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Old 12-31-2011, 02:52 PM  
alnorth alnorth is offline
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2012 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread

2012 Slogan: Our Time

A better, more accurate 2012 Slogan: It is Finally Next Year
(from Great Expectations)

An alternative slogan if you don't like that one: Someone has to win this crappy division
(from alnorth)

With the beginning of a new year, it is time for the 2012 version of the Royals Repository Thread. We've got Hosmer, we've got a 2011-dominating Gordon, we've got Moose, we've got hopefully a killer bullpen, we've got a stereotypical slow slugging DH, we've got easily one of the best defensive shortstops in the AL, we've got a promising catcher in Salvador Perez. Hell, we've got offense and promising prospects galore.

We do not have starting pitching.

Oh yeah, we've also got this:



Get ready for, (as of January 2012 anyway), one of the most confusing puzzles of a baseball season in recent Royals history. Will they suck? Maybe, I don't know. Will we be given a year of 0.500 baseball? Possibly, I don't know. Will they win the division and go to the playoffs for the first time in 27 years? For the first time in a long time, it could happen, I don't know. 92 losses, 92 wins, or anything in between would not surprise a lot of us.

Everything goes here except Gameday threads and really big news. If a giant story breaks, the Royals achieve some awesome milestone, or we sign/lose a highly significant player/coach/mascot/whatever, then it might also deserve its own thread. This being Chiefs Planet, please do not clutter the board with new threads about trivial Royals news or you will only annoy those who come here for just Chiefs football. If you aren't sure and its not a Gameday thread, it goes here.

What sort of stuff often goes here? SPchief explained it well, so I'll just copy that:

Quote:
If you locate something of interest.. ANYTHING.. deals on apparel, best ways in/out of the stadium, giveaways, great stories from this season or from seasons gone by, rumors, trades, anything.... feel free to post it here.

Last edited by alnorth; 06-23-2012 at 10:54 PM..
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:43 PM   #9466
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I will say the same thing I've been sying re: Sanchez, Guthrie and Santana.

The Royals have $6 million of wiggle room towards their soft cap for this year. EVEN if they're still working within that range, there's no reason Sanchez's year 1 couldn't be lighter than the rest of the contract.

If his average is 15 million per year, you pay him $10 million this year and spread the extra $5 million out over the 4 or 5 years left on the contract.

Now, if only the Royals had a way to save $4 million really easy (bangs head against wall)...

You'd be tied to about $25 million a year for Guthrie and Sanchez for the next two years, but you'd also be able to shed salary from Francoeur ($6.5 million), Chen ($4.5 million), Santana ($12 million), and replace the third expensive pitcher's spot right away with a younger, cheaper arm like Duffy, Paulino, etc.

And trading Wil Myers straight up for James Shields would be really dumb for KC. Trading him AND another piece would be astronomically stupid. Screw Andrew Friedman.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:03 PM   #9467
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Originally Posted by Nightfyre View Post
Dealing Wil Myers would break the back of the Royals fanbase, imo. There would be blood curdling screams and complete apathy afterwards.
Haven't posted here in awhile, but this Myers trade talk is really starting to get to me. Like most of you, I don't think he should be untouchable, but should be pretty damn close. And especially shouldn't be traded for Shields.

As to your point, if we do Myers for Shields (or, God forbid, Myers + prospects), I'm done financially supporting the Royals until either Dayton gets fired or Glass sells the team. I'm one of the supposed "lost generation" of Royals fans and am not the only person my age who's in this boat. I know it won't mean anything to the team, but they've given me no reason to believe this is ever going to end well and I'm finally tired of it.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:06 PM   #9468
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Don't get too hung up on prospects, guys. I grant that it's a bit of a different situation, but it wasn't too long ago I was reluctant to part with Travis Snider and Kyle Drabek (who were considered to be just as good as Myers at the time) for Zach Greinke when that was rumoured. Look how that turned out. These guys aren't certainties.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:11 PM   #9469
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I'll put it on the line. This is GMDM putting smoke out there just to cause a fire. Meyers isn't going anywhere(GMDM) isnt that dumb, and the 4 way deal goes down on friday.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:15 PM   #9470
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Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
Don't get too hung up on prospects, guys. I grant that it's a bit of a different situation, but it wasn't too long ago I was reluctant to part with Travis Snider and Kyle Drabek (who were considered to be just as good as Myers at the time) for Zach Greinke when that was rumoured. Look how that turned out. These guys aren't certainties.
Heck, there are plenty of Royals fans who have already half given up on Hosmer, and it's not even been two full seasons.

