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Old 12-28-2012, 01:00 PM  
OnTheWarpath58 OnTheWarpath58 is offline
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An addition to the Pioli resume

I was bored, thought I'd run some numbers - hadn't done any Chiefs-related homework in a while.

Anywho, discussion in another thread got me to thinking about the "talent level" on this team. People seem to be getting back in the habit of blaming specifically the QB and coaching, while claiming that this roster, and those before it are loaded with talent.

For a team that supposedly has talent, all they've done is beat up on the weak sisters of the poor over the last 4 years of the Pioli Nightmare.

23 wins in 4 years.

Those 23 wins came against teams with a collective 152-214 record and a .415 winning percentage. You can thank Green Bay dropping a metric ****ton of passes back in December of 2011 - take them out of the equation, and you're looking at a .375 winning percentage.

1 win in 4 years against a 10-win or better team.

3 wins in 4 years against a 9-win or better team.

20 wins against 8-8 teams or worse - 11 of those wins against teams with 6 wins or less.

So the "Executive of the Decade" was responsible for 5.75 wins per year, and we should consider ourselves lucky we "earned" that many.

In this era of parity in the NFL, a team with this much "talent" would be winning more than 5.75 games per year. Even without a QB. Even without a QB and HC.

Folks say that Mark Sanchez is a POS, and that we have more talent than the Jets. The same Jets that have won 34 games in the last 4 years. 11 more than the Chiefs.

Buffalo has shit for talent, plays in a brutal division, and has 2 fewer wins over the same time period.

Cleveland is hot garbage, and they've won 4 fewer games over the past 4 years. 1 game a year difference.

Jacksonville has 1 fewer win.

Miami has 4 MORE wins.

Oakland has 2 MORE wins.


The overwhelming majority of this board would claim that we have more "talent" than every one of the above teams.

The overwhelming majority of this board would claim that our QB play has been at least as good as the above teams, and in most cases, better.

The overwhelming majority of this board would claim that our coaching has been at least as good as the above teams, and in most cases, better.


The overwhelming majority of this board would be dead wrong on one of those three assessments. One of these things is not like the other.

Folks, it's time to wake up and realize that QB and HC are just part of the problem.

I see a lot of bad teams with bad QB's and bad HC's that have won as much or more than we have.

Sadly, the bottom line is that there isn't nearly as much "talent" on this roster that you think there is - and that we're a lot closer to the Cleveland's, Buffalo's and Jacksonville's of the NFL than you want to admit.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:37 PM   #16
JASONSAUTO JASONSAUTO is offline
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Originally Posted by BossChief View Post
The bills have 21 wins the last 4 years
The Jaguars have 22
The Raiders have 25
The Chiefs have 23

Thats just sad.
and the difference between a couple wins?

Luck.

All those teams are going to suck until they find a qb.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:39 PM   #17
JASONSAUTO JASONSAUTO is offline
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Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 View Post
Jason, you're missing the point.

All these teams have bad QB play.

All of these teams suffer from poor coaching/leadership.

But posters here seem to think we have a ton of talent that these other teams don't have - yet they've all won as many games (or more) than we have in the past 4 years.
again sometimes that's just the way the ball bounces. Luck.


We are all in the same boat.

We are a talented team. They all gave talented players
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:40 PM   #18
JASONSAUTO JASONSAUTO is offline
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Have talented players.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:48 PM   #19
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So, we are a talented team, just like Jax, Oakland, and Buffalo?

I agree that there is in general a sentiment that we are a talented team, but if we are now agreeing that all the teams in the NFL are "talented" than I guess that doesn't leave us very well off.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:48 PM   #20
Count Zarth Count Zarth is offline
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Talent level on this team, outside the Herm players, is about average.

That's not nearly good enough when your QB is utter shit.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:50 PM   #21
OnTheWarpath58 OnTheWarpath58 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning View Post
Talent level on this team, outside the Herm players, is about average.

That's not nearly good enough when your QB is utter shit.
And the talent level on teams such as Buffalo, Oakland, Jacksonville, etc is well below average, their QB play is utter shit, yet they've won as many games as we have over the past 4 years.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:56 PM   #22
Count Zarth Count Zarth is offline
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Sadly, I think guys like Fitzpatrick and Henne are better than Cassel. Palmer certainly is.

