The real meaning of Xmas. Slaughter of children

[Dave Lane]

Holy shit if Obama had said this they would be lining up to tar and feather him, Como would have a deport him thread and everything!@@!!1!!

[Psyko Tek]

wild thread was gonna post on the big bang theory
then suddenly I see god can be in schools, because you can't keep god out because he is omnipotent


etc


but have a stupid ass scientific question

the big bang happened in the center of the universe...
how can we see light from it out here?
did we travel faster then ligh tot get here
or I am I wrong on the direction the telescopes are pointed?


And I an a science supporter..
the 6th beer asked this question

[Dave Lane]

Originally Posted by Psyko Tek

wild thread was gonna post on the big bang theory
then suddenly I see god can be in schools, because you can't keep god out because he is omnipotent


etc


but have a stupid ass scientific question

the big bang happened in the center of the universe...
how can we see light from it out here?
did we travel faster then ligh tot get here
or I am I wrong on the direction the telescopes are pointed?


And I an a science supporter..
the 6th beer asked this question

Since I think your 6th beer is serious here's a good video . We once were at the center and blew out from the center. This is a really good 6 mins.

[Mrs. Loopner]

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

The universe has always existed. See the equation E=MC2. Take out of it this, mass can be 3 different things. Energy is what the universe was before it formed. There are undoubtedly 100's of other universes, probably billions.

Yes but before the big bang there was something. I prefer to believe there was energy and it coalesced into the matter that exists today. Makes no real difference as we KNOW the big bang happened what was before that is just interesting speculation.

Hold it. You are trying to take the easy way out in explaining what was before the Big Bang.

You can’t just say, “it makes no real difference… what was before… it’s just interesting speculation”. If you really believe that then you wouldn’t object so strongly that God had something to do with it and created our Universe.

You also cannot say, “The universe has always existed” and in the same breath say, “Energy is what the universe was before it was formed.” It either existed or it didn’t. Then you throw the “See E=mc2…” equation as ‘proof’ in an effort to glaze it over.
You haven’t even mentioned time, spacetime (3rd and 4th dimensions), gravity, etc.
Explain, time – it was either created or has always existed. If there has always been a Universe then there must always have been time, how they get here?

The equation is Energy = Mass times the Speed of Light (186,000 per second) squared. The Speed of Light is not mass. “Mass can be 3 different things” (maybe I’m not understanding what you’re trying to say here but that makes no sense to me so please explain, or not).

And while I'm on the subject of the speed of light – black holes screw with the speed of light in that it can’t escape the event horizon (radius of a black hole). And that is one of the problems with the Big Bang theory.

You cannot place an age on the universe (accepted to be 13.7 – 14.5 billion by scientists) that has always existed. Nor can you say, "there are 100’s or billions more universes", while saying there was just energy before and still believe the Big Bang created our Universe.
If you had mentioned String Theory and that it may be the catalyst for the Big Bang that would be more reasonable than what written.

[Mrs. Loopner]

[quote=Dave Lane;9242638]Since I think your 6th beer is serious here's a good video . We once were at the center and blew out from the center. This is a really good 6 mins.

The video is excellent and easily understandable, thanks for posting it.
But it is keen to avoid addressing the problem that ‘nothing’ existed before the Big Bang which violates the first law of thermodynamics, “energy cannot be created nor destroyed” which supports E=MC2, as you mentioned earlier. It also means, you cannot create something from nothing or nothingness.

Suggesting the above idea is more plausible than God spoke our universe into existence with the Big Bang is anemic and trite. The eternal existence of God is just as possible, plausible and bears as much weight as saying there was nothing and from nothing energy was created and from that the universe happened with the Big Bang, then telling us we just have to accept it.

If we just accept the video, and the universe came from ‘nothing’ then there is ‘nothing’ to keep us from saying, God was the nothingness from which our universe was created via the Big Bang and just accept it.

Last point, I have to take issue with your comment that we "were at the center". If what the video says is true, it would be impossible to be at the center of nothing.

