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Old 12-16-2012, 02:14 PM  
Chocolate Hog Chocolate Hog is offline
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Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-USSR) to introduce assault weapons ban

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) said Sunday on NBC's Meet The Press that she will introduce an assault weapons ban bill on the first day of the new Congress.



http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-T...ay-Of-Congress
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:26 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
At the chance of stopping or prohibiting something like last Friday from happening, would you say it isn't worth it?

This is where I'm at. I can't really say one way or another. If I have to give up a hobby for something like this to not happen again, ok.

But I'm not at the point where I think giving up that hobby will stop something like this from happening.
If you could convince me this wouldn't happen, I'd consider it.

You can't convince me of that for the reasons I've already stated. I'm not willing to surrender my personal freedom for the infinitesimal chance that the difference between someone using an AR and a shotgun is going to be the difference in a tragedy like this.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:29 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
Terrorist attacks are rare too, live with those?

I just think or feel that if we should explore any way to stop or atleast severely limit the chance of these happening.
If you've got a way to identify the lone nuts who want to pull off mass killings in the US, I'm all in with a plan to counter that threat. But you don't. On the other hand, we do know who our enemies are in the GWoT, so no, we shouldn't just live with terrorist attacks like 9/11. Having said that, we will never be able to completely eradicate terrorism so to some degree we will have to live with one-off terrorist events.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:29 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
This is an interesting demonstrative:

7.62 vs. 5.56 vs. a 9mm



The 5.56 is for all intents and purposes a .223 round. Look at it compared to the humble 9mm. The 9mm is a significantly larger round. And if you talk to a soldier, many of them will not carry a 9mm because of the lack of stopping power.

The old soldiers scream to this day about the conversion from the 7.62 to the 5.56 round. You look at the shell and you see why. The 5.56 round just isn't that damaging a round. It's almost universally reviled among soldiers who's job is killing people.

The AR is not a terribly effective weapon for killing people. Why do people use it? Because they're ****ing crazy, that's why. Crazy is attracted to scary looking things and intimidation. The AR is undeniably scary.

But in the absence of an AR, they're going to go get a semi-auto rifle that makes a hell of a lot bigger hole. I can't find a good .223 vs. 30.06 comparison, but this is close:



The .308 is a comparable round (far right) - it's freakin' dwarfs the .223 (far left, with a 30-30 in the middle). The politicians are going to keep screaming about how "The AR isn't designed for killing deer!" and nobody's going to bother asking why. The answer is straightforward - it isn't very good at killing stuff. Period.
and if that humble 9mm is a hollow-point, good night.

Giffords would not have survived if that crazy dude knew what he was doing. Lucky for her he picked full metal jackets, and even then her injury was obviously devastating.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:31 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
If you could convince me this wouldn't happen, I'd consider it.

You can't convince me of that for the reasons I've already stated. I'm not willing to surrender my personal freedom for the infinitesimal chance that the difference between someone using an AR and a shotgun is going to be the difference in a tragedy like this.
Probably so.

I know in my case however, I'd be a lot less likely to pull something off like this with a shotgun than a high round semi auto, but my pump action isn't the greatest.

Dad always dominates me at multiple clay birds, and it infuriates me.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:33 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
If you've got a way to identify the lone nuts who want to pull off mass killings in the US, I'm all in with a plan to counter that threat. But you don't. On the other hand, we do know who our enemies are in the GWoT, so no, we shouldn't just live with terrorist attacks like 9/11. Having said that, we will never be able to completely eradicate terrorism so to some degree we will have to live with one-off terrorist events.
Short of yearly psychological testing for everyone, I don't know how you do that. Even then, I dunno, I'm sure some would be cunning enough to slide thru the cracks.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:33 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by teedubya View Post
Here are some numbers,

Purchases of 2012:

450 Million Hollow Point Ammo - Homeland Security
750 Million High Powered Ammo - Homeland Security
200 Million Sniper Rounds - Homeland Security
174 Thousand Hollow Point Ammo - Social Security Administration
85 Thousand Hollow Point Ammo - US Forest Service
187 Thousand other Ammo - US Forest Service
40 Thousand Hollow Point Ammo - National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration

So why would Homeland Security suddenly need well over 1 billions rounds, 450 million of which are Hollow Point?

