Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-16-2012, 10:35 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $1209023
Let's research gun violence.

I've said this in a couple other threads, but I don't believe that gun control is going to get any traction in Congress. Some Democrats will push for it, some other Republicans will table it, some pro-gun control folks like myself will cry foul, and yet another Congress will pass without any gun control measures seeing the light of day.

But here's one thing that maybe we can start doing: better educate ourselves on gun violence, so we can stop stabbing in the dark as to what we can better do to mitigate it.

The problem is that for a couple decades now, the government has not been able to produce any information on gun violence because the NRA has been threatening war if Congress failed to choke off all funding for gun-related research.

The CDC and NIH used to conduct research for decades, but around the time of the late 90s, the NRA became so powerful it was able to prevent these agencies from granting funds to researchers on those topics. McClatchy DC:

Quote:
The CDC and NIH award billions in grants. They fund research into cancer, brain injury, tobacco use, obesity, AIDS, abortion, hearing loss, allergies, infectious diseases, back pain and virtually everything else related to human health. But gun violence is the one area that carries that specific language. The effect has been to limit federal funding into research that could be used to shape policy.
This is irresponsible. We pass hundreds of gun-related laws across the country every few years. Like all laws, we should be able to research the impact of the laws we pass, so we can make decisions based on more than pure ideology.

Anyway, there's a ton of stories on this, but here's a really good one from last year in the Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/us...anted=all&_r=0

N.R.A. Stymies Firearms Research, Scientists Say
By MICHAEL LUO
Published: January 25, 2011

In the wake of the shootings in Tucson, the familiar questions inevitably resurfaced: Are communities where more people carry guns safer or less safe? Does the availability of high-capacity magazines increase deaths? Do more rigorous background checks make a difference?

The reality is that even these and other basic questions cannot be fully answered, because not enough research has been done. And there is a reason for that. Scientists in the field and former officials with the government agency that used to finance the great bulk of this research say the influence of the National Rife Association has all but choked off money for such work.

“We’ve been stopped from answering the basic questions,” said Mark Rosenberg, former director of the National Center for Injury Control and Prevention, part of the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which was for about a decade the leading source of financing for firearms research.

Chris Cox, the N.R.A.’s chief lobbyist, said his group had not tried to squelch genuine scientific inquiries, just politically slanted ones.

“Our concern is not with legitimate medical science,” Mr. Cox said. “Our concern is they were promoting the idea that gun ownership was a disease that needed to be eradicated.”

The amount of money available today for studying the impact of firearms is a fraction of what it was in the mid-1990s, and the number of scientists toiling in the field has dwindled to just a handful as a result, researchers say.

The dearth of money can be traced in large measure to a clash between public health scientists and the N.R.A. in the mid-1990s. At the time, Dr. Rosenberg and others at the C.D.C. were becoming increasingly assertive about the importance of studying gun-related injuries and deaths as a public health phenomenon, financing studies that found, for example, having a gun in the house, rather than conferring protection, significantly increased the risk of homicide by a family member or intimate acquaintance.

Alarmed, the N.R.A. and its allies on Capitol Hill fought back. The injury center was guilty of “putting out papers that were really political opinion masquerading as medical science,” said Mr. Cox, who also worked on this issue for the N.R.A. more than a decade ago.

Initially, pro-gun lawmakers sought to eliminate the injury center completely, arguing that its work was “redundant” and reflected a political agenda. When that failed, they turned to the appropriations process. In 1996, Representative Jay Dickey, Republican of Arkansas, succeeded in pushing through an amendment that stripped $2.6 million from the disease control centers’ budget, the very amount it had spent on firearms-related research the year before.

“It’s really simple with me,” Mr. Dickey, 71 and now retired, said in a telephone interview. “We have the right to bear arms because of the threat of government taking over the freedoms that we have.”

The Senate later restored the money but designated it for research on traumatic brain injury. Language was also inserted into the centers’ appropriations bill that remains in place today: “None of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control.”

The prohibition is striking, firearms researchers say, because there are already regulations that bar the use of C.D.C. money for lobbying for or against legislation. No other field of inquiry is singled out in this way.