[scott free]

All of this heavy duty science talk gives Stephen Hawking throbbing wood.

[Mrs. Loopner]

Originally Posted by scott free

All of this heavy duty science talk gives Stephen Hawking throbbing wood.

And there you have it, proof something can come from nothing!!

[Dave Lane]

If you notice e=mc2 means matter can exist in 3 states. E is energy, we are just now starting to measure dark energy, so there is undetectable dark energy that permeates this universe. I believe this energy has always been. Sometimes they may well be a large build up of this invisible energy on a scale we can't imagine that can burst forth a new universe. Its far more likely than the ideas put forth in any religious book. Precisely because it can happen, where other claims are so preposterous, I feel its likely it may have.

The idea that a god of any bible would go through the contortions of a big bang just so 13.7 billion years later humans could evolve on a speck of nothing is mind bottling. I can't understand for the life of me how people fail to see the absolute conceit of such a notion. It truly is amazing.

[stevieray]

...the universe has always existed, yet it has no purpose.
..energy has always existed, yet God doesn't.
...this energy is invisible, yet God isn't.
..we're the center, but we are a speck of nothing.



...comedy gold.

[mlyonsd]

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

If you notice e=mc2 means matter can exist in 3 states. E is energy, we are just now starting to measure dark energy, so there is undetectable dark energy that permeates this universe. I believe this energy has always been. Sometimes they may well be a large build up of this invisible energy on a scale we can't imagine that can burst forth a new universe. Its far more likely than the ideas put forth in any religious book. Precisely because it can happen, where other claims are so preposterous, I feel its likely it may have.

The idea that a god of any bible would go through the contortions of a big bang just so 13.7 billion years later humans could evolve on a speck of nothing is mind bottling. I can't understand for the life of me how people fail to see the absolute conceit of such a notion. It truly is amazing.

And yet we're fascinated with stem cell research.

13.7 billion years might be 2 days to another life form.

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by mlyonsd

13.7 billion years might be 2 days

i've mentioned this in the past....it's perspective....looking out, I understand why we could see enormous, but looking in, the biosphere in six days appears plausible.

it's like traveling so fast, that time slows down...like a rim on a car appearing to move slow at 60 mph...

or being in the center of a merry go round, as opposed to the outer edge.....both rotating at the same speed, yet the outer feels faster.

[KChiefer]

Originally Posted by stevieray

...the universe has always existed, yet it has no purpose.
..energy has always existed, yet God doesn't.
...this energy is invisible, yet God isn't.
..we're the center, but we are a speck of nothing.



...comedy gold.

We are not the center of the universe. We ARE the center of OUR Observable Universe which is everything that has had time for it's light(radiation) to reach us to observe. The Andromeda Galaxy is also at the center of it's own observable universe.

Some programs I've watched recently that explain the history of what science has discovered and where it has led. While none of these purely refute the existence of a Creator, they do explain things we now understand that were previously only explained as the work of God.

BBC The Secret Life of Chaos
-My favorite recent watch, discussing how organization can come from seeming randomness, and how something seemingly organized can still give unpredictable results. The very end makes a point to say that if a Creator made our universe, it's possible they set initial conditions and now is just watching it happen, as in a creator has had no active role in what happens now. Really a great program with visually stunning examples of what at a glance is infinity complex but governed by simple mathematical, biological rules.


BBC How Big is the Universe
BBC How Small is the Universe
BBC Everything and Nothing (2 part series)
-Histories and current states of our ability to observe the Universe.


Through The Worm Hole: Did We Create God?
-The main take away from this is that humans have a natural tendency to impose the will of God onto things for which we have yet to find an answer.

Stephen Hawking's Grand Design: Did God Create the Universe?
- I really can't remember much of what is said, sooo...

Most of these can be found online whether steaming or downloaded. Many have also been picked up by our own Science Networks.

