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Old 03-08-2012, 11:50 AM  
Bump Bump is offline
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

Last edited by Bump; 07-12-2013 at 11:19 PM..
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:11 PM   #3646
KChiefer KChiefer is offline
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
Answer me.... How many times will you let T pound your head into the concrete before you shoot?
Likely not many. Here's the deal though. I'm not a cop, therefore, unless I see someone actively committing a crime, I will not arm myself and confront them.

Arming yourself and confronting Joe Schmo is something paranoid, small men do.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:12 PM   #3647
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
I just want to know at what point does it change from getting your ass kicked to possibly losing your life...
I am not an expert on this, so you're asking the wrong guy. I don't have a problem with Zimmerman using a firearm once he felt his life was in danger, which was probably even before his head was bashed to the ground. Again, I am not opposed to guns being used for self defense.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:13 PM   #3648
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Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
Does it matter? Z knew that what he was doing could start a conflict that would be better handled by the police whether Tray was armed or not.

The fact remains, you're accusing someone of having small man syndrome while backing the idea that people have the right to shakedown every Tom, Dick, and Harry that they come across, and if it doesn't go the way of an episode of Dragnet where the punk gets slammed against the wall, the watchman can kill someone. That is the definition of small-man syndrome -- you can kick my ass for accosting you, but I will shoot you, so I have the right to accost you.
You are acting as if Z pulled out his gun and ordered him to freeze Dude he lost the kid, he went back to his vehicle and Trayvon doubled back and jumped him. Slamming someone against the wall does not justify deadly force, slamming a head into concrete does. When you legitimately fear your life is in danger in an assault you can legally shoot someone.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:17 PM   #3649
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
I am not an expert on this, so you're asking the wrong guy. I don't have a problem with Zimmerman using a firearm once he felt his life was in danger, which was probably even before his head was bashed to the ground. Again, I am not opposed to guns being used for self defense.
Look you are not a dumbass like alot of these idiots are because you atleast do understand that a man that is in the act of someone committing felony assault on him is justified in using deadly force to defend himself, people get emotionally attached to this case because he was a 16 yr old kid even though he was a big kid, he was still a kid. The law is written for the people to defend themselves, would I rather Z had shot him in the shoulder or leg? Of course but if nothing else comes of this I hope it teaches people that Violence is not the answer with people you disagree with. Keep your hands off people.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:20 PM   #3650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
Put yourself in the situation....

I am basically a rent a cop, I just got my carry license and I have been dreaming of being a cop, I am kinda nerdy.
I see this kid that looks suspicious, I get in my car, follow him trying to be a hero and look out for the neighbors homes. I call the cops, they tell me not to pursue but I do not have to take orders from a 911 operator, adrenaline pumping now, he is walking faster and I lose site of him, I go back to my car and then he confronts me, Busts me in the face, then dives on me and beats me then grabs my head and starts pounding it into the concrete, head splits open, I am scared, and I can't see.. I know my gun is on my hip, I pull it out and fire... This is what I think happened
THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BE CARRYING A GUN!!! You just got your adrenaline going because someone was walking down the street.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:23 PM   #3651
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Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BE CARRYING A GUN!!! You just got your adrenaline going because someone was walking down the street.
Hell my adrenaline gets flowing when I fondle my gun man wtf
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:26 PM   #3652
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Well the evidence says the neighborhood was expericing a high rate of crime. It's documented. Heck, they even created a neighborhood watch. Zimmerman was justified in investigating.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:26 PM   #3653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
...When you legitimately fear your life is in danger in an assault you can legally shoot someone.
Yeah, and you want to extrapolate that into it being ok to put yourself in that position by accosting anyone you want.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:41 PM   #3654
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
Put yourself in the situation....

I am basically a rent a cop, I just got my carry license and I have been dreaming of being a cop, I am kinda nerdy.
I see this kid that looks suspicious, I get in my car, follow him trying to be a hero and look out for the neighbors homes. I call the cops, they tell me not to pursue but I do not have to take orders from a 911 operator, adrenaline pumping now, he is walking faster and I lose site of him, I go back to my car and then he confronts me, Busts me in the face, then dives on me and beats me then grabs my head and starts pounding it into the concrete, head splits open, I am scared, and I can't see.. I know my gun is on my hip, I pull it out and fire... This is what I think happened
The problem with this scenario is that you assume Zimmerman was completely innocent the minute he hung up the phone.

