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Old 03-08-2012, 11:50 AM  
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

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Old 12-10-2012, 02:35 AM   #3706
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Originally Posted by Chiefspants View Post
Sorry, I have better things to do than to be a volunteer sheriffs deputy, if I ever did see suspicious activity, I'd call 911, report the location of the perpetrator, and seeing that the police are hired to handle these types of situations, that would be it.

However, I would NOT keep pursuing the person in question to potentially endanger a potentially innocent suspect or myself in the situation. That's nothing short of common sense, I'd say.
They did not even ASK zimmerman to stop pursuing. They said you don't need to....

This particular case turned out very badly.....but I mean its not like this happens all of the time...(its very very rare)

We as citizens have the right to defend and protect our homes, and neighborhoods.

Theres gonna be a trayvon martin/GZ every once in a while, because we are free to own weapons and protect ourselves.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:37 AM   #3707
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
They did not even ASK zimmerman to stop pursuing. They said you don't need to....

This particular case turned out very badly.....but I mean its not like this happens all of the time...(its very very rare)

We as citizens have the right to defend and protect our homes, and neighborhoods.

Theres gonna be a trayvon martin/GZ every once in a while, because we are free to own weapons and protect ourselves.
And Zimmerman did, and if he didn't anticipate the potential consequences of that decision, that's on him. At the end of the day, this entire situation could have been avoided.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:41 AM   #3708
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Originally Posted by Chiefspants View Post
Look, I am unsure if Zimmerman is guilty, but here is what we know, Z chose to act like a "heroic" volunteer sheriff, took someone else's life, and is receiving the consequences for killing a person in a situation that could have been avoided.
When you kill someone, there are consequences. That's true.

But you are leaving out that when you attack someone, for simply asking what theyre doing in your neighborhood , there are also consequences.

For you to sit there and act like one should have dire consequences and the other should have none is dishonest and hypocritical.

Any time you lay your hands on another man, you escalate things to a level that you may wish you didn't.

You wanna say Zimmerman is reaping the 'reward' for taking a life...Fine...SO be it.

Then you have say Trayvon is reaping the reward for his dumb actions as well, based on the evidence.

You can't have it both ways.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:43 AM   #3709
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
When you kill someone, there are consequences. That's true.

But you are leaving out that when you attack someone, for simply asking what theyre doing in your neighborhood , there are also consequences.

For you to sit there and act like one should have dire consequences and the other should have none is dishonest and hypocritical.

Any time you lay your hands on another man, you escalate things to a level that you may wish you didn't.

You wanna say Zimmerman is reaping the 'reward' for taking a life...Fine...SO be it.

Then you have say Trayvon is reaping the reward for his dumb actions as well, based on the evidence.

You can't have it both ways.
There's a difference, we have solid evidence of what was said to Zimmerman before the confrontation. What we do not have, is evidence of how Zimmerman approached Trayvon and how that conflict escalated.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:45 AM   #3710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefspants View Post
There's a difference, we have solid evidence of what was said to Zimmerman before the confrontation. What we do not have, is evidence of how Zimmerman approached Trayvon and how that conflict escalated.
Theres a lot of evidence...

There is no scraping or cuts on zimmermans hands...

There are scraping and cuts on martins hands, as well as lacerations on the face and head, bloody/broken nose, and damage to theback of his head.

There was nothing other than a gunshot to martin.

You just don't want to SEE the evidence.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:48 AM   #3711
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Theres a lot of evidence...

There is no scraping or cuts on zimmermans hands...

There are scraping and cuts on martins hands, as well as lacerations on the face and head, bloody/broken nose, and damage to theback of his head.

There was nothing other than a gunshot to martin.

You just don't want to SEE the evidence.
Excuse me, but that isn't evidence of the actual conversation between the two men. We have no idea if Zimmerman threatened Trayvon (or said THE POLICE are coming) to cause the situation to explode.

We simply don't know what happened here, and we likely won't know any further details until this case hits trial.

Until then, we're simply going to have to wait and see.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:51 AM   #3712
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Originally Posted by Chiefspants View Post
Excuse me, but that isn't evidence of the actual conversation between the two men. We have no idea if Zimmerman threatened Trayvon (or said THE POLICE are coming) to cause the situation to explode.

We simply don't know what happened here, and we likely won't know any further details until this case hits trial.

Until then, we're simply going to have to wait and see.
Excuse me, In America, people are innocent until proven guilty. Maybe you should take your own advice and stfu then. You are the one claiming the guy 'deserves' this. You are a piece of shit....he deserves a fair trial before the sheeple idiots of the world like you run around saying he deserves this shit.

The burden of proof is on the PROSECUTION. Do you not get that? My god. What you are saying only helps Zimmerman's defense...
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:54 AM   #3713
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I supposed he deserved NBC to edit the audio tape to try and make him look racist?

