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Old 08-31-2012, 06:24 PM  
Dave Lane Dave Lane is offline
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Why people laugh at Creationists

Taking a lead from Killer Clown I thought I'd create a alternative thread to post some videos I like...

[EDIT New video here]

So on with the show:

Here's the Kent Hovind Theory:



"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations.
But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."

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Old 12-16-2012, 08:43 AM   #1216
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The right to abortion is not something that should exist. If you believe in God you then go forth and procreate. Abortion is not procreating, I stated before that it's mostly the result of someone recreating and getting caught. There are some great people that are not here because they didn't have the same "right to life" that you did. It might not make sense to you, it does make sense if you look at the end result. If we were all not a human being from before we were formed in the womb (loosely taking that from the bible) there would be no plan for the planet. In my beliefs the taking of an innocent life is wrong, should it be 4 days after conception or 3 months after birth or 35 years after birth.


So...... how great were they?
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:38 AM   #1217
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Originally Posted by CLX View Post
The right to abortion is not something that should exist. If you believe in God you then go forth and procreate. Abortion is not procreating, I stated before that it's mostly the result of someone recreating and getting caught. There are some great people that are not here because they didn't have the same "right to life" that you did. It might not make sense to you, it does make sense if you look at the end result. If we were all not a human being from before we were formed in the womb (loosely taking that from the bible) there would be no plan for the planet. In my beliefs the taking of an innocent life is wrong, should it be 4 days after conception or 3 months after birth or 35 years after birth.
1. I don't believe that a fetus, before it has developed into one, is a human being. It doesn't look like one. It doesn't act like one, and there isn't any reason to believe it IS one. If it isn't one, then it isn't wrong to stop it from becoming one. Not any more wrong than when a condom stops a sperm from reaching the egg, or when traffic stops the man and woman from meeting in the first place.

2. I think that people who believe a human being starts at conception usually have no interest in evaluating their own opinion, because by and large, they think it's God's opinion. Therefore they have no argument to support them, and will not listen to anyone else's argument. The sad part is, God never says this in the bible. Religious leaders have been using this "controversy" to rile people of faith up and politicize the congregation. Give them something to fight for.

3. The unspoken part of this, is that a lot of people who are against abortion aren't even REALLY thinking of it as murder. Otherwise we'd see a whole LOT more abortion doctors being killed. If you really thought that every abortion clinic in America was doing something analogous to what this Lanza kid did, then I'd expect all out war by now. But that doesn't happen. The real reason religious people don't like abortion, as I see it, is because they think recreational sex outside of marriage is a sin, and they think that pregnancy is a way of God correcting that sin. That back in the old days, you got somebody knocked up, you did the right thing, asked God's forgiveness and married the girl. Well, that's just silly. We have the technology to stop a pregnancy before it becomes a baby. And there is nothing wrong with sex.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:22 AM   #1218
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Originally Posted by mcan View Post
1. I don't believe that a fetus, before it has developed into one, is a human being. It doesn't look like one. It doesn't act like one, and there isn't any reason to believe it IS one. If it isn't one, then it isn't wrong to stop it from becoming one. Not any more wrong than when a condom stops a sperm from reaching the egg, or when traffic stops the man and woman from meeting in the first place.
Science says you're wrong. This life has all the DNA of a complete human being, grows on its own determinism and even has it's own blood. Fetus means child. It's not dead, and it's not a frog. Life just means to allow it to continue to grow by splitting its cells and dividing them. We all just look different at different stages. That's what you looked like at that age.

This is what other humans do when they want to take the life of another human— deny the other its humanity. This what was done to the Jews, the feeble minded and the retarded under the Nazi regimes. This then makes it okay to put an end to their life.

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2. I think that people who believe a human being starts at conception usually have no interest in evaluating their own opinion, because by and large, they think it's God's opinion.
I used to be pro-choice. It was science, in particular embryology that changed my mind. It also changed the mind or Norma McCorvey of Roe v Wade claims.

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Therefore they have no argument to support them, and will not listen to anyone else's argument.


Same can be said for your side. I just gave you my arguments to support my pro-life stand. Science always considered it to be human life at conception until the Roe v Wade case, mysteriously led people to believe otherwise. There was no competent embryologists there to present the science for that case.


Quote:
The sad part is, God never says this in the bible. Religious leaders have been using this "controversy" to rile people of faith up and politicize the congregation. Give them something to fight for.
Secularists have used this controversy to expand federal power over the states to destroy federalism. Secularists activists used Norma McCorvy and in another case by lying to them, just to exploit these women for an agenda.

The dad part is, that govts have been instituted among men first to protect their lives. If we cheapen life in anyway, life will continue to be abused in other ways—making us all less safe.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:34 AM   #1219
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I would like all religious people to stop equating Atheists and Anti-theists. It's ignorant.

Atheists don't believe in god.

