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Old 03-08-2012, 11:50 AM  
Bump Bump is offline
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

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Old 12-10-2012, 06:02 PM   #3766
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
Pursuing and confronting are miles apart in definition... Until z is close enough to touch him he is not a threat... This forum has some stupid mother ****ers on it
We just will not have a grasp of the circumstances surrounding the confrontation know until the the trial unfolds. Z was told he didn't have to pursue, he did, and that was one of the main reasons this situation developed. This decision does NOT determine whether Z is guilty or innocent, however.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:09 PM   #3767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefspants View Post
We just will not have a grasp of the circumstances surrounding the confrontation know until the the trial unfolds. Z was told he didn't have to pursue, he did, and that was one of the main reasons this situation developed. This decision does NOT determine whether Z is guilty or innocent, however.
No, when t decided to commit felony assault is when this situation developed... Z observed him from afar or t would have attacked him earlier I think... Bottom line.... Keep your hands off people and live
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:28 PM   #3768
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
No, when t decided to commit felony assault is when this situation developed... Z observed him from afar or t would have attacked him earlier I think... Bottom line.... Keep your hands off people and live
And there lies the problem, at the end of the day this is but speculation on your part, and until the conclusion of the trial, we will not know who first incited the situation.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:48 PM   #3769
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Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
Says the guy who promotes bringing a gun to a fist fight.
Better that than the guy bringing the fist to the gunfight. Just sayin'
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:22 PM   #3770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefspants View Post
We just will not have a grasp of the circumstances surrounding the confrontation know until the the trial unfolds. Z was told he didn't have to pursue, he did, and that was one of the main reasons this situation developed.
Look, first you said it was the main reason...then you backpeddle...now you are saying it again.

It has nothing more to do with this situation than skittles.

The reason this situation developed is because one of them assaulted the other....

The pursuit was fine and within his legal rights.

I know its a fine point (maybe nit picky?) but Z pursuing T is not any type of CAUSE (or reason) that this had to happen....any more than any of the other events leading up to it....

If Trayvon's parents didnt let him out of the house or if he wasn't suspended from school that week this incident wouldn't have happened either. But those aren't thie things that will get blame or be relevant in a jury's mind(i don't think anyway).

The only things that matter are when someone crosses the line to physical contact, and if the response was warranted....and if the escalation was warranted....

Like if Z tackled T first and tried to apprehend him, then perhaps T is warranted in having beaten the shit out of Z....

But your comment in bold is misleading, IMO, and makes it out like simply because Z was pursuing T, that T ended up dying....when the real MAIN cause is somewhere between those two events.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:33 PM   #3771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Look, first you said it was the main reason...then you backpeddle...now you are saying it again.

It has nothing more to do with this situation than skittles.

The reason this situation developed is because one of them assaulted the other....

The pursuit was fine and within his legal rights.

I know its a fine point (maybe nit picky?) but Z pursuing T is not any type of CAUSE (or reason) that this had to happen....any more than any of the other events leading up to it....

If Trayvon's parents didnt let him out of the house or if he wasn't suspended from school that week this incident wouldn't have happened either. But those aren't thie things that will get blame or be relevant in a jury's mind(i don't think anyway).

The only things that matter are when someone crosses the line to physical contact, and if the response was warranted....and if the escalation was warranted....

Like if Z tackled T first and tried to apprehend him, then perhaps T is warranted in having beaten the shit out of Z....

But your comment in bold is misleading, IMO, and makes it out like simply because Z was pursuing T, that T ended up dying....when the real MAIN cause is somewhere between those two events.
I think Z pursuing is going to be one of the main prosecution points and was a major reason why he got charged.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:35 PM   #3772
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
I think Z pursuing is going to be one of the main prosecution points and was a major reason why he got charged.
Good luck with that being a main reason he is convicted of murder.....

I don't necessarily disagree, but I think it will be shredded apart in a trial, since pursuing someone is not illegal. I don't think it could survive a jury if that is all they have.

I believe truly they will have to settle this thing, if that is their 'main point'



The main reason he was charged was mob rule and politics. He wasn't charged till the political pressure and the horrible DA refused to convene a grand jury. If they had a grand jury they would not have brought murder charges, IMO.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:46 PM   #3773
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Good luck with that being a main reason he is convicted of murder.....

I don't necessarily disagree, but I think it will be shredded apart in a trial, since pursuing someone is not illegal. I don't think it could survive a jury if that is all they have.

