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Old 12-19-2012, 12:43 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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A gun control law that would actually work?

I'd say so.

A rundown of the idea:
  • A ban on firearms -- rifle or pistol -- that can hold more than six bullets.
  • A ban on firearms with detachable magazines.
Aggressive measures, sure. But one that would considerably slow down future rampages.

I don't know if that'd include buybacks on those kinds of firearms already out in the market, but to piss off the absolute maximum of the anti-gun control folks among us, let's go with that.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...y-work/266342/

A Gun Control Law That Would Actually Work
By Robert Wright
Dec 17 2012, 10:03 AM ET Comment

The AR-15 is getting its fifteen minutes of fame. Whole articles in major newspapers are devoted to the rifle that Adam Lanza used in the Newtown shooting, as the nation begins to debate restoring the ban on "assault weapons."

But the assault weapons issue is a red herring.

First of all, there's no clear and simple definition of an assault weapon, and this fact has in the past led to incoherent regulation. The defunct 1994 assault weapons ban, according to the Wall Street Journal, outlawed "semiautomatic rifles that accepted detachable magazines and possessed at least two other characteristics, including a protruding pistol grip, flash suppressor or threaded barrel or a folding or telescoping stock." Um, how important was it whether the gun Lanza used had a "flash suppressor"? And, by sacrificing that and a few other such features ("protruding pistol grip," etc.), a mass killer gets to keep his detachable magazine, for rapid reloading?

Second, focusing on assault weapons--or even rifles in general--distracts from the important issue of magazine capacity in pistols. It's true that if you had taken away Lanza's AR-15, he wouldn't have had a rifle that could fire 30 rounds without reloading. However, he was also carrying two pistols--a Glock 20 and a Sig Sauer P226--each of which can fire 15 rounds without reloading. And, actually, since two pistols are less conspicuous than a rifle, they're a more effective way to get 30 rounds of continuous fire into lots of public settings.

Imagine the following world, which it's within our power to create: It's illegal to sell or possess a firearm--rifle or pistol--that can hold more than six bullets. And it's illegal to sell or possess a firearm with a detachable magazine. In other words, once a shooter exhausted the six rounds, he couldn't just snap in another six-round magazine; he'd have to put six more bullets in the gun one by one.

In this world, a significant number of those 20 Newtown first graders would almost certainly be alive. Lanza reportedly fired six bullets from his AR-15 just to get inside the locked school. So, in the alternative universe I just described, he would then have to more or less exhaust one of his two pistols to kill the principal and school psychologist he encountered after entering. At that point, as he headed for the classrooms, he'd have six more rapid-fire bullets left, after which he'd have to reload his guns bullet by bullet.

Is there a single legitimate use of firearms that requires more than six rounds of continuous fire? Certainly not hunting. And not any sort of self-defense that's realistically imaginable, unless you've recently antagonized a Mexican drug cartel.

As the gun lobby gears up to battle proposals such as this one, you'll hear a lot about the fact that mass killings are actually a drop in the bucket of total homicides. True. But mass killings take a disproportionate toll on the nation psychologically and spiritually. Thirty individual people dying in isolated assaults in various cities is a horrible thing, but it doesn't terrify our children, and it doesn't turn our schools into bunkers.

The sort of law I'm describing would make lots of current guns illegal. (I actually own one.) So you'd have to phase the law in over a couple of years, and, to overcome political resistance, you might have to compensate gun owners for surrendering newly illegal guns--or for having them altered to comply with the law. And, even then, the resistance would be very, very strong. It might even turn out to be insurmountable. But if the question is "What could we do that would greatly reduce the scale of mass killings while preserving the right of Americans to use firearms for legitimate purposes," this, it seems to me, is a real answer.

