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Old 01-04-2012, 09:08 PM  
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***Offical 2012 STL Cardinals World Champions Thread ***

St. Louis Cardinals: 7 reasons fans should feel good about 2012

Posted Wednesday, October 24, 2012, at 9:26 PM

St. Louis Cardinals fans are likely feeling deflated after the collapse that put an end to the team's dreams of a World Series repeat, but there is good reason to be excited.

With all of the odds against them, the Cardinals managed to push their 2012 season beyond any anticipated boundary.

Given all of the season's changes and the adversity the team had to fight through, the fact that they played in October at all was an anomaly in itself. On paper, it made sense for the Cardinals to be in the playoffs, but few saw them as a true threat.
As the season continued, even fans began to doubt as they watched the team seemingly crumble in June and July. When the Cardinals finally came to life in September they went 11-5 in the last 16 games of the season to lock up the second Wild Card position in its inaugural year.

That run, despite it's crushing end in Cincinnati in Game 7 of the National League Championship Series, lots of good came from the Cardinals' season and playoff run.
Following in no particular order are 10 reasons Cardinals fans have to be excited about the 2013 season.

Trevor Rosenthal
When rookie fireballer Trevor Rosenthal made his first trip to St. Louis, it was obvious almost instantly that he was something special.
Between his 100 mph fastball and the general inability for almost anyone to hit off of him, he became a huge part of the Cardinals playoff run.

He pitched in a total of 19 regular season games before the 22-year-old rookie from Lee's Summit, Mo. got his first taste of postseason baseball and he put on quite a show.
In 8.2 IP over seven postseason appearances, Rosenthal held opponents to only two hits and no runs.
It's possible that down the stretch he may have already earned his spot in the rotation for 2013.

Shelby Miller
The long-coveted fastball pitching prospect Shelby Miller also made his first trip to St. Louis in 2012 and put on a good show.
In 13.2 IP over six regular season games, Miller surrendered only two runs on nine hits. His postseason performance was more of the same with two runs on four hits in 3.2 IP.

Despite a dismal first half of the season in Memphis, Miller got himself together and still managed to make one major league start before the end of the season -- a very impressive start at that.
Against the Cincinnati Reds in the final game of the regular season, Miller posted 5.2 hitless innings. He gave up no runs and collected his first major league win.

Expect to see a lot more of Miller in St. Louis early in 2013.

Joe Kelly
When Joe Kelly made his major league debut on June 10, few could have guessed the importance he would play throughout the remainder of the 2012 season.
Kelly started 16 games for the Cardinals this season filling in for Jaime Garcia and Lance Lynn, but it was the postseason when he really came through for his teammates.

When starting pitchers struggled time and again in October, it was Kelly who came to their rescue.
In seven postseason appearances, Kelly threw 7.2 innings and surrendered only two runs on six hits. Kelly came through for the Cardinals from the bullpen.
There's a good chance that could be his home in the future.

Mike Matheny
When the Cardinals hired Mike Matheny to take over for Tony LaRussa, many question bringing in a manager with no experience to such a storied franchise.

He had a few hiccups and growing pains along the way, but for a rookie manager to get his team where Matheny did this year speaks volumes.
His players have a strong respect for Matheny and credit his positive style with being a driving force behind their 2012 success.
True, he didn't get them through the NLCS, but the team made it to an all or nothing Game 7. That's good experience for the players obviously, but also for Matheny. Not only did he learn a lot about managing in the media pressure cooker that is postseason baseball, he also got a taste of what it felt like to win as a manager.

NLCS loss means more drive to win
While the NLCS loss was a good lesson for a young manager, it's an even more important lesson for a young player.
The 2011 championship lit a fire under young players like Lance Lynn and Jon Jay. That fire helped drive them to extremely successful sophomore seasons.

What happened in 2012 will likely do the same for Rosenthal, Miller and Kelly. Their 2013 season may not be like Jay or Lynn's 2012, but now they've gotten a little taste of what it feels like to be a winner.

Both the excitement and the public humbling can be a great experience for any young player.

The run was without several key components
In a season riddled with injuries, none were as crucial as those late in the season.
The loss of Lance Berkman and Rafael Furcal significantly weakened the team's bench. Instead of having Pete Kozma, Allen Craig and Matt Carpenter to pinch hit, the team wound up having to use them in the lineup.

The loss of Jaime Garcia and Jake Westbrook also rocked the Cardinals. Instead of having Lynn and Westbrook also available from the bullpen, Lynn was pushed back into the rotation after a very successful NLDS bullpen stint.