I believe truly they will have to settle this thing, if that is their 'main point'



The main reason he was charged was mob rule and politics. He wasn't charged till the political pressure and the horrible DA refused to convene a grand jury. If they had a grand jury they would not have brought murder charges, IMO.
I don't disagree. IIRC Z was charged with aggravated stalking which allows the state to charge him with 2nd degree murder.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:51 PM   #3774
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Originally Posted by RaiderH8r View Post
Better that than the guy bringing the fist to the gunfight. Just sayin'
Ya don't say. How about not starting a fight?

"They always get away."

Who always gets away? Criminals? Tray was not a criminal. He was someone walking down a sidewalk at 7PM. Do what the emergency response professionals told you and not confront him.

No fight. See how easy that was?

If you have the balls to shake down every random person that walks down your street, you should have the balls to do it without a gun like neighborhood watchmen are typically instructed to do.

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Old 12-10-2012, 07:58 PM   #3775
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Look, first you said it was the main reason...then you backpeddle...now you are saying it again.

It has nothing more to do with this situation than skittles.

The reason this situation developed is because one of them assaulted the other....

The pursuit was fine and within his legal rights.

I know its a fine point (maybe nit picky?) but Z pursuing T is not any type of CAUSE (or reason) that this had to happen....any more than any of the other events leading up to it....

If Trayvon's parents didnt let him out of the house or if he wasn't suspended from school that week this incident wouldn't have happened either. But those aren't thie things that will get blame or be relevant in a jury's mind(i don't think anyway).

The only things that matter are when someone crosses the line to physical contact, and if the response was warranted....and if the escalation was warranted....

Like if Z tackled T first and tried to apprehend him, then perhaps T is warranted in having beaten the shit out of Z....

But your comment in bold is misleading, IMO, and makes it out like simply because Z was pursuing T, that T ended up dying....when the real MAIN cause is somewhere between those two events.
It just goes back to this, man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefspants
Zimmerman's decision to pursue Trayvon and the actual confrontation are two separate events in this situation's entirety.

Zimmerman avoids 100% of this situation if he doesn't pursue Trayvon.

But whether Zimmerman will be found guilty remains to be seen.
For everything else we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:43 PM   #3776
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Why would you doubt his story? Especially after the witness accounts.
It seems pretty clear what happened during the 911 call. And that Trayvon got the upper hand in the confrontation and Zimmerman was justified to shoot him.

I don't believe for a second Zimmerman's story that he coolly walked back to his car because 911 told him to stop pursuit. Or that Trayvon asked him if he had a problem and Zimmerman said "No." There is too much history for anyone to believe that he was for some reason calm and composed during all of this.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:56 AM   #3777
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Forensic evidence both supports, casts doubt on Zimmerman claims

SANFORD, Fla. - Forensic evidence compiled in the killing of Trayvon Martin supports George Zimmerman's claim that Martin was leaning over him when he fired his gun, but casts doubt on Zimmerman's timeline on the night he shot and killed the unarmed teen, according to a review by a forensic expert for WKMG-TV.

Michael Knox, a retired Jacksonville Sheriff's Office detective and crime scene investigator, published some of the findings in his book, "Intermediate Range: The Forensic Evidence in the Killing of Trayvon Martin."

Knox and WKMG calculated the exact moment Zimmerman slammed shut his door as he left his truck at 7:11:48 p.m. on Feb. 26, 2011 to follow Martin through the Retreat at Twin Lakes community.

Knox then retraced Zimmerman's footsteps, as Zimmerman described them in a reenactment for police videotaped the day after the shooting, and compared the results to a recording of Zimmerman's nonemergency call to Sanford police.

Among his conclusions:

• If Zimmerman's retelling of the event were accurate, the confrontation Zimmerman described with Martin would have occurred much sooner than it actually did;
• Zimmerman covered more time and distance after leaving his truck that night than he revealed to police;
• based on the times and distances Zimmerman said he covered, Zimmerman would have still been on the phone with Sanford police when he claims he was attacked by Martin;
• had Martin walked directly to his destination, his father’s girlfriend's townhome, he would have made it there safely before Zimmerman ended his nonemergency call to Sanford police;
• Martin was in fact leaning over Zimmerman when the fatal shot was fired, just as Zimmerman has maintained.


To reach that last conclusion, Knox examined both a Florida Department of Law Enforcement report on the gunshot's impact to the hooded sweatshirt Martin was wearing and the autopsy report describing the gunshot wound to the body.

The medical examiner determined the gunshot was fired from "intermediate range," but the hoodie showed a "contact" shot, indicating the muzzle of Zimmerman's gun was touching or extremely close to the fabric when the shot was fired.

