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View Poll Results: Is this an acceptable compromise?
Yes 4 12.50%
No 22 68.75%
Maybe, see my tweak to the proposal 1 3.13%
Take out the restriction on the # of rounds in a clip, then we got a deal 5 15.63%
We need to go further to restrict access to guns 0 0%
Obligatory GAZ option 0 0%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-22-2012, 08:58 AM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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BRC's propsed gun control legislation

I'm a known Obama supporter on here. I also have a long standing belief that gun control legislation usually doesn't work and besides...and this is not a small thing in the discussion..........the constitution is clear, the right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed. Thats why even though I don't own guns or hunt that I've been a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment. The constitution is clear.

I understand that the constitution is also very clear on free speech but we restrict free speech in some circumstances (libel, yelling fire etc.). Thats the test that I've always used in evaluating any gun control legislation. If we allow and support the real ugly and reprehensible parts of free speech such as the Nazi's marching in a Jewish neighborhood then the Democrats must do the same with allowing gun owners that freedom guaranteed under the Constitution.

The Republicans have to be open to some limitations on gun control along the same lines as the limits we put on free speech.

The compromise:
  1. Forbid the mentally ill to own guns of any kind.
  2. Forbid those who have been found guilty of violence against fellow citizens from owning guns.
  3. Make illegal the purchase and ownership of armor piercing bullets.
  4. Make illegal any ammunition clips greater than 10 rounds. (Exception could be in place for gun ranges)
  5. Make laws that punish gun owners if their own registered guns are used to commit crimes.
  6. Closing the gun show loophole.
#1 and #2 are easy. No one should be against those proposals.
#3 There is no need reason for an individual citizen to own armor piercing bullets.
#4 This is the key. The Ft. Hood, Va. tech, Gabby Giffords shooter were all stopped when their ammo clips ran out and they stop to reload. We can limit the body count if they have to stop to reload a clip even if it takes only 3-5 seconds.
#5 Gun owners should already be securing their firearms so that kids, mentally ill, suicidal people don't have access to their guns. This would have prevented Shady Hook.
#6 You buy a gun at your local shop they perform a background check but buy at a gun show they don't? Thats idiotic. If there is a background check, it applies to gun shows.



What got left off the table:
  • Assault weapons ban. It was already in effect for 10 years. It didn't lower crime. It doesn't meet the first amendment Nazi's marching test. The constitution is about the rights to own guns, not how many bullets that gun can fire.
  • Mental illness legislation. A different discussion.

Last edited by BigRedChief; 12-22-2012 at 09:08 AM..
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:46 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post
Number 1 is completely insane.

What exactly is "mental illness" or "mentally ill?"

How do you forbid someone who suffers from, but hasn't been diagnosed as "mentally ill" from purchasing a gun?

What is the threshold for "mentally ill" and who defines it? Would someone who is paranoid that the government is going to take over their freedoms if they don't have their military grade guns/weapons qualify as mentally ill? It certainly does in my book. I consider that delusional thinking.

The Centers for Disease Control estimates that 25% of adults live with some type of mental illness and that 50% of the US population has a mental illness at some point in their life.

Does your proposal also mean that if someone in your household or family have a mental illness that you are prevented from having a gun as well? Remember, other members in your household will have access to the guns even if you aren't mentally ill. The Sandy Point shooter was mentally ill, his mother wasn't; he shot up the school with her guns--which would be totally legal under your proposal.

Finally, the vast majority of people with mental illness are not violent at all. In my estimation, stripping a person of their 4th Amendment Right to due process is far worse than stripping people of their 2nd Amendment Right to bear arms.
I'll say this - no way should Lanza's mother have had guns unsecured knowing better than anyone else how batshit crazy her kid was. That is utterly and completely irresponsible. At a minimum she should have kept them in a safe, which he did not have access to. That's on her 100%.
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:46 AM   #17
stevieray stevieray is offline
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typical bleeding heart liberal knee jerk reactions..

we have a gun law....it's called ..."thou shall not murder."

fortunately, the majority of people abide by this law.

all of these threads are self serving.

this tragedy happened because of horrible parenting, all too common these days...
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:47 AM   #18
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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I think it's a good step in the right direction, BRC. I don't think it goes far enough, but I'm happy to move the needle forward.
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:48 AM   #19
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickedson View Post
What about the purchasing at gun shows with no back ground check whatsoever?

That didn't make this list?
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
I was assuming this was to be the law of the land. There would be no gun show loophole. But, I'll add it to the compromise. It definitely needs to happen. It's a stupid loophole.
Good call. This absolutely must become law of the land.
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:49 AM   #20
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by kcpasco View Post
Number 1 is a no brainer
Number 2 you would have to define more.
Numbers 3 4 5 and 6 is a definite no from me.
No background checks at gun shows?