In 2012 we've had multiple "mass shootings", increased mainstream talk of Gun laws, taking away of our Guns etc all the while Government agencies are loading up!

Being the conspiracy theorist that I am, this raises eyebrows...
I started a thread back in August about this very thing, but it didn't get much attention. I thought it was extremely suspicious that gov't agencies would need well over 1 billion rounds of ammo in such a short period of time. Its way too much, even for training purposes. Its obvious that they are stockpiling in preparation for something. Its anybody's guess what they're preparing for.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=262445
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:35 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
Probably so.

I know in my case however, I'd be a lot less likely to pull something off like this with a shotgun than a high round semi auto, but my pump action isn't the greatest.

Dad always dominates me at multiple clay birds, and it infuriates me.
And therein the problem lies.

People are trying to project themselves into the minds of a deranged human being. Deranged doesn't care if he can't get an AR, he's going to find the next massive weapon he can.

Out comes the 12 ga. So while you and I may make the calculation that maybe this will be more difficult with a shotgun than it would with a high-powered rifle, the crazy person doesn't.

And in the end, I've never had a mis-feed with my beater 870. My buddy's AR, OTOH (ironically enough, a Bushmaster), mis-feeds all the damn time. And he's a freakin' Major that graduated from the Citadel and spent 18 months in Iraq. Needless to say, he knows how to maintain his weapon.

This is going to be a hell of a lot of freedom lost and I'm not at all convinced it will make an appreciable difference.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:39 PM   #143
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I started a thread back in August about this very thing, but it didn't get much attention. I thought it was extremely suspicious that gov't agencies would need well over 1 billion rounds of ammo in such a short period of time. Its way too much, even for training purposes. Its obvious that they are stockpiling in preparation for something. Its anybody's guess what they're preparing for.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=262445
I see at least one person is paying attention.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:39 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
And therein the problem lies.

People are trying to project themselves into the minds of a deranged human being. Deranged doesn't care if he can't get an AR, he's going to find the next massive weapon he can.

Out comes the 12 ga. So while you and I may make the calculation that maybe this will be more difficult with a shotgun than it would with a high-powered rifle, the crazy person doesn't.

And in the end, I've never had a mis-feed with my beater 870. My buddy's AR, OTOH (ironically enough, a Bushmaster), mis-feeds all the damn time. And he's a freakin' Major that graduated from the Citadel and spent 18 months in Iraq. Needless to say, he knows how to maintain his weapon.

This is going to be a hell of a lot of freedom lost and I'm not at all convinced it will make an appreciable difference.
Probably so.

I think it's not just going to be gun control. IMO, thats putting a band aid on a (no pun intended) bullet wound.

This is such a multifaceted problem, that I don't know how you fix it. You've got the gun side, the mental side, the society making weapons out side.

It's scary.

But, in my mind now, I can't shake the thought of those kids getting shot multiple times by a deranged misguided human and I feel that I, myself, need to do something.

With my wife and I about to have our first in about 7 months, I can't fathom going thru this.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:41 PM   #145
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Add every country in Europe and GB while you are at it. And Canada
damned canadians anyway!

obviously they're socialists like all the regimes in europe...
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:51 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
Probably so.

I think it's not just going to be gun control. IMO, thats putting a band aid on a (no pun intended) bullet wound.

This is such a multifaceted problem, that I don't know how you fix it. You've got the gun side, the mental side, the society making weapons out side.

It's scary.

But, in my mind now, I can't shake the thought of those kids getting shot multiple times by a deranged misguided human and I feel that I, myself, need to do something.

With my wife and I about to have our first in about 7 months, I can't fathom going thru this.
I think the first thing you should do is accept the fact that we can't fix everything.

And then try to recognize that the wall-to-wall media coverage distorts the the impression you have about how common this is. Your kid is more likely to die in a car accident while you're driving him somewhere than he is to die at the hands of a crazy gunman. If you're not afraid to strap him (or her) into his car seat for a ride to a play date or to his grandma's house, don't let the possibility of something far less likely keep you up at night.

