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Old 03-08-2012, 11:50 AM  
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

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Old 12-09-2012, 07:48 AM   #3571
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Zimmerman's 911 call makes it clear how the situation started. He was in pursuit of Trayvon, which he fully admitted. The police statement says never at any point in time did Zimmerman say who he was or why he was following (e.g. "I am a concerned citizen. etc...) which is basic protocol. The 911 call suggests that Trayvon Martin saw Zimmerman after him and that he started to run.

No, I do not support what NBC did or the mob that went after Zimmerman. And I've said before, I support Zimmerman's right to carry and his act of self defense. But the initial situation clearly started because Zimmerman broke protocol. From there, you have to fill in the blanks of how Zimmerman acted once he hung up the phone. He claims he innocently just walked back to his car and then was jumped. His really long history drives me to the "opinion" that it's highly unlikely he gave up pursuit. Again, this is a short-tempered guy with a history of overzealously monitoring the neighborhood.
You have any links to this "long history" of Zimmerman that you keep alluding too?
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:10 AM   #3572
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Originally Posted by stonedstooge View Post
You have any links to this "long history" of Zimmerman that you keep alluding too?
I'm not going to go through links. There would be a lot.

What were his motives?
-He asked for a letter of recommendation to be in the police. He called 911 46 times to report non-emergencies (which is an abuse of the system, but I digress...). He was constantly asking police workers about their line of work. Pretty clear this guy badly wanted to be in the police.

How would he act in this situation?
-He was fired as a security guard for throwing a woman. He had one incident under his record for assaulting a police officer, a charge which was eventually bargained down. He has charges of domestic violence and one of creating a disturbance when he refused to pay for catering. Was he angry at Trayvon the night of the shooting? Yes, he called him an asshole that got away.


So again. Did Zimmerman create the situation? Yes, the 911 call indicates Trayvon spotted Zimmerman and ran. Did Zimmerman escalate the situation? You look at his motives and behavior and do the math. This is a guy with a short fuse with history of trying to take matters into his own hands. From there, they somehow got tangled up, Trayvon then acted violently and Zimmerman justifiably had to defend himself by shooting. But again, they likely do not get tangled up if Zimmerman follows basic protocol, which he did not.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:11 AM   #3573
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Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco View Post
Its been long enough, go re-read the story. The wiki page does a nice job and you'll understand why Zimmerman did what he did. The neighborhood was constantly getting robbed. Zimmerman wasn't wrong for what he did.
He did not follow basic protocol that a man with his experience had no excuse not to follow. He worked in security, was trained on being a neighborhood watch patrol, and was obsessed with police work.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:25 AM   #3574
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Yeah, how dare a 16 year old be out at 7PM!

And how dare he feel threatened when some random armed man starts following him for no reason.

I'm sure you would have no problem if some strange man followed you "that late" at night.
This isn't just some 16 year old kid. This is a known thug who has been suspended from school for drugs and had been caught breaking into lockers with a screwdriver and stealing from them.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:25 AM   #3575
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You have to look at it from different angles. At the same time, how would you feel if you had an overzealous neighbor who called 911 every time you threw a party or called 911 every time you had a visitor whose car he didn't recognize? How would you feel if on a dark night, this guy you didn't know or recognize suddenly started following you around and never at any point did you know who this guy was? (If you have dangerous people on the street with guns, wouldn't you be scared that maybe the person following him was trying to kill you?)

I understand that there was increased security around there and everyone should be looking out for each other, but that doesn't give license for vigilantes to go rogue and try to be the cops themselves.
If that was the way his neighbors felt about him, they wouldn't have made him the neighborhood watch captain.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:36 AM   #3576
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
If that was the way his neighbors felt about him, they wouldn't have made him the neighborhood watch captain.
My understanding is that Zimmerman was pretty much self-appointed. It showed up in a newsletter and, bam, suddenly he's the captain. Not sure if that was then put to a vote, but it seems that this was an appointment made by a few people.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:43 AM   #3577
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
This isn't just some 16 year old kid. This is a known thug who has been suspended from school for drugs and had been caught breaking into lockers with a screwdriver and stealing from them.
And Zimmerman isn't just some neighborhood watch person. This is a guy with a history of having a short fuse, an almost creepy obsession with police work, and enough knowledge about protocol to know what rule he was breaking.

You're right in what you say. But you have to look at both parties. Again, I speculate (opinion) that both parties were doing things they shouldn't have.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:10 AM   #3578
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Both sides of this debate have shown poor form. I am glad the thread title was not changed. Those who were desperate to make this a white vs.. black killing like the idiot who started this thread showed their own racism. The kill pinky nonsense was disgusting although fully expected when shitbags like Sharpton and the black panthers are involved. The crowd that feebly wanted this to be an anti gun story failed miserably.