Having gotten as deep into the playoffs as the Cardinals did in spite of the injuries is quite the accomplishment.

They did it without Pujols, LaRussa and Duncan
Few in the world of sports gave the Cardinals a fighting chance when Albert Pujols left the team to play on the west coast. Surely this team couldn't be as good as they were?

Few gave them a chance after longtime manager Tony LaRussa decided it was time to retire.
Few gave them a chance after pitching coach Dave Duncan left the team.
The Cardinals did it despite all of that. That's something any fan should be proud of.

No, they didn't hoist a trophy. There will be no parade or tickertape.
What there is, though, is hope for next year and that will come sooner than you may think.
After all, pitchers and catchers report to Spring Training in just four short months.

From a blog I was sent on twitter: http://www.dailystatesman.com/blogs/...es/entry/50051

Last edited by BigRedChief; 10-24-2012 at 08:57 PM..
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:32 PM   #2476
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MLB Trade Rumors ‏@mlbtraderumors

Dodgers Acquire Skip Schumaker From Cardinals http://bit.ly/XQWitc #mlb
Please be an infielder in return.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:55 PM   #2477
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What's floating around Twitter is that the player the Cardinals received in return is Jake Lemmerman, a SS:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...d=lemmer001jak
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:57 PM   #2478
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So with Hamilton going to the Angels, what does that do for them potentially not resigning Mike Trout?


Maybe we "redeal" for them taking Pujols and sign him to play in STL in a few?
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:06 PM   #2479
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So with Hamilton going to the Angels, what does that do for them potentially not resigning Mike Trout?


Maybe we "redeal" for them taking Pujols and sign him to play in STL in a few?
5 year deal.

If anything, it proves that they will re-sign Trout. They've now built $25 million/season into their payroll structure and that $25 million will fall away the very off-season that Trout is looking to be a FA.

That's what sucks worst about this - it proves that there really is no end to the amount of money that Moreno can spend...and by God he's going to spend it. Trout will stay in Anaheim. Even if he doesn't, Anaheim will drive the price up to a point where there are only a couple of teams (notably NY and maybe a wild card like Chicago or Philly) that can compete at that price point.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:20 PM   #2480
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That's what sucks worst about this - it proves that there really is no end to the amount of money that Moreno can spend...and by God he's going to spend it. Trout will stay in Anaheim. Even if he doesn't, Anaheim will drive the price up to a point where there are only a couple of teams (notably NY and maybe a wild card like Chicago or Philly) that can compete at that price point.
Add in $6 billion for the Dodgers and its going to be hard to much harder to compete against that money. They can throw $200-$300 million at a player and if it doesn't pan out, so what. We got more cash to correct that mistake.

We cant make a mistake like that without hurting our future. It will hurt other clubs worse than us but since do we care that much about that part.

I've been saying since the Cubs got their big cable contract that the big equalizer in the playoffs is quality pitching. If you can get quality young pitching that you control at a reasonable rate. You can compete with the Dodgers/Angles/Yankees with their billion $ cable contracts.


And we got that in the pipeline this year and next making it to the big show. No rebuilding years for us.
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If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:43 PM   #2481
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St. Louis Cardinals Top 20 Prospects for 2013

The list and grades are a blending of present performance and long-term potential. Comments are welcome, but in the end all analysis and responsibility is mine. Full reports on all of players can be found in the 2013 Baseball Prospect Book. We are now taking pre-orders. Order early and order often!

QUICK PRIMER ON GRADE MEANINGS:

Grade A prospects are the elite. They have a reasonable chance of becoming stars or superstars. Almost all Grade A prospects develop into major league regulars, if injuries or other problems don't intervene. Note that is a major "if" in some cases.

Grade B prospects have a good chance to enjoy successful careers. Some will develop into stars, some will not. Most end up spending several years in the majors, at the very least in a marginal role.

Grade C prospects are the most common type. These are guys who have something positive going for them, but who may have a question mark or three, or who are just too far away from the majors to get an accurate feel for. A few Grade C guys, especially at the lower levels, do develop into stars. Some end up as role players or bench guys. Many don't make it at all.

Also note that there is diversity within each category. I'm a tough grader; Grade C+ is actually good praise, and some C+ prospects (especially at lower levels) turn out very well indeed.

Finally, keep in mind that all grades are shorthand. You have to read the full comment in the book for my full opinion about a player, the letter grade only tells you so much. A Grade C prospect in rookie ball could end up being very impressive, while a Grade C prospect in Triple-A is likely just a future role player.