Congrats on the future baby.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:57 PM   #147
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I think the first thing you should do is accept the fact that we can't fix everything.

And then try to recognize that the wall-to-wall media coverage distorts the the impression you have about how common this is. Your kid is more likely to die in a car accident while you're driving him somewhere than he is to die at the hands of a crazy gunman. If you're not afraid to strap him (or her) into his car seat for a ride to a play date or to his grandma's house, don't let the possibility of something far less likely keep you up at night.

Congrats on the future baby.
Thanks.


And on the car front, while that is true, we are continuously trying and succeeding in improving car safety. The same should be done in regards to mental health and research in this country, gun control (for lack of better words), etc.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:11 PM   #148
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I started a thread back in August about this very thing, but it didn't get much attention. I thought it was extremely suspicious that gov't agencies would need well over 1 billion rounds of ammo in such a short period of time. Its way too much, even for training purposes. Its obvious that they are stockpiling in preparation for something. Its anybody's guess what they're preparing for.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=262445
Why would it be extremely suspicious? What is your basis for thinking this is a high amount? Do you have any idea how much ammo they purchase on a yearly basis, or are you just suspicious because you think it's a high number? Do you know how many different departments are under the DHS umbrella?

Federal Law Enforcement Training Center
United States Customs and Border Protection
United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement
United States Coast Guard
United States Secret Service

Lots of people having been using this as proof of some sort of conspiracy theory. But I haven't seen anyone provide any reasoning for such silly fears other that "WOW lotsa bullets!"

But the truth is that they simply contracted it in this way because it saves money and allows them to plan for the future and ensure supply. It's called an IDIQ contract. It's no different than the way huge places like Walmart or Home Depot operate.

Quote:
DHS contracted with a manufacturer for 40 caliber ammunition not to exceed 450 million rounds. Like with most of their contracts, prior to negotiating DHS headquarters in Washington reaches out to all the agencies under their umbrella, including state and local police forces, Customs and Border Patrol (CBP), etc, and asks them all how much of a certain item they need. Once they have an account of the full amount of an item needed and have reviewed those requests, they put out a request for an “Indefinite Delivery Indefinite Quantity” (IDIQ) contract. This contract allows them to purchase up to a certain number of needed items without requiring them to purchase a specific item and allows them to purchase this item over a certain number of years. This is a common form of contract used by DHS for many of their needed supplies, including working dogs, computer equipment, vehicles, etc.

In this case, DHS entered into a contract that allows them to purchase up to 450 million rounds of 40 caliber ammunition over the next five years. They cannot exceed 450 million rounds and are not required to purchase 450 million rounds. Basically, they have a tab with a manufacturer to order more rounds as they are needed over the next five years – not a onetime ammunition order.

Setting up contracts in this manner allows for a cheaper purchase price, saving money over the long-term. In fact, contracts like this one saved taxpayers $336 million in FY2011 alone. Additionally, purchasing in bulk like this helps DHS headquarter conduct better oversight over its agencies and ensures consistency among all the agencies under DHS. So, in this case CPB, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the U.S. Secret Service, and other DHS agencies will all use the same 40 caliber round so these rounds can move between agencies if need be – another way to potentially save money down the road.

To put this more concisely, just like you and your family take that monthly trip to Sam’s Club or Costco to get your bulk needs cheaply, DHS also buys in bulk because it saves the American taxpayers money.

http://westmoreland.house.gov/index....642&Itemid=372
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:16 PM   #149
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Thanks.


And on the car front, while that is true, we are continuously trying and succeeding in improving car safety. The same should be done in regards to mental health and research in this country, gun control (for lack of better words), etc.
Should equal effort be put into car safety and safety from extremely rare, crazy, mass murderers or should a sense of proportion prevail?
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:30 PM   #150
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It's usually better to base policy on rational thought than it is to have knee-jerk, emotional reactions to rare tragedies.
I agree so make sure you let TSA know that so I don't have to take my shoes off at the airport anymore.

Also let them know granny in a wheel chair is not I repeat not a terrorist

Thank you
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