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Old 12-16-2012, 10:35 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Let's research gun violence.

I've said this in a couple other threads, but I don't believe that gun control is going to get any traction in Congress. Some Democrats will push for it, some other Republicans will table it, some pro-gun control folks like myself will cry foul, and yet another Congress will pass without any gun control measures seeing the light of day.

But here's one thing that maybe we can start doing: better educate ourselves on gun violence, so we can stop stabbing in the dark as to what we can better do to mitigate it.

The problem is that for a couple decades now, the government has not been able to produce any information on gun violence because the NRA has been threatening war if Congress failed to choke off all funding for gun-related research.

The CDC and NIH used to conduct research for decades, but around the time of the late 90s, the NRA became so powerful it was able to prevent these agencies from granting funds to researchers on those topics. McClatchy DC:

Quote:
The CDC and NIH award billions in grants. They fund research into cancer, brain injury, tobacco use, obesity, AIDS, abortion, hearing loss, allergies, infectious diseases, back pain and virtually everything else related to human health. But gun violence is the one area that carries that specific language. The effect has been to limit federal funding into research that could be used to shape policy.
This is irresponsible. We pass hundreds of gun-related laws across the country every few years. Like all laws, we should be able to research the impact of the laws we pass, so we can make decisions based on more than pure ideology.

Anyway, there's a ton of stories on this, but here's a really good one from last year in the Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/us...anted=all&_r=0

N.R.A. Stymies Firearms Research, Scientists Say
By MICHAEL LUO
Published: January 25, 2011

In the wake of the shootings in Tucson, the familiar questions inevitably resurfaced: Are communities where more people carry guns safer or less safe? Does the availability of high-capacity magazines increase deaths? Do more rigorous background checks make a difference?

The reality is that even these and other basic questions cannot be fully answered, because not enough research has been done. And there is a reason for that. Scientists in the field and former officials with the government agency that used to finance the great bulk of this research say the influence of the National Rife Association has all but choked off money for such work.

“We’ve been stopped from answering the basic questions,” said Mark Rosenberg, former director of the National Center for Injury Control and Prevention, part of the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which was for about a decade the leading source of financing for firearms research.

Chris Cox, the N.R.A.’s chief lobbyist, said his group had not tried to squelch genuine scientific inquiries, just politically slanted ones.

“Our concern is not with legitimate medical science,” Mr. Cox said. “Our concern is they were promoting the idea that gun ownership was a disease that needed to be eradicated.”

The amount of money available today for studying the impact of firearms is a fraction of what it was in the mid-1990s, and the number of scientists toiling in the field has dwindled to just a handful as a result, researchers say.

The dearth of money can be traced in large measure to a clash between public health scientists and the N.R.A. in the mid-1990s. At the time, Dr. Rosenberg and others at the C.D.C. were becoming increasingly assertive about the importance of studying gun-related injuries and deaths as a public health phenomenon, financing studies that found, for example, having a gun in the house, rather than conferring protection, significantly increased the risk of homicide by a family member or intimate acquaintance.

Alarmed, the N.R.A. and its allies on Capitol Hill fought back. The injury center was guilty of “putting out papers that were really political opinion masquerading as medical science,” said Mr. Cox, who also worked on this issue for the N.R.A. more than a decade ago.

Initially, pro-gun lawmakers sought to eliminate the injury center completely, arguing that its work was “redundant” and reflected a political agenda. When that failed, they turned to the appropriations process. In 1996, Representative Jay Dickey, Republican of Arkansas, succeeded in pushing through an amendment that stripped $2.6 million from the disease control centers’ budget, the very amount it had spent on firearms-related research the year before.

“It’s really simple with me,” Mr. Dickey, 71 and now retired, said in a telephone interview. “We have the right to bear arms because of the threat of government taking over the freedoms that we have.”

The Senate later restored the money but designated it for research on traumatic brain injury. Language was also inserted into the centers’ appropriations bill that remains in place today: “None of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control.”

The prohibition is striking, firearms researchers say, because there are already regulations that bar the use of C.D.C. money for lobbying for or against legislation. No other field of inquiry is singled out in this way.

In the end, researchers said, even though it is murky what exactly is allowed under this provision and what is not, the upshot is clear inside the centers: the agency should tread in this area only at its own peril.

“They had a near-death experience,” said Dr. Arthur Kellermann, whose study on the risks versus the benefits of having guns in the home became a focal point of attack by the N.R.A.

