator from Utah or Alabama could do whatever, but from a competitive state, I can imagine the campaign commercials now about lazy, do-nothing Senator Smith who cant be bothered to go to work and do the job you elected him to do.
__________________
<ptp> how many emo kids does it take to change a lightbulb?
<Willy> HOW MANY?!
<ptp> none they just sit in the dark and cry
Posts: 28,283
alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.alnorth has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 10:49 AM   #39
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $23964
Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
There would be a huge political price to be paid for doing that. Obviously a senator from Utah or Alabama could do whatever, but from a competitive state, I can imagine the campaign commercials now about lazy, do-nothing Senator Smith who cant be bothered to go to work and do the job you elected him to do.
All due respect, but that doesn't seem to be much of a hinderance in state legislatures.
__________________
Posts: 46,884
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 01:58 PM   #40
whoman69 whoman69 is offline
The Master
 
whoman69's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
We've already seen that.
Who was that?
__________________
-Watching Eddie Podolak
Quote:
Originally posted by Logical
When the boobs are a bouncin, the Chiefs will be trouncin
What the Raiders fan has said is true, our customs are different. What Al Davis has said is unimportant, and we do not hear his words.
Posts: 23,081
whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 03:26 PM   #41
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoman69 View Post
Who was that?
Who was what?
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 04:01 PM   #42
Calcountry Calcountry is offline
Shoot the tube
 
Calcountry's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Where I am
Casino cash: $5605
Quote:
Originally Posted by FD View Post
I agree with returning to the true filibuster system. Let the minority have that ability to stop things, but make them stand on the floor and defend it, not just anonymously place a hold on anything and everything. I'm glad the Dems have come around on filibuster reform after fighting it in 2006.
__________________
Amerika, Amerika, I shed my grace on Thee.
Posts: 26,880
Calcountry 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliCalcountry 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliCalcountry 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliCalcountry 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliCalcountry 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliCalcountry 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliCalcountry 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliCalcountry 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliCalcountry 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliCalcountry 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliCalcountry 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitelli
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 04:14 PM   #43
Taco John Taco John is offline
12on Paul
 
Taco John's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2001
Casino cash: $10273
Rand Paul renews threat to filibuster the NDAA

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/29/ra...#ixzz2DeVyxeMc
__________________
Ehyeh asher ehyeh.
Posts: 51,271
Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Taco John is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 06:48 PM   #44
FD FD is offline
Veteran
 
FD's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Casino cash: $8555
Filibuster fans, do you think we should add it to the House rules?
__________________
Homer: [looking at watch] Two hours? Why'd they build this ghost town so far away?
Lisa: Because they discovered gold over there!
Homer: It's because they're stupid, that's why. That's why everybody does everything.
Posts: 3,600
FD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitelli
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 07:19 PM   #45
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $23964
Quote:
Originally Posted by FD View Post
Filibuster fans, do you think we should add it to the House rules?
Great question...
__________________
Posts: 46,884
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:43 PM.


This is a test for a client's site.
A new website that shows member-created construction site listings that need fill or have excess fill. Dirt Monkey @ https://DirtMonkey.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.