But I'd agree with the idea that even if Myers/Hosmer/Moose turn out 100% better than expected, this team is not winning squat without a front line pitcher, or three. They just aren't. It'd be nice to sign a FA pitcher but DM can't sit on his hands forever.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:18 PM   #9471
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Going from a replacement level pitcher to James Shields is not going to be as big of a difference (especially in WAR) as going from Frenchy to Myers. Let alone the six years o team control.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:20 PM   #9472
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I'll put it on the line. This is GMDM putting smoke out there just to cause a fire. Meyers isn't going anywhere(GMDM) isnt that dumb, and the 4 way deal goes down on friday.
My God, I hope you're right.... But the bolded part is what's keeping my hope down.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:26 PM   #9473
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Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
Don't get too hung up on prospects, guys. I grant that it's a bit of a different situation, but it wasn't too long ago I was reluctant to part with Travis Snider and Kyle Drabek (who were considered to be just as good as Myers at the time) for Zach Greinke when that was rumoured. Look how that turned out. These guys aren't certainties.
Snider and Drabek were great prospects, but were either of them ever top 3 players? Did either of them either sweep Minor League Player of the Year awards? I saw someone post a list of players who had swept the MiPOTY from the big 3 publications earlier today (think it was on a Mets forum I got linked to). The WORST guy I remember from that list was Derek Bell.

Zack Greinke was also quite a bit better, younger, etc. than James Shields (if I recall correctly, our debates about Greinke to Toronto were mostly in the 2009 offseason/early 2010 season...

Drabek was top 30 in both years he was ranked, which is big leap from the top 3-5.

Now, I know Snider was No. 6 entering the 2009 season according to BA, but he never flashed the huge power in the minors that Myers did. Heck, in his season in Las Vegas, one of the best hitters parks in the minors, he only popped 14 home runs. They're similar prospects, but Myers' pedigree is a little bit better.

I'm fine with trading Myers IF the return is huge. But it doesn't make sense for KC to trade him for a guy already on the wrong side of 30, who isn't a true ace, who is only under contract for two more seasons.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:55 PM   #9474
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Snider and Drabek were great prospects, but were either of them ever top 3 players? Did either of them either sweep Minor League Player of the Year awards? I saw someone post a list of players who had swept the MiPOTY from the big 3 publications earlier today (think it was on a Mets forum I got linked to). The WORST guy I remember from that list was Derek Bell.
Snider was ranked ranked top 5 in MILB by some people, IIRC. He was the team's best position prospect since Baseball Prospectus cover boy Josh Phelps (another utter failure).

Had no idea Derek Bell was ranked that highly, BTW. The Jays got rid of him after the 1992 WS year and I guess he never reached his potential.

Quote:
Zack Greinke was also quite a bit better, younger, etc. than James Shields (if I recall correctly, our debates about Greinke to Toronto were mostly in the 2009 offseason/early 2010 season...
Yeah, Greinke is obviously the better pitcher. But their career numbers aren't too far apart (and Shields has been really good over the last two seasons). Guys like him don't become available that often.

Quote:
Now, I know Snider was No. 6 entering the 2009 season according to BA, but he never flashed the huge power in the minors that Myers did. Heck, in his season in Las Vegas, one of the best hitters parks in the minors, he only popped 14 home runs. They're similar prospects, but Myers' pedigree is a little bit better.
14 HR in 48 games with a .337/.431/.667 line at the age of 21 in AAA isn't too bad. Spent the rest of that year in the majors (and did pretty decently).

Quote:
I'm fine with trading Myers IF the return is huge. But it doesn't make sense for KC to trade him for a guy already on the wrong side of 30, who isn't a true ace, who is only under contract for two more seasons.
It really depends to me how close KC is to winning to me because value-wise that deal would seem pretty fair considering how good Shields is right now, his level of certainty, and the risk inherent in any prospect. I'm not that familiar with their situation, though. Would James Shields be enough to propel them into the playoffs over the next two seasons? If the team isn't at that stage yet and he wouldn't get them there, I don't see much point in trading Myers to do it.

