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Old 07-20-2012, 09:50 AM  
notorious notorious is offline
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Gun Control

We have all heard about what happened in Aurora, Co, and I think that Gun Control is going to be a huge topic in the following months.


What measures need to be taken? Do you have any ideas that will help prevent this kind of thing from happening again as it pertains to guns?
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:39 PM   #526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
Take a moment to consider where most of these tragic shootings have happened and where they haven't.

The latest shootings in the news have been in Colorado, Oregon and Connecticut. All Liberal strongholds where gun regulations are popular. The highest violent crime rates? Look no further than Chicago and Washington DC....homes of some of the toughest gun control regulations in the country.

We will never stop a twisted, broken and motivated person from doing something horrific. It does no good to punish law abiding citizens.
This.....end of thread
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:41 PM   #527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD View Post
So the one flaw with your argument is explain Mexico? Guns are heavly restricted but all over the place. As to the question of how to get a gun?

Well I could buy a 1-2K small CNC machine....download the CAD drawings and then order a chunk of aluminum online. Once the material arrives about 30 minutes later I'd have my freshly CNC'd firearm.

Of course if I was willing to make something less durable I'd just download the plans and use a 3D printer. It would take even less time and less effort than using a CNC machine.

See one of the problems in the UK is that they have been retrofitting airsoft guns and turning them into real guns. They may not be the most durable things but they get the job done.

With the increasing availability of small inexpensive computer controlled precision machines. The ability of anyone to prohibit any device from getting into the hands of people illegally is increasingly small.

Most prohibitions only prevent lawful ownership and have little impact on illegal ownership.

I wasn't saying it wouldn't happen, and you're right, where there is a will there is a way, obviously. My argument, which you completely missed, is that it would not be as rampant as people make it out to be. Want to test that theory. While Christmas shopping this year, ask every cashier you meet if they know what a 3D printer is. See how much water your argument holds when most of them have no clue. You're confusing your knowledge with general knowledge.

Yes, before you say it, google is a wonderful thing and can teach anyone anything. Where there is a will there is a way. I did like how you completely ignored the most important part of my comment though, part 3.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:43 PM   #528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock View Post
You are insane if you think Mexico wouldn't step in and fill that market the same way they do with drugs and human trafficking. Open your damn eyes.
You're insane if you think that guns would come more popular than they are now if they were illegal. Take your own feelings out of the subject and think logically.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:43 PM   #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenidol View Post
That's why we need Federal regulations, not state by state regulations.
You're missing the point, these are done by shooters who are citizens of the corresponding states, which subjects them to all of the regulations of that state.

With firearms(unlike almost any other product in the US), I can't just go to another state and buy a firearm. I have a to buy from a federally licensed dealer in my state which subjects me to all my state's restrictions. I can't side step the local regs buy buying out of state like say buying a car.

Most studies that have been done on gun control, even by those who can be considered as relatively unbiased.(i.e. places like the CDC), have shown that for all our laws. All of the gun legislation(I believe both pro and con) has made no statistically significant different in crime, either positive or negative.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:50 PM   #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaplin42 View Post
2. Everyone carrying guns would not stop crime; in fact it would probably increase. Road rage...instead of giving someone the bird, well now I have a 9mm on me, **** that asshole that just cut me off. I’m out at a bar with friends, and my buddy who becomes violent when he drinks gets pissed off and starts shooting up the bar because some guy hit on his girlfriend. There would be a ton of stupid shit like this.
Really? You think that the mere presence of a weapon just instantly turns an otherwise normal person into a gun wielding murderer?

Good ****ing grief, the amount of human malice that you're trying to contribute directly to guns is astounding. The presence of a weapon doesn't change who a person is or how they act. When you're in your kitchen, do you feel yourself getting more evil and homicidal the closer you get to the cutlery block? That's exactly what you're trying to attribute to a gun. It's completely illogical...
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:52 PM   #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
Really? You think that the mere presence of a weapon just instantly turns an otherwise normal person into a gun wielding murderer?

Good ****ing grief, the amount of human malice that you're trying to contribute directly to guns is astounding. The presence of a weapon doesn't change who a person is or how they act. When you're in your kitchen, do you feel yourself getting more evil and homicidal the closer you get to the cutlery block? That's exactly what you're trying to attribute to a gun. It's completely illogical...
To be honest if you read my 3rd point, you wouldn't even ask this question.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:53 PM   #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenidol View Post
You will never get rid of all gun crime, but you can pass laws that severely limit people who have access to them. England and Germany have tough gun laws, but there are still some guns that get through the system. However, deaths related to guns is (try using the word "are" instead of "is" here)a fraction to that of the US.
Remind me again, when did England or Germany adopt a bill of rights that restricts their governments from infringing on their citizen's basic rights to gun ownership? If you want to live in a gun restrictive society, you are free to move there. You choose to stay in America, where we have certain rights that our government is constitutionally limited from infringing upon.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenidol View Post
"According to a 2007 Harvard Journal of Law study, the German gun death per 100,000 citizens was 0.91 with less than 9% of German households owning guns. The Center for Disease Control, (CDC), projects U.S. gun fatalities at 14.2 per 100,000. In a 2005 Gallup study, 42% of American households claimed to own one or more firearms."
Subtract suicides and guns possessed illegally, and get back to us with how shocking that statistic is.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:53 PM   #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenidol View Post
The killer. I know where you are going so I will just post this again and we can go in another circle if you want.

Why does it have to be one or the other? I like to think it's both.
The gun didn't fire itself....ok so you admitted that.

No one can stop some nutcase from just going into a public place shooting up the joint...

Just like no one can stop me from looking up online how to make a bomb, and then going into a mall and setting it off. Should we ban the internet then? Or maybe ban cars because it took me to the crime scene.

You're completely missing the point here man.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:55 PM   #534
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Originally Posted by stevenidol View Post
That's why we need Federal regulations, not state by state regulations.
This right shall not be infringed.



Let's imagine that in the late 1930s and early 1940s, Jews and ethnic minorities in Europe had enjoyed a constitution and culture that gave them the right to be armed.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:57 PM   #535
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Originally Posted by kaplin42 View Post
To be honest if you read my 3rd point, you wouldn't even ask this question.
Hey, I found another clueless idiot on CP
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:58 PM   #536
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Originally Posted by kaplin42 View Post
To be honest if you read my 3rd point, you wouldn't even ask this question.
I read your 3rd point, and it doesn't change anything. You're taking human emotions and attributing them to a material object. Saying people would act differently in the presence of guns, than they would otherwise. But that's not the way it works.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:59 PM   #537
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I want to add, just so that I'm clear. I'm not in favor of banning guns. I'm just less in favor of letting everyone carry a gun on them all the time. If I had to choose one, it would be the former. But that is only in the event of an either or type of situation.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:00 PM   #538
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Originally Posted by kaplin42 View Post
You're insane if you think that guns would come more popular than they are now if they were illegal. Take your own feelings out of the subject and think logically.
Guns would be just as popular as they are right now, which is to say wildly popular. Take your own fear out of the subject and think logically.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:00 PM   #539
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Further ammo against the belief that laws will stop illegal arms. It won't be many years before 3D printers can deposit metallic compounds.

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Old 12-14-2012, 02:01 PM   #540
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
I read your 3rd point, and it doesn't change anything. You're taking human emotions and attributing them to a material object. Saying people would act differently in the presence of guns, than they would otherwise. But that's not the way it works.
I'm saying that if someone who is normally prone to rage and fits of anger and displaying those acts in a violent fashion, adding a gun to that situation is only going make it worse.
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