[Mrs. Loopner]

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

If you notice e=mc2 means matter can exist in 3 states. E is energy, we are just now starting to measure dark energy, so there is undetectable dark energy that permeates this universe. I believe this energy has always been. Sometimes they may well be a large build up of this invisible energy on a scale we can't imagine that can burst forth a new universe. Its far more likely than the ideas put forth in any religious book. Precisely because it can happen, where other claims are so preposterous, I feel its likely it may have.

The idea that a god of any bible would go through the contortions of a big bang just so 13.7 billion years later humans could evolve on a speck of nothing is mind bottling. I can't understand for the life of me how people fail to see the absolute conceit of such a notion. It truly is amazing.

In classical chemistry there are 3 classifications of energy – Transitional, Chemical and Vibrational. I’m figuring that’s what you are referring to and that’s what threw me.

In physics, energy falls into two sets: Potential (stored or resting) and Kinetic. Potential pertains to any stored energy that can be used for future use. Kinetic is energy used to displace or move an object.

From that, we can say there are several different types that fall into one of the two sets. Some examples are:
Radiant, Sound, Chemical, Thermal, Mechanical, Gravitational, Nuclear, etc.

When you mention dark energy I’m thinking, dark matter and I would ask you, since dark matter does not absorb light nor emits radiation then it would not follow E=mc2, correct? I think I do understand where you’re going with it but let me see. You’re saying that the ‘nothingness’ that some scientists say existed before the Big Bang is actually dark matter? I can follow that but dark matter’s existence hinges upon the gravitational effect on visible matter doesn’t it? And, if there was no visible matter before the Big bang then it doesn't follow although I don't disagree, I think that sounds more reasonable than saying there was real nothingness period.
I’m just trying to follow your thought process.

To address your last few remarks though, a religious book is a religious book as is a science book is a science book they are no different, one from the other, or one to the other. No difference at all. They are words written by humans.

If you truly believe that energy ( in whatever form) has always existed, cannot be created or destroyed, exists in everything and all things then you’ve just described God my friend. The claim’s exactly the same and no more preposterous than your belief that dark matter has eternal existence from which the Big Bang happened. We are actually a lot closer to agreeing and believing the same thing, and that will make you more uncomfortable than me.

For you to purport God’s contortions (and we won’t visit the 13.7 billion years right now. That’s for another time) happened and eventually evolved humans on a speck of nothing is more what you believe than I. Just change “god” to ‘energy” and it is just as mind boggling and outrageous an event. Energy and God, enigmas. Imagine that.

The faith/science you have that a chair will hold you when you sit down is the same faith/science I have in God only mine will never fail and yes, He truly is amazing!

[Dave Lane]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Loopner

In classical chemistry there are 3 classifications of energy – Transitional, Chemical and Vibrational. I’m figuring that’s what you are referring to and that’s what threw me.

In physics, energy falls into two sets: Potential (stored or resting) and Kinetic. Potential pertains to any stored energy that can be used for future use. Kinetic is energy used to displace or move an object.

From that, we can say there are several different types that fall into one of the two sets. Some examples are:
Radiant, Sound, Chemical, Thermal, Mechanical, Gravitational, Nuclear, etc.

When you mention dark energy I’m thinking, dark matter and I would ask you, since dark matter does not absorb light nor emits radiation then it would not follow E=mc2, correct? I think I do understand where you’re going with it but let me see. You’re saying that the ‘nothingness’ that some scientists say existed before the Big Bang is actually dark matter? I can follow that but dark matter’s existence hinges upon the gravitational effect on visible matter doesn’t it? And, if there was no visible matter before the Big bang then it doesn't follow although I don't disagree, I think that sounds more reasonable than saying there was real nothingness period.
I’m just trying to follow your thought process.

To address your last few remarks though, a religious book is a religious book as is a science book is a science book they are no different, one from the other, or one to the other. No difference at all. They are words written by humans.

If you truly believe that energy ( in whatever form) has always existed, cannot be created or destroyed, exists in everything and all things then you’ve just described God my friend. The claim’s exactly the same and no more preposterous than your belief that dark matter has eternal existence from which the Big Bang happened. We are actually a lot closer to agreeing and believing the same thing, and that will make you more uncomfortable than me.