In the end, researchers said, even though it is murky what exactly is allowed under this provision and what is not, the upshot is clear inside the centers: the agency should tread in this area only at its own peril.

“They had a near-death experience,” said Dr. Arthur Kellermann, whose study on the risks versus the benefits of having guns in the home became a focal point of attack by the N.R.A.

In the years since, the C.D.C. has been exceedingly wary of financing research focused on firearms. In its annual requests for proposals, for example, firearms research has been notably absent. Gail Hayes, spokeswoman for the centers, confirmed that since 1996, while the agency has issued requests for proposals that include the study of violence, which may include gun violence, it had not sent out any specifically on firearms.

“For policy to be effective, it needs to be based on evidence,” said Dr. Garen Wintemute, director of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California, Davis, who had his C.D.C. financing cut in 1996. “The National Rifle Association and its allies in Congress have largely succeeded in choking off the development of evidence upon which that policy could be based.”

Private foundations initially stepped into the breach, but their attention tends to wax and wane, researchers said. They are also much more interested in work that leads to immediate results and less willing to finance basic epidemiological research that scientists say is necessary to establishing a foundation of knowledge about the connection between guns and violence, or the lack thereof.

The National Institute of Justice, part of the Justice Department, also used to finance firearms research, researchers said, but that money has also petered out in recent years. (Institute officials said they hoped to reinvigorate financing in this area.)

Stephen Teret, founding director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research, estimated that the amount of money available for firearms research was a quarter of what it used to be. With so much uncertainty about financing, Mr. Teret said, the circle of academics who study the phenomenon has fallen off significantly.

After the centers’ clash with the N.R.A., Mr. Teret said he was asked by C.D.C. officials to “curtail some things I was saying about guns and gun policy.”

Mr. Teret objected, saying his public comments about gun policy did not come while he was on the “C.D.C. meter.” After he threatened to file a lawsuit against the agency, Mr. Teret said, the officials backed down and gave him “a little bit more leeway.”

C.D.C. financing for research on gun violence has not stopped completely, but it is now mostly limited to work in which firearms are only a component.

The centers also ask researchers it finances to give it a heads-up anytime they are publishing studies that have anything to do with firearms. The agency, in turn, relays this information to the N.R.A. as a courtesy, said Thomas Skinner, a spokesman for the centers.

Invariably, researchers said, whenever their work touches upon firearms, the C.D.C. becomes squeamish. In the end, they said, it is often simply easier to avoid the topic if they want to continue to be in the agency’s good graces.

Dr. Stephen Hargarten, professor and chairman of emergency medicine at the Medical College of Wisconsin, used to direct a research center, financed by the C.D.C., that focused on gun violence, but he said he had now shifted his attention to other issues.
Posts: 43,706
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:19 PM   #271
luv luv is offline
Someday
 
luv's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Springfield, MO
Casino cash: $993449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
Why would you need more than one pair of shoes?
Is your gun supposed to match your belt?
__________________
It's never too late to become the person you were meant to be.
Posts: 59,620
luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:20 PM   #272
verbaljitsu verbaljitsu is offline
Starter
 
verbaljitsu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Casino cash: $36846
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv View Post
Why own so many guns? I mean, I understand the different types of guns for hunting, but why would you need more than one pistol?
I own different pistols because I use them for different purposes. I am also a collector and I enjoy owning them for their mechanical differences.

I carry a pistol concealed. I have different sized pistols that can fit into an appropriate wardrobe. Sometimes I wear a suit. Sometimes I wear jeans.

I also compete with two of my pistols in two different divisions.

My wife has different sized hands than I do and finds different sized firearms appropriate.

Many people also use handguns to hunt.