In the years since, the C.D.C. has been exceedingly wary of financing research focused on firearms. In its annual requests for proposals, for example, firearms research has been notably absent. Gail Hayes, spokeswoman for the centers, confirmed that since 1996, while the agency has issued requests for proposals that include the study of violence, which may include gun violence, it had not sent out any specifically on firearms.

“For policy to be effective, it needs to be based on evidence,” said Dr. Garen Wintemute, director of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California, Davis, who had his C.D.C. financing cut in 1996. “The National Rifle Association and its allies in Congress have largely succeeded in choking off the development of evidence upon which that policy could be based.”

Private foundations initially stepped into the breach, but their attention tends to wax and wane, researchers said. They are also much more interested in work that leads to immediate results and less willing to finance basic epidemiological research that scientists say is necessary to establishing a foundation of knowledge about the connection between guns and violence, or the lack thereof.

The National Institute of Justice, part of the Justice Department, also used to finance firearms research, researchers said, but that money has also petered out in recent years. (Institute officials said they hoped to reinvigorate financing in this area.)

Stephen Teret, founding director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research, estimated that the amount of money available for firearms research was a quarter of what it used to be. With so much uncertainty about financing, Mr. Teret said, the circle of academics who study the phenomenon has fallen off significantly.

After the centers’ clash with the N.R.A., Mr. Teret said he was asked by C.D.C. officials to “curtail some things I was saying about guns and gun policy.”

Mr. Teret objected, saying his public comments about gun policy did not come while he was on the “C.D.C. meter.” After he threatened to file a lawsuit against the agency, Mr. Teret said, the officials backed down and gave him “a little bit more leeway.”

C.D.C. financing for research on gun violence has not stopped completely, but it is now mostly limited to work in which firearms are only a component.

The centers also ask researchers it finances to give it a heads-up anytime they are publishing studies that have anything to do with firearms. The agency, in turn, relays this information to the N.R.A. as a courtesy, said Thomas Skinner, a spokesman for the centers.

Invariably, researchers said, whenever their work touches upon firearms, the C.D.C. becomes squeamish. In the end, they said, it is often simply easier to avoid the topic if they want to continue to be in the agency’s good graces.

Dr. Stephen Hargarten, professor and chairman of emergency medicine at the Medical College of Wisconsin, used to direct a research center, financed by the C.D.C., that focused on gun violence, but he said he had now shifted his attention to other issues.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:22 PM   #121
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I love how anti gun nuts talk shit on message boards.
They want to take our guns. But none of the cock gobblers would ever be man enough to do the taking.
Ok keyboard warrior.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:24 PM   #122
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I prefer knives. Never pulled a gun on anyone.
and it gets better. That's why you got stuck in the neck dumbass. Getting stabbed doesn't make you cool or tough. It just makes you a dumbass for getting stuck.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:30 PM   #123
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What did he have to say about it?
Can't remember the exact words, but more or less he reminded his listeners that the recent shooting wasn't the largest school shooting in our country, said that the largest involved government employees, government owned firearms, and flamethrowers, and it was known as Waco.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:31 PM   #124
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I did a thesis on Prohibition, and I compared it to the modern day war on drugs (namely marijuana). In legalizing either one, there came federal regulations. I've not read where anyone is banning guns altogether (maybe I've overlooked something). Just like alcohol or marijuana, I think they should be legal as long as there are regulations.
I've said this many times, but you need to look no farther than the war on tobacco to see the liberal nanny state game plan. It starts small - take the ads off TV. A reasonable person agrees that this is reasonable. Then its no smoking on planes. Reasonable person agrees. Then ban it at the work place. Reasonable person grudgingly goes to the smoking lounge. Then they take the smoking lounge away. All while raising taxes a buck a pack every other year. Do you see where I'm going with this? THAT'S THE MINDSET. The fascists behind this want to appeal to your reasonable nature. They bombard you with horrible images and play to your fears. They skew the facts - they outright lie. And their endgame has nothing to do with reason or compromise. If they get "assault" rifles, next will be semi-automatic handguns. Then it will be all handguns. Then it will be rifles. Then you're living in communist China wondering what the **** happened. Don't believe me? Think I'm nuts, or paranoid? I am a student of history, my dear, and know how the game is played. There is no reasoning with these people - no compromise. You dig in now and fight the good fight. The alternative is oblivion.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:33 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
@ anyone who thinks Waco was a massacre or some kind of conspiracy. ****ing defend child molesters
You must not be aware that the basis for that attack was the manufacturing of firearms, that they had a license to manufacture and that they ATF decided to take away that license and attack them to try and prove some point to other manufacturers.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:33 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
Ok there herpes.