For you to purport God’s contortions (and we won’t visit the 13.7 billion years right now. That’s for another time) happened and eventually evolved humans on a speck of nothing is more what you believe than I. Just change “god” to ‘energy” and it is just as mind boggling and outrageous an event. Energy and God, enigmas. Imagine that.

The faith/science you have that a chair will hold you when you sit down is the same faith/science I have in God only mine will never fail and yes, He truly is amazing!

Good for you now go troll another thread. Your mind is closed.

[RNR]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Loopner

In classical chemistry there are 3 classifications of energy – Transitional, Chemical and Vibrational. I’m figuring that’s what you are referring to and that’s what threw me.

In physics, energy falls into two sets: Potential (stored or resting) and Kinetic. Potential pertains to any stored energy that can be used for future use. Kinetic is energy used to displace or move an object.

From that, we can say there are several different types that fall into one of the two sets. Some examples are:
Radiant, Sound, Chemical, Thermal, Mechanical, Gravitational, Nuclear, etc.

When you mention dark energy I’m thinking, dark matter and I would ask you, since dark matter does not absorb light nor emits radiation then it would not follow E=mc2, correct? I think I do understand where you’re going with it but let me see. You’re saying that the ‘nothingness’ that some scientists say existed before the Big Bang is actually dark matter? I can follow that but dark matter’s existence hinges upon the gravitational effect on visible matter doesn’t it? And, if there was no visible matter before the Big bang then it doesn't follow although I don't disagree, I think that sounds more reasonable than saying there was real nothingness period.
I’m just trying to follow your thought process.

To address your last few remarks though, a religious book is a religious book as is a science book is a science book they are no different, one from the other, or one to the other. No difference at all. They are words written by humans.

If you truly believe that energy ( in whatever form) has always existed, cannot be created or destroyed, exists in everything and all things then you’ve just described God my friend. The claim’s exactly the same and no more preposterous than your belief that dark matter has eternal existence from which the Big Bang happened. We are actually a lot closer to agreeing and believing the same thing, and that will make you more uncomfortable than me.

For you to purport God’s contortions (and we won’t visit the 13.7 billion years right now. That’s for another time) happened and eventually evolved humans on a speck of nothing is more what you believe than I. Just change “god” to ‘energy” and it is just as mind boggling and outrageous an event. Energy and God, enigmas. Imagine that.

The faith/science you have that a chair will hold you when you sit down is the same faith/science I have in God only mine will never fail and yes, He truly is amazing!

So once again here we are. You boldly throw up an argument for creationism. One question why don't you defend your personal beliefs? Please lay out the factual reasons why your personal beliefs should be recognized and given special consideration. I mean surely you can provide evidence of how you know there is a God and know his thoughts. Go ahead and list this amazing information proving your beliefs are the beliefs we should all follow...I will wait. Before you try keep in mind many of the greatest theological apologists have ducked this in the arena of discussion. Dinesh D’Souza, Frank Turek, William Lane Craig, Douglas Wilson, Tim Rutten to name a few all have taken the creation route due to their personal beliefs being indefensible less the disclaimer of faith. However it would be unfair for me to not give you the opportunity to state your case providing information unavailable to me, and for that matter the rest of the world~

[Mrs. Loopner]

Originally Posted by stevieray

i've mentioned this in the past....it's perspective....looking out, I understand why we could see enormous, but looking in, the biosphere in six days appears plausible.

it's like traveling so fast, that time slows down...like a rim on a car appearing to move slow at 60 mph...

or being in the center of a merry go round, as opposed to the outer edge.....both rotating at the same speed, yet the outer feels faster.

Part of the reason scientists say the universe has to be older than 6,000 years is because in order for light to reach from one end of the universe to the other it would have to be 13+ billion years old.
the Big Bang also has a light-travel-time problem though in that light wasn't supposedly emitted until 300,000 yrs after the Big Bang and space already had a uniform temperature over ten times large than light could have traveled.