ALL GRADES ARE PRELIMINARY AND SUBJECT TO CHANGE. No grade is final until January 5th, 2013

1) Oscar Taveras, OF, Grade A: One of the easiest grades in the book. Outstanding hitter for power and average, and he improved his baserunning and defense. Next great Cardinals star? Seems like it to me.

2) Shelby Miller, RHP, Grade A: Terrific second half of the season saved his A rating from last year. Still looks like a rotation anchor to me, just needs to stay healthy.

3) Carlos Martinez, RHP, Grade A-: Borderline B+: Still has some rough edges but he made enough progress that I'm comfortable bumping him up a notch. Like Miller, he can be a top of the rotation guy if he avoids injury. He's moved very quickly and if I were the Cardinals I think I would slow things down a little and avoid bringing him to the majors in 2013 unless nobody else is available.

4) Trevor Rosenthal, RHP, Grade B+: Borderline A-: Another very live arm who could pitch at the top of the rotation eventually, or perhaps become a power closer.

5) Michael Wacha, RHP, Grade B+: Exceeded expectations in pro ball, granted the sample is small, but still. . .40/4 K/BB in 21 innings? Dang. I thought he was a future number three starter, but if he maintains the uptick in velocity he showed in pro ball, he's another guy you can build the rotation around.

6) Kolten Wong, 2B, Grade B: Solid but unspectacular season in Double-A, with his defense looking quite good and a decent hitting line. Looked good to me in Arizona Fall League. I still see him as a future regular second baseman who hits for average, gets on base, and provides a steady glove.

7) Matt Adams, 1B, Grade B: Poorly-timed injury, but he destroyed Triple-A pitching and given his track record I think he will eventually adapt to the majors. Like Wong, I don't see him as a star, but rather as a solid regular.

8) Tyrell Jenkins, RHP, Grade B-: His upside is as high as the guys above him, but injuries and command problems short-circuited him in Low-A. Disappointing, but the talent is still here.

9) Anthony Garcia, OF, Grade B-: I absolutely do not understand why this guy doesn't get more press. His power is very real, and even marginal improvements in the strike zone would result in a huge breakout. Crushed Low-A pitching.

10) Carson Kelly, 3B, Grade B-: Highest-ceiling and youngest of the third basemen drafted in 2012 by the Cards. Will also take the most time to develop. Needs more patience and defensive work. Profile is similar to Diamondbacks prospect Matt Davidson at the same stage of his career.

11) Patrick Wisdom, 3B, Grade B-: Excellent glove, and he hit better in the New York-Penn League than he did in college. Expect power and patience, we'll have to see about the batting average.

12) Stephen Piscotty, 3B, Grade B-: Nice solid line drive hitter, but he doesn't have Wisdom's glove nor Kelly's pure upside. That's a problem, since Piscotty's bat won't look as good in the outfield or at first base unless he boosts home run production.

13) Greg Garcia, 2B-SS, Grade C+: Wong's double play partner at Springfield is a strong yet overlooked prospect in his own right with very sound on-base skills. Stretched at shortstop, he's better at second base but that's Wong's position.

14) Seth Maness, RHP, Grade C+: Truly outstanding command helps mediocre velocity play up. Seems like he can be a sound inning-eater to me, or at worst an attractive trade chit for another team.

15) John Gast, LHP, Grade C+: A good arm from the left side, but erratic with his command and more likely to fit in the bullpen than the rotation for St. Louis.

16) Starlin Rodriguez, 2B, Grade C+: Another overlooked prospect who would get a lot more attention if he played in a weaker farm system. Good fielder, hit for average with some pop, strong performance in High-A. Good showing in Double-A will get him on the conveyer belt towards an opportunity of Wong doesn't pan out.

17) Ryan Jackson, SS, Grade C+: Very sound defensive player and can surprise you with his hitting at times. If you really need a shortstop, you could do a lot worse than just sticking Jackson in the lineup, hit him low in the order, and enjoy his fundamental play. More value for a real team than a fantasy one.

18) Maikel Cleto, RHP, Grade C+: Gotta respect the arm strength. Will he ever throw strikes well enough for the 100 MPH fastball to matter?

19) Tyler Lyons, LHP, Grade C+: Sleeper prospect who has more talent and pitched better than his 4.00+ ERA in Triple-A indicates. Would be a sneaky rotation candidate for some teams due to strike-throwing ability, but he gets lost in the crowd here.

20) Breyvic Valera, INF, Grade C+: Another sound infielder, this one advancing to Low-A for 2013. Hits for average, defense is promising at second base, could develop more power than people expect.