Anti-theists hate religion and mock those that follow it.

There's a huge difference. All anti-theists are naturally atheist, but all atheists are not anti-theist.

I love all of you and wish only the best, even though you wish eternal suffering on me and my kin.

Atheist out.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:13 PM   #1220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Science says you're wrong. This life has all the DNA of a complete human being, grows on its own determinism and even has it's own blood. Fetus means child. It's not dead, and it's not a frog. Life just means to allow it to continue to grow by splitting its cells and dividing them. We all just look different at different stages. That's what you looked like at that age.

This is what other humans do when they want to take the life of another human— deny the other its humanity. This what was done to the Jews, the feeble minded and the retarded under the Nazi regimes. This then makes it okay to put an end to their life.
This life has all the DNA of a complete human being...

Yeah, we know. So does a human heart after it's been taken out of a cadaver. If it didn't have human DNA it wouldn't eventually become a human being. My hair has all my DNA. It's just parts. A fetus is the RAW material that is used to create a human being. It's not a really young human being. There's no reason to look at a clump of cells and say "oh look, that's a really young human being." Fetus does not mean child. We clearly make a distinction between a fetus before viability and baby after. When a fetus dies in utero, we refer to it as a miscarriage. When it dies in utero after viability we call it a stillborn baby. There is a such a huge difference here. Perhaps viability is a bad "line" to draw, since technology is pushing this line back. Perhaps voluntary, deliberate movement (the quickening) is a line that makes more sense. But regardless, your argument that conception is equivalent to human being isn't really working for me. And I'm not sure that comparing me to a nazi is a decent way of making your point stick. I'm pretty sure that I'm making a sincere effort to understand your point and come to a sensible conclusion.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:14 PM   #1221
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So...... how great were they?
In my eyes, greater than you could ever be.
Unrealized potential has been wasted over 20,000,000 times. How great could any one of the 20 that were killed in Newtown, CT?
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:19 PM   #1222
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1. I don't believe that a fetus, before it has developed into one, is a human being. It doesn't look like one. It doesn't act like one, and there isn't any reason to believe it IS one. If it isn't one, then it isn't wrong to stop it from becoming one. Not any more wrong than when a condom stops a sperm from reaching the egg, or when traffic stops the man and woman from meeting in the first place.

2. I think that people who believe a human being starts at conception usually have no interest in evaluating their own opinion, because by and large, they think it's God's opinion. Therefore they have no argument to support them, and will not listen to anyone else's argument. The sad part is, God never says this in the bible. Religious leaders have been using this "controversy" to rile people of faith up and politicize the congregation. Give them something to fight for.

3. The unspoken part of this, is that a lot of people who are against abortion aren't even REALLY thinking of it as murder. Otherwise we'd see a whole LOT more abortion doctors being killed. If you really thought that every abortion clinic in America was doing something analogous to what this Lanza kid did, then I'd expect all out war by now. But that doesn't happen. The real reason religious people don't like abortion, as I see it, is because they think recreational sex outside of marriage is a sin, and they think that pregnancy is a way of God correcting that sin. That back in the old days, you got somebody knocked up, you did the right thing, asked God's forgiveness and married the girl. Well, that's just silly. We have the technology to stop a pregnancy before it becomes a baby. And there is nothing wrong with sex.
All of your points are assumptions on your part.

You don't have any interest in seeing any point of view other than your own. Now that you've stated your opinion I doubt there is any way to convince you that you are wrong, seems as if there is a stalemate between ideologies.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:19 PM   #1223
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In my eyes, greater than you could ever be.
Unrealized potential has been wasted over 20,000,000 times. How great could any one of the 20 that were killed in Newtown, CT?
More likely 20,000,000 more people leeching off the system. It always amuses me to hear you people bitch about how many abortions there are and then complain about millions of people on welfare.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:25 PM   #1224
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Originally Posted by CLX View Post
In my eyes, greater than you could ever be.
Unrealized potential has been wasted over 20,000,000 times. How great could any one of the 20 that were killed in Newtown, CT?
I see the potential children not born due to abortion as no different as the potential children not born because I haven't gotten anybody pregnant.

I just can't believe you don't see the difference between stopping a pregnancy from becoming a human being and taking a young child who is playing hide and seek and shooting him in the head. I just... I can't make heads or tails of the thought process.


I know this thread is now WAY off topic, but I go back to the thought experiment I used earlier. Lets say a terrorist has a nuclear bomb set to go off in New York city and he will give you the detonator if you shoot either me or a kindergardener. Well, I hope you choose to shoot me and save New York. It would suck, but I'd understand your decision and I'd be okay with that. But if that same terrorist said your choice was to either shoot me, or give a girl the day after pill... Man, I'd be pissed if you still felt like shooting me was the best choice. I wouldn't be pissed for very long though. But good luck integrating back into society once people find out what you did.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:34 PM   #1225
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All of your points are assumptions on your part.