And because I can. Because this is America.
Posts: 425
verbaljitsu must have mowed badgirl's lawn.verbaljitsu must have mowed badgirl's lawn.verbaljitsu must have mowed badgirl's lawn.verbaljitsu must have mowed badgirl's lawn.verbaljitsu must have mowed badgirl's lawn.verbaljitsu must have mowed badgirl's lawn.verbaljitsu must have mowed badgirl's lawn.verbaljitsu must have mowed badgirl's lawn.verbaljitsu must have mowed badgirl's lawn.verbaljitsu must have mowed badgirl's lawn.verbaljitsu must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:21 PM   #273
WV WV is offline
Veteran
 
WV's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In the Holler
Casino cash: $5023394
Quote:
Originally Posted by InChiefsHell View Post
Just bought 2. There's one more handgun I'd like to get. Then I too am thinking about the AR-15.
Better hurry they are going fast just about everywhere.

http://grabagun.com/colt-m4-carbine-5-56-16-blk.html
Posts: 4,968
WV threw an interception on a screen pass.WV threw an interception on a screen pass.WV threw an interception on a screen pass.WV threw an interception on a screen pass.WV threw an interception on a screen pass.WV threw an interception on a screen pass.WV threw an interception on a screen pass.WV threw an interception on a screen pass.WV threw an interception on a screen pass.WV threw an interception on a screen pass.WV threw an interception on a screen pass.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:27 PM   #274
Fish Fish is offline
Missing Dick Curl
 
Fish's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Casino cash: $2120308
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv View Post
Is your gun supposed to match your belt?
Well... gay dudes own guns too...

But honestly, different shooting scenarios require different types of guns. If I'm in the mood to shoot a bunch of soda cans for fun, I'd want a small inexpensive gun like a .22. If I'm hiking in Dakota bear country, I want a huge powerful .45 caliber in case I run into a grizzly bear. I wouldn't want to shoot my .45 at soda cans, as the bullets are infinitely more expensive, and it would completely destroy the can. And if I took my .22 to defend myself against a bear, I'd end up as bear scat.
__________________
Posts: 25,455
Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:28 PM   #275
Frazod Frazod is offline
Banned
 
Frazod's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: my own personal pig hell
Casino cash: $1001187
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv View Post
Direckshun is a guy.
Allegedly.
Posts: 91,125
Frazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < Cassel
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:28 PM   #276
Frazod Frazod is offline
Banned
 
Frazod's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: my own personal pig hell
Casino cash: $1001187
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv View Post
Is your gun supposed to match your belt?
Mine do.
Posts: 91,125
Frazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < Cassel
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:31 PM   #277
Fish Fish is offline
Missing Dick Curl
 
Fish's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Casino cash: $2120308
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv View Post
Is your gun supposed to match your belt?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
Well... gay dudes own guns too...
Quote:
Originally Posted by frazod View Post
Mine do.
Outed....

__________________
Posts: 25,455
Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:31 PM   #278
InChiefsHell InChiefsHell is offline
Rockin' yer FACE OFF!
 
InChiefsHell's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Casino cash: $1083611
Quote:
Originally Posted by WV View Post
Better hurry they are going fast just about everywhere.

http://grabagun.com/colt-m4-carbine-5-56-16-blk.html
Hmmm...I just went to CheaperThanDirt.com and it appears they don't have a link to buy guns at all...Just ammo. I wonder if it's just some glitch on their site...
__________________

We have a million reasons for failure, but not one excuse...
Die Donks, DIE!!

A quote:
"Oh well, there's always next year. We'll be better then, you'll see..." - Every Chiefs fan for the last 42...crap...43 years...

Quit listening to all that crappy new music and check out HEADSTRONG!
Posts: 12,656
InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:33 PM   #279
InChiefsHell InChiefsHell is offline
Rockin' yer FACE OFF!
 
InChiefsHell's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Casino cash: $1083611
Wow...I just reviewed my last purchase and it says CheaperThanDirt does not sell firearms....WTF???
__________________

We have a million reasons for failure, but not one excuse...
Die Donks, DIE!!

A quote:
"Oh well, there's always next year. We'll be better then, you'll see..." - Every Chiefs fan for the last 42...crap...43 years...

Quit listening to all that crappy new music and check out HEADSTRONG!
Posts: 12,656
InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.InChiefsHell is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:35 PM   #280
Radar Chief Radar Chief is offline
Vroooom.
 
Radar Chief's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: In the box.
Casino cash: $107652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
Well... gay dudes own guns too...