Update, 12/17 4:25 p.m.: More than one commenter has noted that most handguns currently manufactured would be illegal under my proposal. True. (As I noted in the final paragraph, I own such a gun.) And on Twitter, @drgitlin has noted something I didn't realize: A revolver, which would be clearly legal under my proposal, can be loaded fairly quickly with a "speedloader." Well, if speedloaders are indeed so speedy that they're the functional equivalent of detachable magazines, they could be banned. And as for the fact that most or all non-revolver pistols would be illegal under my proposal: You'd be surprised how fast gun manufacturers would fill this void by designing semi-automatics that could hold a maximum of six bullets and could only be loaded one bullet at a time. I'm not saying this makes my proposal politically feasible; the number of existing owners of conventional semi-automatic pistols (i.e. semi-automatics with detachable magazines) might create insurmountable resistance to it, as I noted in the final paragraph. Still, governments do have the power to ban things that exist, and in this case creating substitutes that complied with the new law would be very doable. And, even if banning detachable magazines in pistols does prove politically infeasible, that doesn't mean we can't make real progress by doing the politically easier thing of banning all magazines, for both rifles and handguns, that hold more than six bullets. And it's a trivial matter for manufacturers to create magazines that would fit existing guns and comply with that law. In any event, we shouldn't be fooled into thinking that another ban on "assault weapons" is by itself significant progress.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:24 PM   #151
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That idea sounds like a horrible idea when, not if, the time comes to fight against an oppressive government.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:25 PM   #152
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"Banning guns is an idea whose time has come."[indent]- Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del/ Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:26 PM   #153
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"The Austrian school of economic theory has been shown time and time again to be incorrect and basically a fraud. Paul Krugman has been right all along."
--Lew Rockwell
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:29 PM   #154
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"The Austrian school of economic theory has been shown time and time again to be incorrect and basically a fraud. Paul Krugman has been right all along."
--Lew Rockwell
Are you saying this is all you can come up with? I think so. You've ceded the point.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:35 PM   #155
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Are you saying this is all you can come up with? I think so. You've ceded the point.
Take it up with Lew Rockwell. He said it.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:37 PM   #156
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Take it up with Lew Rockwell. He said it.
So what guns if any do you own cosmo?
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:37 PM   #157
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Now prove or attempt to prove your claim what of those is false?
Where's patteau? I think he's the foremost expert on BEP's love affair with made-up quotes.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:38 PM   #158
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Take it up with Lew Rockwell. He said it.
At least Pittsie could present something on two. But thank you very much for showing me you have nothing at all.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:38 PM   #159
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If you wanted to do your plan, it would cost more than 15 TRILLION dollars. That would double the national debt overnight. It is 4x the national budget in 2012. It is 15x the amount of currency in circulation.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:46 PM   #160
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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So what guns if any do you own cosmo?
You should hope you never find out. Those that have, they aren't doing much talking about it.

I don't see how that's relevant to anything. I haven't said anything about being for bans. I think the only thing I've really said in this thread is that BEP is posting a bunch of made-up BS.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:48 PM   #161
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Isn't that special. The internet is sort of like the bible - if you dig deep enough, eventually you'll find something to support your bullshit position.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:49 PM   #162
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frazod, ffs, you're acting as if you've never come across BucEyedPea before. Those quotes are completely fabricated. Sarah Brady is not a socialist. Janet Reno never said that.
Yeah, it's not like the **** has dedicated her entire existence to destroying gun rights or anything.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:49 PM   #163
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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At least Pittsie could present something on two. But thank you very much for showing me you have nothing at all.
You're hilarious. I knew, and was the first to say, that the Brady and Reno quotes were false. I've seen them before. But I'm not going to spend the night bebunking every item on your bullshit lists when a spot check shows several to be known frauds.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:50 PM   #164
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Isn't that special. The internet is sort of like the bible - if you dig deep enough, eventually you'll find something to support your bullshit position.
Not too hard when you're willing to just make it up.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:50 PM   #165
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You're hilarious. I knew, and was the first to say, that the Brady and Reno quotes were false. I've seen them before. But I'm not going to spend the night bebunking every item on your bullshit lists when a spot check shows several to be known frauds.
It was just two when you first made your claim. You couldn't even do that.
Don't change the goalposts.
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