BRC's propsed gun control legislation

[BigRedChief]

I'm a known Obama supporter on here. I also have a long standing belief that gun control legislation usually doesn't work and besides...and this is not a small thing in the discussion..........the constitution is clear, the right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed. Thats why even though I don't own guns or hunt that I've been a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment. The constitution is clear.

I understand that the constitution is also very clear on free speech but we restrict free speech in some circumstances (libel, yelling fire etc.). Thats the test that I've always used in evaluating any gun control legislation. If we allow and support the real ugly and reprehensible parts of free speech such as the Nazi's marching in a Jewish neighborhood then the Democrats must do the same with allowing gun owners that freedom guaranteed under the Constitution.

The Republicans have to be open to some limitations on gun control along the same lines as the limits we put on free speech.

The compromise:

1. Forbid the mentally ill to own guns of any kind.
2. Forbid those who have been found guilty of violence against fellow citizens from owning guns.
3. Make illegal the purchase and ownership of armor piercing bullets.
4. Make illegal any ammunition clips greater than 10 rounds. (Exception could be in place for gun ranges)
5. Make laws that punish gun owners if their own registered guns are used to commit crimes.
6. Closing the gun show loophole.

#1 and #2 are easy. No one should be against those proposals.
#3 There is no need reason for an individual citizen to own armor piercing bullets.
#4 This is the key. The Ft. Hood, Va. tech, Gabby Giffords shooter were all stopped when their ammo clips ran out and they stop to reload. We can limit the body count if they have to stop to reload a clip even if it takes only 3-5 seconds.
#5 Gun owners should already be securing their firearms so that kids, mentally ill, suicidal people don't have access to their guns. This would have prevented Shady Hook.
#6 You buy a gun at your local shop they perform a background check but buy at a gun show they don't? Thats idiotic. If there is a background check, it applies to gun shows.



What got left off the table:

• Assault weapons ban. It was already in effect for 10 years. It didn't lower crime. It doesn't meet the first amendment Nazi's marching test. The constitution is about the rights to own guns, not how many bullets that gun can fire.
• Mental illness legislation. A different discussion.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I think it's a good step in the right direction, BRC. I don't think it goes far enough, but I'm happy to move the needle forward.

I know. It's a compromise. Thats how things get done. A novel concept these days in Washington. But neither side will get their way on a national level in the foreseeable future. There has to be compromise.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by frazod

I'll say this - no way should Lanza's mother have had guns unsecured knowing better than anyone else how batshit crazy her kid was. That is utterly and completely irresponsible. At a minimum she should have kept them in a safe, which he did not have access to. That's on her 100%.

This!

I have no issue with the mother or anyone else owing these guns. It was her decision to not keep those guns away from her son that she knew was mentally unstable.

Would any responsible parent leave their gun out where their 7 year old child could find it and possibly play with it? Thats just a common sense bar that has to be met by gun owners.

[Bo's Pelini]

"Rights can be regulated"


Its sad some people request tyranny. How about instead of asking more from the government we ask more from society?

[A Salt Weapon]

How about the parents that left a firearm accessible to their 12yr old so she could shoot an intruder intent on raping and possibly murdering her. I'm glad that gun wasn't locked up.
Posted via Mobile Device

[mlyonsd]

Which of these 6 bullet points would have prevented the mass murder in CN?

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by notorious

But, to help gun haters "feel" better, I am willing to compromise what I listed.

I totally agree that the public's recent decision to revisit gun laws is a reaction to the Sandy Hook tragedy. "Something" has to be done to make us feel safe sending our kids to school. The public needs to examine the reasons and not just start yelling ban guns.

There are bad people who will do bad things. Controlling access to guns will never make us safer. Giving guns to everyone will not make us safer.

Originally Posted by notorious

How would you control magazine capacity? If they are going to be at the range, you can bet your ass they will end up in criminal hands.

No clue on the logistics of how to regulate. and of course there will be an underground market. If we make it difficult, it should help lessen the events of this type. But the facts are that these mass killings are ended sooner than later when the shooter reloads.

[Munson]

1. Forbid the mentally ill to own guns of any kind.

No. Like others have said, "mental illness" is pretty vague, and could easily be abused by politicians, gov't officials, and law enforcement. Are you a member of the Tea Party? You must be mentally ill. Do you have more than 100 rounds of ammunition? You must be mentally ill. Do you openly oppose the president and his policies? You must be mentally ill. No guns for you.