The story that he gave up pursuit is completely unbelievable. It doesn't jive with anything we've seen from how he handled this situation in the past. Here's what I think happened. Zimmerman pursues Trayvon. Trayvon has no idea who Zimmerman is and runs away in fear. Trayvon then makes a stupid decision to handle the situation, instead of retreating to shelter. Zimmerman makes the stupid decision to ignore protocol and continue to pursue Trayvon (he hates when "assholes" get away, he doesn't want to look stupid when police roll in and the guy got away, and he wants to be the hero that nabbed the guy who was causing trouble). Zimmerman stupidly continues to pursue and then gets jumped and, for the first time in his life, realizes he provoked a fight he can't win. And then the confrontation happened. Quite possible in between then, one or both talked a little bit of shit.

Sorry, the idea that Zimmerman innocently went back to his car because he gave up doesn't hang together given everything you know about his history.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:42 PM   #3655
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Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
Yeah, and you want to extrapolate that into it being ok to put yourself in that position by accosting anyone you want.
Still does not justify Felony Assault no matter what stupid albeit legal thing he did.

The key part of this case is who did what illegally first to justify the actions taken by the other party.

Following someone does not justify felony assault.
Pounding a Mans head on the pavement Justifies Deadly Force.

Get my pattern here?
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:42 PM   #3656
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Well the evidence says the neighborhood was expericing a high rate of crime. It's documented. Heck, they even created a neighborhood watch. Zimmerman was justified in investigating.
Investigating is fine. Taking matters into your own hands is another thing, especially when you do that while carrying a firearm.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:44 PM   #3657
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
The problem with this scenario is that you assume Zimmerman was completely innocent the minute he hung up the phone.

The story that he gave up pursuit is completely unbelievable. It doesn't jive with anything we've seen from how he handled this situation in the past. Here's what I think happened. Zimmerman pursues Trayvon. Trayvon has no idea who Zimmerman is and runs away in fear. Trayvon then makes a stupid decision to handle the situation, instead of retreating to shelter. Zimmerman makes the stupid decision to ignore protocol and continue to pursue Trayvon (he hates when "assholes" get away, he doesn't want to look stupid when police roll in and the guy got away, and he wants to be the hero that nabbed the guy who was causing trouble). Zimmerman stupidly continues to pursue and then gets jumped and, for the first time in his life, realizes he provoked a fight he can't win. And then the confrontation happened. Quite possible in between then, one or both talked a little bit of shit.

Sorry, the idea that Zimmerman innocently went back to his car because he gave up doesn't hang together given everything you know about his history.
No I think he was justified according to the way the law is written...

I am no Z fan.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:45 PM   #3658
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Investigating is fine. Taking matters into your own hands is another thing, especially when you do that while carrying a firearm.
he didn't, Trayvon out ran him and doubled back to Z, again you act as if Z pulled the gun out and ordered him to freeze.

He is licensed to carry that gun and can do so anywhere that it is legal... You have no clue about gun laws do you?
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:48 PM   #3659
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You are kinda acting like it's not fair for someone to carry a gun unless another person is carrying a weapon as well... How did Z know T was not going to pull out a knife and slit his throat or stabbing him while beating him? Do you wait then react or react and live?
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:48 PM   #3660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
Still does not justify Felony Assault no matter what stupid albeit legal thing he did.

The key part of this case is who did what illegally first to justify the actions taken by the other party.

Following someone does not justify felony assault.
Pounding a Mans head on the pavement Justifies Deadly Force.

Get my pattern here?
I see a pattern that you're ok with armed vigilantes and not ok with someone defending themselves from a stranger that is accosting them. That's something we should teach our children. Don't fight back, just get in the van. On the flip side, if you see someone walking down the street, arm yourself and catch them.
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