Knox explained that the loose fitting sweatshirt was farther away from the body because of gravity, which pulled it down as Martin was situated above Zimmerman.

That is consistent with Zimmerman's claim that he was on his back struggling with Martin when he reached for the gun, pointed it upward and fired, Knox said.

"We look at the physical evidence and then we say, 'What does it tell us?'" said Knox, who before his 2010 retirement testified often for the same state attorney’s office that was specially appointed by the governor to prosecute Zimmerman.

To demonstrate the effects of an "intermediate range" shot through cloth, Knox and WKMG used a Kel-Tec 9mm handgun similar to the one Zimmerman owned and, at a local gun range, fired test shots through two pieces of fabric: One tightly stretched over cardboard, the other hanging loosely about three inches in front, in contact with the muzzle when the shot was fired.

It produced results similar to what was found in the forensic reports: Contact damage on the cloth closest to the gun, and a 3/8-inch hole with a 2-by-2 inch pattern of stippling, or gunshot residue, on the shirt stretched skintight over the cardboard. This was not an exact scientific replication of the actual gunshot, because of differences in ammunition and the weapons' exact specifications, but a demonstration for Local 6 viewers.

Nor do any of the findings prove whether Zimmerman committed second-degree murder, as is alleged, or acted in self-defense, as Zimmerman claims.

But they could be crucial when a judge or jury determines if there is sufficient evidence of self defense or whether Zimmerman is guilty of second-degree murder, manslaughter or some other crime.

The defense, for instance, might focus on why Trayvon Martin did not walk directly to the townhouse where he was staying, perhaps suggesting Martin doubled back or lay in wait among bushes in the dark and confronted Zimmerman from behind, as Zimmerman claims.

"That part is difficult to explain, because clearly Trayvon Martin does something other than walk straight to (his father’s girlfriend's) townhome," Knox said.

Of course, the unarmed teenager had no obligation to go to the townhouse or do anything else, other than obey the law, which is what he was doing -- at least until, Zimmerman claims, he attacked the neighborhood watch captain.

But the state could accuse Zimmerman of lying about where he went and how long he took to get there after leaving his truck, showing he would have had plenty of time to get back to his truck, as he claimed he was trying to do. Prosecutors could argue an overzealous self-appointed defender of the community used the unaccounted for time to try to track down the "suspicious" "punk" he thought was "up to no good," an "asshole (who) always get(s) away," all descriptions Zimmerman gives of Martin during the phone call.

More than 2:30 passes between the time Zimmerman hung up with Sanford police (7:13:39) and when a neighbor who heard the commotion connected with a 911 operator (7:16:11). The struggles continues on that call for 45 seconds, until the fatal gunshot is heard at 7:16:56.

Exactly what happened during that 2:32 gap only Zimmerman has survived to say.

Knox does not know exactly when the struggle began -- because that moment was not recorded -- but it had to come some seconds before the 911 call was made. It took some time for the 911 caller to hear and react to the struggle and then make a decision to get to a phone and properly connect with 911.

Knox also does not speculate on who may have been the initial aggressor, or whether either person had a right to fight back with deadly force.

"What you have here is a case where you have two people perceiving one event in two very different ways," Knox concluded. "George Zimmerman is perceiving that Trayvon Martin is a suspicious character, he's doing something wrong. Trayvon Martin perceives it as, 'Why is this guy following me? Why is he staring at me?' What can happen in a situation like that is each person's individual perception causes them to act in a particular way. Their actions collided and turned into this tragic event."
http://www.news4jax.com/news/Forensi...z/-/index.html
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:13 AM   #3778
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Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
While most people in this thread took sides, it pretty much confirms what I've been saying most of this thread.

There was a meathead with a history of violence and aggression, trying to enforce his own vigilante justice trying to enforce police powers he does not have and CLEARLY overstepping his boundaries and duties

Then there was a hothead who in a panic ran away from the guy patrolling and instead of doing the sensible thing, which is to go home, decided instead to double back and pick a fight

Zimmerman was cocky and thought he could pick a fight with anybody, as he's done in the past. He found a guy who outmatched him. Trayvon thought he could be gangsta and pick a fight with anybody. He found a guy who carried a gun and wasn't afraid to use it.

Both did the wrong thing that night. But only one of them is dead.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:26 AM   #3779
LiveSteam LiveSteam is offline
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But only one of them is dead. The bad guy
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LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:42 PM   #3780
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is offline
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But only one of them is dead. The bad guy
They were both "the bad guy."
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