2. Forbid those who have been found guilty of violence against fellow citizens from owning guns.

We already have laws for that.

3. Make illegal the purchase and ownership of armor piercing bullets.

No. Again, its how you define what an armor piercing bullet is.

Bullet weight?
Shape?
What type of core(steel, lead, something else)?
Muzzle velocity
Kinetic force at a certain distance
Piercing body armor(soft armor or hard armor plates)?
Piercing vehicle armor?

4. Make illegal any ammunition clips greater than 10 rounds. (Exception could be in place for gun ranges)

Absolutely not. And don't give me the "you don't need magazines that hold more than 10 rounds" argument. With all due respect, who are you to say what I need or don't need? Last time I checked, its called the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs.

5. Make laws that punish gun owners if their own registered guns are used to commit crimes.

No. If somebody steals your car and commits a crime with it, do you go to jail? We already have laws about using a gun in a crime.

6. Closing the gun show loophole.

Doesn't exist.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by mlyonsd

Which of these 6 bullet points would have prevented the mass murder in CN?

Thats not the point. I'm not on board with changing gun laws because of a lunatic did something horrible.

But, its obvious the public wants "something" done. I've seen polls of NRA members that have a majority that want some type of action. This is going to happen. Its just deciding what "is going to happen". But, as far as your original question goes.......

• The law not allowing mentally unstable people to own weapons.
• Punishment for legal law abiding citizens not securing their weapons from access to children and the mentally unstable.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Munson

1. Forbid the mentally ill to own guns of any kind.

No. Like others have said, "mental illness" is pretty vague, and could easily be abused by politicians, gov't officials, and law enforcement. Are you a member of the Tea Party? You must be mentally ill. Do you have more than 100 rounds of ammunition? You must be mentally ill. Do you openly oppose the president and his policies? You must be mentally ill.

4. Make illegal any ammunition clips greater than 10 rounds. (Exception could be in place for gun ranges)

Absolutely not. And don't give me the "you don't need magazines that hold more than 10 rounds" argument. With all due respect, who are you to say what I need or don't need? Last time I checked, its called the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs.

5. Make laws that punish gun owners if their own registered guns are used to commit crimes.

No. If somebody steals your car and commits a crime with it, do you go to jail? We already have laws about using a gun in a crime.

#1
Already defined as per my opinion. Let the Doctors and courts decide. Eventually it will go to the SCOTUS

#4 Please show me where in the Bill of Rights is guarantees you the right to unlimited rounds in a clip of ammunition.

#5 Of course not. You discover your guns stolen, report them and you are not held responsible.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by A Salt Weapon

How about the parents that left a firearm accessible to their 12yr old so she could shoot an intruder intent on raping and possibly murdering her. I'm glad that gun wasn't locked up.
Posted via Mobile Device

So, you are advocating leaving guns in the house readily available to children?

[frazod]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

#4 Please show me where in the Bill of Rights is guarantees you the right to unlimited rounds in a clip of ammunition.

Show me where it doesn't. There's probably no mention of jet fighters or penicillin, either.

AND FOR ****'S SAKE IT'S "MAGAZINES" NOT "CLIPS"

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by frazod

Show me where it doesn't. There's probably no mention of jet fighters or penicillin, either.

AND FOR ****'S SAKE IT'S "MAGAZINES" NOT "CLIPS"

thats my point. There ain't shit in there about how many guns or types or how much ammo you can own. Why can't we own bazookas, air to air missiles, tanks etc. Nor is there anything in there about restricting free speech. But, we do that to in our modern society.

As far as magazines or clips. Pardon my ignorance on the terminology.

[frazod]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

So, you are advocating leaving guns in the house readily available to children?

If they aren't batshit crazy AND if they have been trained in the gun's use and safety techniques. I first fired a gun at age 7. Within a couple of years I regularly carried a rifle and roamed the fields alone and unsupervised. I was around loaded guns all my life growing up. My dad kept a loaded .357 in a holster on a gun belt hanging over the back of his chair in the gun room.

Number of grade-school age friends killed - zero.

[Fish]

Also, we're going to change the first amendment....

You can still say whatever you want to say. You're just limited to doing it in 10 words or less.

[frazod]

This is a clip. It only partially houses the rounds and is basically a feeding guide.



This is a magazine. The rounds are completely contained.