You're saying no background checks for something like 40% of gun purchases?
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:51 AM   #21
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post
Number 1 is completely insane.

What exactly is "mental illness" or "mentally ill?"

How do you forbid someone who suffers from, but hasn't been diagnosed as "mentally ill" from purchasing a gun?

What is the threshold for "mentally ill" and who defines it? Would someone who is paranoid that the government is going to take over their freedoms if they don't have their military grade guns/weapons qualify as mentally ill? It certainly does in my book. I consider that delusional thinking.

The Centers for Disease Control estimates that 25% of adults live with some type of mental illness and that 50% of the US population has a mental illness at some point in their life.

Does your proposal also mean that if someone in your household or family have a mental illness that you are prevented from having a gun as well? Remember, other members in your household will have access to the guns even if you aren't mentally ill. The Sandy Point shooter was mentally ill, his mother wasn't; he shot up the school with her guns--access to those guns would be totally legal under your proposal.

Finally, the vast majority of people with mental illness are not violent at all. In my estimation, stripping a person of their 4th Amendment Right to due process is far worse than stripping people of their 2nd Amendment Right to bear arms.
These are all extremely good questions.

Very difficult questions to answer, as well. But tough answers need to be made.

Although I don't understand the incorporation of the 4th amendment into it. Mentally ill people are being screened in BRC's proposal, not imprisoned.
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:52 AM   #22
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
No background checks at gun shows?

You're saying no background checks for something like 40% of gun purchases?

Ive been to a ton of gun shows. There is no way to know that number you ****ing moron. First, who would know how many were sold total at a show on a given day. That is not tracked. Second, no one is aware of a private sale except for the two people involved. This is the sort of bullshit that ruins your credibility. Make up any number you like.
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:56 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Ive been to a ton of gun shows. There is no way to know that number you ****ing moron. First, who would know how many were sold total at a show on a given day. That is not tracked. Second, no one is aware of a private sale except for the two people involved. This is the sort of bullshit that ruins your credibility. Make up any number you like.
I really have to agree here. Saying you can put an exact number on private gun sales is like saying you can put an exact number on how many people bummed a cigarette in the US yesterday.
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:57 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post
Number 1 is completely insane.

What exactly is "mental illness" or "mentally ill?"

How do you forbid someone who suffers from, but hasn't been diagnosed as "mentally ill" from purchasing a gun?

What is the threshold for "mentally ill" and who defines it?

The Centers for Disease Control estimates that 25% of adults live with some type of mental illness and that 50% of the US population has a mental illness at some point in their life.
Thank goodness someone said this.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:01 AM   #25
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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I really have to agree here. Saying you can put an exact number on private gun sales is like saying you can put an exact number on how many people bummed a cigarette in the US yesterday.
That's why it's called an estimation.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:02 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
No background checks at gun shows?

You're saying no background checks for something like 40% of gun purchases?
No because like others have said dealers still have to do background checks.
And I don't know how you could regulate private sales without completely destroying the 2nd amendment.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:07 AM   #27
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by kcpasco View Post
No because like others have said dealers still have to do background checks.
Only sometimes, in some places, with some guns:

Quote:
Unfortunately, only six states (CA, CO, IL, NY, OR, RI) require universal background checks on all firearm sales at gun shows. Three more states (CT, MD, PA) require background checks on all handgun sales made at gun shows. Seven other states (HI, IA, MA, MI, NJ, NC, NE) require purchasers to obtain a permit and undergo a background check before buying a handgun. Florida allows its counties to regulate gun shows by requiring background checks on all firearms purchases at these events. 33 states have taken no action whatsoever to close the Gun Show Loophole.
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Originally Posted by kcpasco View Post
And I don't know how you could regulate private sales without completely destroying the 2nd amendment.
Nonsense.

Rights can be regulated.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:13 AM   #28
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Only sometimes, in some places, with some guns:





Nonsense.

Rights can be regulated.

Wrong ****wit. That applies to private treaty sales. In ALL States sales by an FFL holder must be done with a background check
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:14 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
typical bleeding heart liberal knee jerk reactions..

we have a gun law....it's called ..."thou shall not murder."

fortunately, the majority of people abide by this law.

all of these threads are self serving.

this tragedy happened because of horrible parenting, all too common these days...
Horseshit.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:16 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Rights can be regulated.
No they can't be, privileges can be regulated or revoked, rights can not. You are missing the point of what a right is.
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