Last edited by KC_Connection; 12-06-2012 at 12:03 AM..
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:04 AM   #9475
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Heck, there are plenty of Royals fans who have already half given up on Hosmer, and it's not even been two full seasons.

But I'd agree with the idea that even if Myers/Hosmer/Moose turn out 100% better than expected, this team is not winning squat without a front line pitcher, or three. They just aren't. It'd be nice to sign a FA pitcher but DM can't sit on his hands forever.
They definitely need to get pitching from somewhere. The bats are there. And no, I would definitely not give up on Hosmer now.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:05 AM   #9476
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Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
Snider was ranked ranked top 5 in MILB by some people, IIRC. He was the team's best position prospect since Baseball Prospectus cover boy Josh Phelps (another utter failure).



Yeah, Greinke is obviously the better pitcher. But their career numbers aren't too far apart (and Shields has been really good over the last two seasons). Guys like him don't become available that often.


14 HR in 48 games with a .337/.431/.667 line at the age of 21 in AAA isn't too bad. Spent the rest of that year in the majors (and did pretty decently).


It really depends to me how close KC is to winning to me because value-wise that deal would seem pretty fair considering how good Shields is right now and the risk inherent in any prospect. I'm not that familiar with their situation, though. Would James Shields be enough to propel them into the playoffs over the next two seasons? If the team isn't at that stage yet and he wouldn't get them there, I don't see much point in trading Myers to do it.
Fair enough on Snider (though that sweep of the POTY award was surprising to me, and good indication Myers will succeed). I guess I just don't place THAT much value on James Shields.

Shields has been a little better than a 2.0 WAR pitcher over his career. Over the past 3 years, he's at 5.1 WAR total, or a little less than 2.0 WAR/year.

The Royals would gain AT LEAST as much from a wins standpoint simply by replacing Jeff Francoeur (-2.1 WAR) with Wil Myers and having Myers perform at replacement level. If Myers is even slightly above average (say, 2.0 wins), you just gained 4 wins.

Shields isn't enough to put KC over the top, unless the Royals can get him in a fashion that DOESN'T involve Wil Myers. If the Royals were coming off an 85-win season instead of a 75-win season, it's a different story.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:16 AM   #9477
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Fair enough on Snider (though that sweep of the POTY award was surprising to me, and good indication Myers will succeed). I guess I just don't place THAT much value on James Shields.

Shields has been a little better than a 2.0 WAR pitcher over his career. Over the past 3 years, he's at 5.1 WAR total, or a little less than 2.0 WAR/year.
I think Shields is quite a bit better than his career numbers. He's certainly been a different pitcher the last two seasons and has kept the ball in the park. Very dependable in terms of his health too. I'd love to get him on the Jays, but it sounds they'd ask for Lawrie or something.

Quote:
The Royals would gain AT LEAST as much from a wins standpoint simply by replacing Jeff Francoeur (-2.1 WAR) with Wil Myers and having Myers perform at replacement level. If Myers is even slightly above average (say, 2.0 wins), you just gained 4 wins.
Are they really just going to stick Francoeur on the bench? It would be worth it. -2 WAR? That's worse than I thought. What an absolute shitbag.

Quote:
Shields isn't enough to put KC over the top, unless the Royals can get him in a fashion that DOESN'T involve Wil Myers. If the Royals were coming off an 85-win season instead of a 75-win season, it's a different story.
I see. Then there's no real point.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:27 AM   #9478
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Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
Don't get too hung up on prospects, guys. I grant that it's a bit of a different situation, but it wasn't too long ago I was reluctant to part with Travis Snider and Kyle Drabek (who were considered to be just as good as Myers at the time) for Zach Greinke when that was rumoured. Look how that turned out. These guys aren't certainties.
In fairness, someone knew that Snider was incredibly overrated and tried to tell you the same at the time...

Just sayin'.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:31 AM   #9479
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In fairness, someone knew that Snider was incredibly overrated and tried to tell you the same at the time...
Incredibly overrated? Back when he was killing AAA pitching and hitting MLB pitching at the age of 21/22 and ranked as one of the top prospects in the game by experts? I don't remember that argument being based in much of anything of substance or reasoning (if you even made it).

Prospects bust. It happens all the time. Though Snider is still young enough that he can forge a MLB career for himself.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:25 AM   #9480
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Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS

Would think #royals would have to give up more than just wil myers for big game james
Is Heyman just a dumbass, a troll, a puppet (of Boras), or all of the above?
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