But honestly, different shooting scenarios require different types of guns. If I'm in the mood to shoot a bunch of soda cans for fun, I'd want a small inexpensive gun like a .22. If I'm hiking in Dakota bear country, I want a huge powerful .45 caliber in case I run into a grizzly bear. I wouldn't want to shoot my .45 at soda cans, as the bullets are infinitely more expensive, and it would completely destroy the can. And if I took my .22 to defend myself against a bear, I'd end up as bear scat.
Agreed, but shooting a plastic jug full of water with hollow points is fun.

__________________
Like "Cool Hand" Luke I'm busting rocks.

__/|_/[___]
|/ \\_| ---OllllO
_( ))~-( ))-0--))
Posts: 22,257
Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:37 PM   #281
luv luv is offline
Someday
 
luv's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Springfield, MO
Casino cash: $993449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
Outed....

__________________
It's never too late to become the person you were meant to be.
Posts: 59,620
luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.luv is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:37 PM   #282
Frazod Frazod is offline
Banned
 
Frazod's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: my own personal pig hell
Casino cash: $1001187
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv View Post
Why own so many guns? I mean, I understand the different types of guns for hunting, but why would you need more than one pistol?
Different guns for different purposes. My primary home defender is my USP .40 caliber, police trade-in, large caliber, good stopping power. My primary range shooter is a 9mm (which takes cheaper ammo). The AR and AK are basically SHTF (shit hits the fan) guns. I live in a high populated area, and if there is ever some sort of natural disaster/economic collapse/whatever, people will turn on each other pretty quick up here. In such a scenario, you're either (a) armed or (b) ****ed. Another reason for multiple guns is you may have multiple people available to shoot.

I also have a WWII-era rifle, which is functional, but that's more of a collector piece than anything else.
Posts: 91,125
Frazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < Cassel
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:37 PM   #283
Frazod Frazod is offline
Banned
 
Frazod's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: my own personal pig hell
Casino cash: $1001187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
Outed....

Guns are black, belt is black. Bite me.
Posts: 91,125
Frazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < Cassel
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:40 PM   #284
CrazyPhuD CrazyPhuD is offline
Meow
 
CrazyPhuD's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2005
Casino cash: $1615695
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv View Post
Why own so many guns? I mean, I understand the different types of guns for hunting, but why would you need more than one pistol?
I own a number of pistols and rilfes. Mainly there are two reasons I buy firearms. Interesting Caliber, or novel firing mechanism.

One of the shotguns I bought recently was the first semi-auto roller delayed shotgun I've ever seen. Most semi-auto shotguns tend to be gas operated or inertia operated.

I bought a Desert Eagle because the 50AE is an interesting cartridge and it's one of the very few gas operated handguns. I've got a Berreta PX4 SD on the way to my FFL now because it uses a rotating barrel to lock the barrel to the slide during firing.

In short my firearms purchases are often dictated by interesting cartridges and/or interesting technology. I'm sort of a collector except that I don't really believe in collecting purists. Everything I collect should be used or what's the point.

For instances most semi-pistols are based on variations of this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil_operation

Most semi-rifles are based on variations of this tech....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas-operated_reloading
__________________
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t*rd by the clean end"
Posts: 8,013
CrazyPhuD threw an interception on a screen pass.CrazyPhuD threw an interception on a screen pass.CrazyPhuD threw an interception on a screen pass.CrazyPhuD threw an interception on a screen pass.CrazyPhuD threw an interception on a screen pass.CrazyPhuD threw an interception on a screen pass.CrazyPhuD threw an interception on a screen pass.CrazyPhuD threw an interception on a screen pass.CrazyPhuD threw an interception on a screen pass.CrazyPhuD threw an interception on a screen pass.CrazyPhuD threw an interception on a screen pass.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:41 PM   #285
Frazod Frazod is offline
Banned
 
Frazod's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: my own personal pig hell
Casino cash: $1001187
Quote:
Originally Posted by InChiefsHell View Post
Hmmm...I just went to CheaperThanDirt.com and it appears they don't have a link to buy guns at all...Just ammo. I wonder if it's just some glitch on their site...
Nope. Apparently they no longer sell guns. That must be a very recent development.
Posts: 91,125
Frazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < CasselFrazod < Cassel
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.