The other side who jumped on the Zimmerman is a hero team should be ashamed of themselves. There is a large group of them who were in a frenzy to cheer a back kid in a hoodie getting shot as some sort of heroic act against thugs are nothing more than racist pricks also. I have read that this kid was no angel but he sure as heck did not need to die. When I was his age I was no angel either, like the song "you don't have to dig to deep to find some dirt on me". If some clown was jacking with me when I was just walking home I can guarantee I would have tried to kicked the guys ass also.

Zimmerman ain't no hero, he went out of his way to confront this kid. I don't have a doubt in my mind if he did not have a gun he would have stayed in his car. I think he is a chickenshit wanna be badass and nothing more. I fully support gun rights and if threatened with no other option shooting someone. He was not threatened until he initiated the confrontation. He should have kept his wanna be cowboy ass in his car and let the police handle this. I don't know how this is going to turn out but forgive me if I pass on cheering for this clown~
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:18 AM   #3579
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Both sides of this debate have shown poor form. I am glad the thread title was not changed. Those who were desperate to make this a white vs.. black killing like the idiot who started this thread showed their own racism. The kill pinky nonsense was disgusting although fully expected when shitbags like Sharpton and the black panthers are involved. The crowd that feebly wanted this to be an anti gun story failed miserably.

The other side who jumped on the Zimmerman is a hero team should be ashamed of themselves. There is a large group of them who were in a frenzy to cheer a back kid in a hoodie getting shot as some sort of heroic act against thugs are nothing more than racist pricks also. I have read that this kid was no angel but he sure as heck did not need to die. When I was his age I was no angel either, like the song "you don't have to dig to deep to find some dirt on me". If some clown was jacking with me when I was just walking home I can guarantee I would have tried to kicked the guys ass also.

Zimmerman ain't no hero, he went out of his way to confront this kid. I don't have a doubt in my mind if he did not have a gun he would have stayed in his car. I think he is a chickenshit wanna be badass and nothing more. I fully support gun rights and if threatened with no other option shooting someone. He was not threatened until he initiated the confrontation. He should have kept his wanna be cowboy ass in his car and let the police handle this. I don't know how this is going to turn out but forgive me if I pass on cheering for this clown~
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:46 AM   #3580
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
If the neighborhood was constantly getting robbed, then you don't see the obvious that Trayvon Martin walking home seeing a suspicious guy that's following him home might think there was a creepy guy trying to murder and rob him?

All Zimmerman had to do was follow basic protocol and none of this would have happened.
An unarmed person shouldn't turn around and confront a guy who he think's might be trying to murder and rob him.

I just can't find any strength in your position on this. You might not like Zimmerman's history or the whole idea of armed citizens, but there was nothing wrong with Zimmerman keeping an eye on his own neighborhood while armed nor with following a suspicious character. None of that justifies the confrontation that Martin started.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:47 AM   #3581
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This isn't just some 16 year old kid. This is a known thug who has been suspended from school for drugs and had been caught breaking into lockers with a screwdriver and stealing from them.
Oh, then that makes it perfectly okay for armed men to follow them at night. Never know what kind of heinous crime those locker breaking potheads might commit next.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:58 AM   #3582
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Oh, then that makes it perfectly okay to armed men to follow them at night. Never know what kind of heinous crime those locker breaking potheads might commit next.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:59 AM   #3583
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An unarmed person shouldn't turn around and confront a guy who he think's might be trying to murder and rob him.
What exactly should he do? Just keep walking and pray he doesn't get shot in the back?

That's pretty unreasonable.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:06 AM   #3584
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
An unarmed person shouldn't turn around and confront a guy who he think's might be trying to murder and rob him.

I just can't find any strength in your position on this. You might not like Zimmerman's history or the whole idea of armed citizens, but there was nothing wrong with Zimmerman keeping an eye on his own neighborhood while armed nor with following a suspicious character. None of that justifies the confrontation that Martin started.
I don't carry a gun. If some asshole was following me around you bet your ass I am going to ask him what the **** his problem is. Unless he is a law endorsement officer he will not detain me or question me. In your world that means I deserve to be shot
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:25 AM   #3585
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
An unarmed person shouldn't turn around and confront a guy who he think's might be trying to murder and rob him.

I just can't find any strength in your position on this. You might not like Zimmerman's history or the whole idea of armed citizens, but there was nothing wrong with Zimmerman keeping an eye on his own neighborhood while armed nor with following a suspicious character. None of that justifies the confrontation that Martin started.
I don't have a problem with armed citizens. Most people I know that conceal and carry are unbelievably responsible. They know it's a last resort and they know protocol so well that they get preachy. It's not supposed to be a piece you carry so you can enforce your own form of personal justice. Neighborhood watch protocol clearly states that you shouldn't carry and you absolutely should NEVER create situations where you have to use a gun. I'm sorry, he broke an unbelievable amount of protocol and if he got beat up... well, maybe he should have been smarter about how he handled it.

And how do you know that Martin started the confrontation? There is nothing but "fill in the blanks" to figure out what happened between the phone call and the confrontation.
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