OTHER GRADE C+: Tim Cooney, LHP; Victor De Leon, RHP; James Ramsey, OF; Boone Whiting, RHP

OTHERS: Steve Bean, C; Michael Blazek, RHP; Keith Butler, RHP; Adron Chambers, OF; Victor De Leon, RHP; Adam Ehrlich, C; Eric Fornataro, RHP; Sam Freeman, LHP; Silfredo Garcia, RHP; Sam Gaviglio, RHP; Pete Kozma, SS: Jake Lemmerman, INF; Dixon Llorrens, RHP; C.J. McElroy, OF; Mike O'Neill, OF; Jorge Rondon, RHP; Kevin Siegrist, LHP; Lee Stoppelman, LHP; Jordan Swagerty, RHP; Charlie Tilson, OF; Colin Walsh, OF-INF

What can you say? This is one hell of a farm system. There is impact talent. There are future stars. And there are a lot of guys who project as solid role players to back them up.

The pitching. . .you have four guys in Miller, Martinez, Rosenthal, and Wacha who could be and should be rotation anchors. Jenkins has that kind of talent too, if he can refine it. There is a ton of pitching behind them, with a good mixture of strike-throwers (Maness, Lyons, Boone Whiting) and guys with hot arms. The Cardinals should never want for good relief pitching, and if even if some of the top guys get hurt or don't pan out, one of the efficiency experts could step in.

As history shows (Oakland's Four Aces, Generation K of the Mets, the Royals a couple of years ago), having a great batch of pitching prospects is no guarantee of success. There will be injury attrition, and someone will be a disappointment. But the point is to gather as many pitchers as possible to provide depth to cover for the inevitable failures, and the Cardinals are masters at doing this.

But the Cardinals also have lots of hitting to go with the pitching. Taveras will be a star, Wong and Adams look like regulars, and there are a bunch of guys who should be role players or strong contributors at least. The 2012 draft brought in additional bats, with particular depth at third base. If those guys thrive in 2013, this list will still look strong next year even if the top guys graduate.

Overall, this is an amazing system, a prospect factory. They find guys at big colleges, they find guys at small colleges, they find guys in junior college, they find and develop high school guys, they find and develop Latin American guys. They do everything.


Pretty good read.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:57 PM   #2482
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Excellent read, but I would probably flip-flop Jenkins & Wacha. That said, it's nit picking, love our farm system.
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:33 PM   #2483
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Originally Posted by Mi_chief_fan View Post
Excellent read, but I would probably flip-flop Jenkins & Wacha. That said, it's nit picking, love our farm system.
Maybe if you are talking solely about upside, but Jenkins has yet to prove he can consistently get the results you want (even at lower levels). He is still only 20 so the slow steady approach could prove to be just what he needed.

One guy I am looking forward to following more this coming year is Kevin Seigrist. He was virtually off the radar until last year, and finished up with a solid AFL stint. I think he might end up being a better left hand prospect in the long run than Gast. He needs to show he can stay healthy.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:40 PM   #2484
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Maybe if you are talking solely about upside, but Jenkins has yet to prove he can consistently get the results you want (even at lower levels). He is still only 20 so the slow steady approach could prove to be just what he needed.

One guy I am looking forward to following more this coming year is Kevin Seigrist. He was virtually off the radar until last year, and finished up with a solid AFL stint. I think he might end up being a better left hand prospect in the long run than Gast. He needs to show he can stay healthy.
Excellent points on Jenkins, but Wacha has a pretty small sample size. Hopefully they both become #1s.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:16 PM   #2485
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Excellent points on Jenkins, but Wacha has a pretty small sample size. Hopefully they both become #1s.
No matter what..... We lost Larussa, Pujols, Duncan and Carp for most of the year. We got within one win of the World Series again. With this strong young pitching getting ready to hit the big leagues we have a whole new window of opportunity to get back to the World Series.
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If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:20 PM   #2486
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Berkman signed with the Rangers as a DH. Good move for him, IMO.

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Old 01-06-2013, 05:35 PM   #2487
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Shouldn't this thread be renamed The Official 2112 SF Giants World Champions Thread? Just sayin
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:50 PM   #2488
Frazod Frazod is offline
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Shouldn't this thread be renamed The Official 2112 SF Giants World Champions Thread? Just sayin
There might be one on gayasssanfrancisco.com.

Just sayin
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:51 PM   #2489
BIG_DADDY BIG_DADDY is offline
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There might be one on gayasssanfrancisco.com.

Just sayin
What r u trying to say, you lost to a bunch of homo's
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:55 PM   #2490
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What r u trying to say, you lost to a bunch of homo's
no that's their fanz

And also, nobody else here gives two ****s about them, and that's not likely to change, ever.
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