Anyone else? Why haven't the recent shooters just used bombs and airplane tickets then?

Because they're young, poor, ignorant ****heads without the life skills or knowledge to put that together. That and they're copycat pussies.

Maybe you're more qualified to tell me what is inside the mind of a douchebag lunatic?
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:35 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by A Salt Weapon View Post
You must not be aware that the basis for that attack was the manufacturing of firearms, that they had a license to manufacture and that they ATF decided to take away that license and attack them to try and prove some point to other manufacturers.
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Give him a break - that angle wasn't reported on CNN.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:37 PM   #128
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Riddle me this...

Prohibition lead to crime, organized crime and was deemed a dismal failure.
The War on drugs is typically disparaged by many of the same people who support gun control, because it creates power within criminal organizations.

But you think that organizing prohibition on weapons is going to keep someone motivated enough to shoot up an elementary school from doing their harm?

I'll be damned if I'll allow the same government who intentionally shipped weapons into the hands of Mexican warlords is going to take any of my rights as a law abiding citizen away.

When atrocities like these are committed, the criminal is already fully aware they are breaking multiple laws and committing multiple felonies. They've likely stolen a weapon, ignored the "no guns beyond this point" sign and used it for their crime. The only thing limited by gun control will be the possibility that some honest, private citizen can stop it before more people die. Throwing my can of soda or tub of popcorn isn't likely to do it.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:38 PM   #129
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I've said this many times, but you need to look no farther than the war on tobacco to see the liberal nanny state game plan. It starts small - take the ads off TV. A reasonable person agrees that this is reasonable. Then its no smoking on planes. Reasonable person agrees. Then ban it at the work place. Reasonable person grudgingly goes to the smoking lounge. Then they take the smoking lounge away. All while raising taxes a buck a pack every other year. Do you see where I'm going with this? THAT'S THE MINDSET. The fascists behind this want to appeal to your reasonable nature. They bombard you with horrible images and play to your fears. They skew the facts - they outright lie. And their endgame has nothing to do with reason or compromise. If they get "assault" rifles, next will be semi-automatic handguns. Then it will be all handguns. Then it will be rifles. Then you're living in communist China wondering what the **** happened. Don't believe me? Think I'm nuts, or paranoid? I am a student of history, my dear, and know how the game is played. There is no reasoning with these people - no compromise. You dig in now and fight the good fight. The alternative is oblivion.
You left one small detail out though, smoking isn't a constitutional right while owning guns is.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:40 PM   #130
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You left one small detail out though, smoking isn't a constitutional right while owning guns is.
If that's all you took from my post, you clearly missed the point.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:42 PM   #131
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And Direckshun pulls this old LIE out of his playbook.

The premise that the CDC is somehow prevented from doing research into gun violence is complete and total bullshit.

This is based on the complaints from leftists like Direckshun who don't like the fact that there is a law in place which prevents the CDC from funding studies that are solely purposed to advocate gun control.

People like him conveniently ignore the fact that the CDC DOES gun violence research all the time... they just don't like that it isn't the propaganda they expect.

Click this link and see for yourself.
http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/index.html

And for those who missed it, here is the law that has Direckshun all hot and bothered...

Quote:
The Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act specifies that: "None of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control."
So, basically, he wants YOUR money to be used to promote HIS agenda.

Hey Direckshun, how about we get the CDC to fund a study promoting prayer in school as it relates to increased social stability and mental health? Or better yet, you ok with the CDC funding a study that advocates for stricter prohibition on abortions because the people behind the "study" think life begins at conception?
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:43 PM   #132
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By the way, Dirk, if you go to youtube and type in "Waco Massacre" you'll find several videos that might make you think twice about what happened there.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:44 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by A Salt Weapon View Post
You must not be aware that the basis for that attack was the manufacturing of firearms, that they had a license to manufacture and that they ATF decided to take away that license and attack them to try and prove some point to other manufacturers.
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Yes I know and I could care less.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:46 PM   #134
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Ok keyboard warrior.
Guacamole or taco sauce Native ?
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:48 PM   #135
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If that's all you took from my post, you clearly missed the point.
No I understood your point very well. You believe that like smoking, guns will be slowly taken away until there is nothing left.

But in order for all guns to be taken away they would have to repeal the 2nd amendment which is never going to happen.
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