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/nationa...ournalism-sues

I hope he wins millions.....then I might agree with you that he deserves it.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:56 AM   #3714
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Excuse me, In America, people are innocent until proven guilty. Maybe you should take your own advice and stfu then. You are the one claiming the guy 'deserves' this. You are a piece of shit....he deserves a fair trial before the sheeple idiots of the world like you run around saying he deserves this shit.

The burden of proof is on the PROSECUTION. Do you not get that? My god. What you are saying only helps Zimmerman's defense...
How did I imply Zimmerman's guilt with any of this? We know he killed someone, that's a fact, what we don't know is whether or not what he did will convict him of murder.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:59 AM   #3715
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
I supposed he deserved NBC to edit the audio tape to try and make him look racist?

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/nationa...ournalism-sues

I hope he wins millions.....then I might agree with you that he deserves it.
Horrendous that NBC would resort to such tactics, but again, it wouldn't of happened had he not pursued Trayvon.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:05 AM   #3716
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Originally Posted by Chiefspants View Post
but again, it wouldn't of happened had he not pursued Trayvon.
So dumb...

Yes so lets go back to the skittles then...

Trayvon shouldnt have been out so late and this wouldnt have happened...

Skittles are the cause..

Thats why your logic is faulty. The cause would be the FIRST person to violate the LAW.

You and I both agree we don't know who violated the LAW first.

That is what the trial will determine.......

If Trayvon acted in self defense, and had a right to assault Zimmerman, that will be found.

If Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman and got shot because Z was defending himself, that will be found.

Your assertation that simply lawfully pursuing Trayvon caused this is as stupid, as ridiculous, and completely absurd as saying Trayvon's love of skittles caused this because if he werent out getting skittles he would be alive.

It is an intellectual cop-out.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:17 AM   #3717
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
So dumb...

Yes so lets go back to the skittles then...

Trayvon shouldnt have been out so late and this wouldnt have happened...

Skittles are the cause..

Thats why your logic is faulty. The cause would be the FIRST person to violate the LAW.

You and I both agree we don't know who violated the LAW first.

That is what the trial will determine.......

If Trayvon acted in self defense, and had a right to assault Zimmerman, that will be found.

If Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman and got shot because Z was defending himself, that will be found.

Your assertation that simply lawfully pursuing Trayvon caused this is as stupid, as ridiculous, and completely absurd as saying Trayvon's love of skittles caused this because if he werent out getting skittles he would be alive.

It is an intellectual cop-out.
Here's the problem, going out late isn't illegal.

The dispatcher told George he did not have to pursue Trayvon, he did despite this. and had a conversation with Trayvon of which we do not know the details. This means that we do not know if Zimmerman's confrontation of Trayvon was legal or illegal, all we know is that Zimmerman ended up killing Martin.

So what we know about this is:

1. Zimmerman was told he didn't have to pursue Trayvon
2. He did
3. There was some sort of confrontation (The details of which we're still unsure)
4. Zimmerman was getting badly beaten.
5. He shoots Trayvon in response.

If Zimmerman doesn't pursue Trayvon (one), two-five of what we know would have never occurred.

He did, and he's experiencing a harsh set of consequences.

(On the note of NBC, it's possible they will be hit with consequences for their conduct as well, I'm not saying I'm against that, as stated before, the courts will decide the innocence or guilt in both instances.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:22 AM   #3718
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Originally Posted by Chiefspants View Post
Here's the problem, going out late isn't illegal.
Neither is pursuing someone or asking them what they are doing....Please re-read my last post a few times.

You want to make this about the pursuit....thats fine, you will lose on this issue, since it is not illegal to do so.

This case is going to revolve around who got physical, 1st and whether or not the escalation was justified.

You simply cannot punch a guy in the face for pursuing you to ask a question. I'm not saying that is what happened, but if it did...Zimmerman walks.

You seem to think that because Zimmerman pursued him and asked him a question , Trayvon had some right to get physical.....

You are not correct.

The pursuit didnt cause the death....

Whoever got physical (broke the law) 1st caused it.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:28 AM   #3719
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
This case is going to revolve around who got physical, 1st and whether or not the escalation was justified.
This is what I've been saying for the last page.

But this doesn't erase any of my logic on this issue, Zimmerman was told he did not have to pursue Trayvon, he did, and invited this situation onto himself. (As in, he chose to chase an individual he himself thought was suspicious, when the police could have surely handled this situation more appropriately)

Whatever, this is degenerating into the same argument every side has been having for the last months.

The final and only words that matter now will be the innocence/guilt decided at the conclusion of the trial.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:31 AM   #3720
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Originally Posted by Chiefspants View Post
This is what I've been saying for the last page.
No, it isn't.

You are saying that the act of pursuit is what caused this incident.

I am saying that the line is not crossed yet at simply pursuit.

There is a huge difference between pursuit and asking a question and the HUGE RED LINE of physical combat, which can easily spiral out of control.

What I am saying is the CAUSE is not the pursuit by Zimmerman, but whoever crossed that huge red line, into the zone of physical combat.


You keep saying the opposite.
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