You don't have any interest in seeing any point of view other than your own. Now that you've stated your opinion I doubt there is any way to convince you that you are wrong, seems as if there is a stalemate between ideologies.

Academically, yes this is probably the case. Philosophers have gone round and round with the definition of "human being" for generations. The fact is, there probably isn't an "objective" truth to this. Just like there isn't an objective truth to the "what makes it art" debate. In the end, you have to just give these things the eye test and go with your gut. But there are arguments that can be convincing. All the arguments that I've heard for infanticide seem horrible to me, so I don't believe in infanticide. All the arguments that I've heard for abortion in the 3rd trimester (right to choose at any time, etc...) seem really bad to me. So I don't believe in abortion after the pregnancy has developed into a viable human being. But the arguments that I've heard for early termination seem reasonable, and the people who argue that a fetus is a human being seem to have all of their work in front of them. If you showed me a fetus in a jar, you'd really have a hard time coming up with some kind of definition of "human being" which included that thing. Looks like parts to me.
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:04 PM   #1226
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Academically, yes this is probably the case. Philosophers have gone round and round with the definition of "human being" for generations. The fact is, there probably isn't an "objective" truth to this. Just like there isn't an objective truth to the "what makes it art" debate. In the end, you have to just give these things the eye test and go with your gut. But there are arguments that can be convincing. All the arguments that I've heard for infanticide seem horrible to me, so I don't believe in infanticide. All the arguments that I've heard for abortion in the 3rd trimester (right to choose at any time, etc...) seem really bad to me. So I don't believe in abortion after the pregnancy has developed into a viable human being. But the arguments that I've heard for early termination seem reasonable, and the people who argue that a fetus is a human being seem to have all of their work in front of them. If you showed me a fetus in a jar, you'd really have a hard time coming up with some kind of definition of "human being" which included that thing. Looks like parts to me.
You can't really make the determination of when you are a "human being", you see you never were at risk of being terminated by the choice of your mother.
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:07 PM   #1227
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I see the potential children not born due to abortion as no different as the potential children not born because I haven't gotten anybody pregnant.

I just can't believe you don't see the difference between stopping a pregnancy from becoming a human being and taking a young child who is playing hide and seek and shooting him in the head. I just... I can't make heads or tails of the thought process.


I know this thread is now WAY off topic, but I go back to the thought experiment I used earlier. Lets say a terrorist has a nuclear bomb set to go off in New York city and he will give you the detonator if you shoot either me or a kindergardener. Well, I hope you choose to shoot me and save New York. It would suck, but I'd understand your decision and I'd be okay with that. But if that same terrorist said your choice was to either shoot me, or give a girl the day after pill... Man, I'd be pissed if you still felt like shooting me was the best choice. I wouldn't be pissed for very long though. But good luck integrating back into society once people find out what you did.
The argument isn't whether I can see the difference in your second paragraph, the argument is that life begins at conception. There is no way to deny that, and if it is life then killing the baby is not a choice.

Your last paragraph is an absurd illogical conclusion on your part.
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:10 PM   #1228
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More likely 20,000,000 more people leeching off the system. It always amuses me to hear you people bitch about how many abortions there are and then complain about millions of people on welfare.
MAO! You presume that the 20,000,000 that have been aborted are going to be welfare babies. I have all of the compassion in the world for the helpless, I have zero for the clueless, like you know those you are talking about that I might be complaining about on welfare that can work but choose not to because they get free stuff. You getting free stuff? Are you part of the problem or attempting to be part of the solution?
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:42 PM   #1229
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MAO! You presume that the 20,000,000 that have been aborted are going to be welfare babies. I have all of the compassion in the world for the helpless, I have zero for the clueless, like you know those you are talking about that I might be complaining about on welfare that can work but choose not to because they get free stuff. You getting free stuff? Are you part of the problem or attempting to be part of the solution?
Let's say only half of them were going to be welfare babies. The math still works.

Go check out the EBT thread about the baby momma with 8 kids. Can you seriously tell me we'd be worse off if she had aborted those 8 kids she cannot support?
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:03 PM   #1230
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Let's say only half of them were going to be welfare babies. The math still works.

Go check out the EBT thread about the baby momma with 8 kids. Can you seriously tell me we'd be worse off if she had aborted those 8 kids she cannot support?
You aren't giving the people of America much credit. I don't think I could have as negative of a view of people as you do if I tried.

You are trying to say that America would be better off without those 8 kids, are you presuming that they will have nothing to offer humanity? Those 8 kids, just like the 20 in Newtown that were killed, if you had you way would never have a chance to make the world a better place.

I see you as a person that has gives no value to life. Sorry you feel that way, there could be a bun in the oven that could make you a nice person. As it stands you'd rather kill off all the unborn so you don't have to bare their burden.
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