We're splitting hairs, though. This isn't, and never was, one of the best rosters in the NFL. It's near league average, give or take.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:01 PM   #23
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A league average team with a franchise QB can compete for a title. A league average team with Matt Cassel and Brady Quinn coached by Romeo Crennel can compete for a #1 pick.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:02 PM   #24
OnTheWarpath58 OnTheWarpath58 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning View Post
Sadly, I think guys like Fitzpatrick and Henne are better than Cassel. Palmer certainly is.

We're splitting hairs, though. This isn't, and never was, one of the best rosters in the NFL. It's near league average, give or take.
We're talking over 4 years though. Palmer covers a year and a half.

Henne covers something like 6 games. Christ, Jacksonville pulled a guy off a ****ing tractor a few years back.

So again...

KC's QB play is at least as good, if not better than these teams from 2009-2012.

KC's coaching is at least as good, of not better.

KC's so-called talent level is supposedly leaps and bounds ahead of Buffalo, Oakland, Cleveland, Miami and Jacksonville - yet it hasn't translated into more wins.

Why?

Hint: It's because this roster isn't as talented as people think it is.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:03 PM   #25
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:07 PM   #26
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:10 PM   #27
aturnis aturnis is offline
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Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 View Post
So you're saying we have a roster chock full of talented quitters.

Got it.
So the Colts QB fluctuation over the past 3 years hasn't shown you just how important the QB is?

Or now that Manning is in Denver? Or Russell Wilson? A QB fixes a LOT of bad things. How many wins can an elite QB account for?

Don't forget the QB's on his team have thrown 4 pick 6's, there has been a fumble "return" TD, and special teams has given up 2 TD's. That's 7 TD's there. Take them away, and the Chiefs are right in the middle of the package for total points given up.

THAT only accounts for a very small handful of the QB's 30 turnovers this season. Doesn't even consider how many times the offense turned the ball over inside of our own 50, 30, 20, or closer...

So sure, we could use upgrades over Lewis, Siler, TJ/Dorsey, and across from Flowers, and I hope we get them. They aren't necessary though, at least not all of them RIGHT NOW.

On offense, we need a QB, a deep threat, and upgrades/depth at TE, FB, RB and a line spot or two.

That doesn't mean that this team is devoid of talent. It has some really pieces though, which is a lot of talent for one team. Flowers, Berry, Houston, Hali, DJ, I like what I saw from a rookie Poe. Charles, Bowe, Albert. All players any team would love to have.

That isn't even including good to adequate players. The entire Oline, depth included is either good or adequate. Winston being one of my least favorite. Same goes for TE, and Breaston, DiMarco, Draughn, Gray. Also plenty of players on defense.

This team can make the playoffs next year EASY, if they pick the right QB and head coach, diagnose which positions that could be upgraded would payoff the most.

Deep threat WR, starting CB, DE's, would go a long way on this team.

Draft Geno, trader our 2nd and one of our 3rd's(comp pick) if that's what it takes to move back in order first and grab best deep threat WR(T. Williams if available in 20's). Best CB and 3-4 DEFENSE available in 3rd & 4th rounds.

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Old 12-28-2012, 02:12 PM   #28
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I would agree on only one of the original points. The Chiefs do have more talent than those other teams. The only thing that Pioli has done well is retain most of the talent he inherited. The players in general have not been coached up by our coaches. DJ is an exception. Houston is an exception.

Pioli has brought in only 2 impact players through the draft. Pioli is also responsible for bringing in the coaches, setting a dictatorial atmosphere and an inability to see that having Cassel as the only option was a huge mistake.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:16 PM   #29
OnTheWarpath58 OnTheWarpath58 is offline
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Originally Posted by whoman69 View Post
I would agree on only one of the original points. The Chiefs do have more talent than those other teams. The only thing that Pioli has done well is retain most of the talent he inherited. The players in general have not been coached up by our coaches. DJ is an exception. Houston is an exception.

Pioli has brought in only 2 impact players through the draft. Pioli is also responsible for bringing in the coaches, setting a dictatorial atmosphere and an inability to see that having Cassel as the only option was a huge mistake.
So we have more talent, similar QB play and similar coaching - yet haven't won more games.

Makes sense.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:16 PM   #30
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Do you agree or disagree with my assessment of the following players:

Albert (if healthy) is a solid LT.
Bowe is a fringe #1 WR (true #1 WR are rare, just like true #1 pitchers are rare in MLB--not all teams have them.)
Hali is a solid OLB.
Houston is a solid OLB.
DJ is a solid ILB.
Flowers is a solid corner.
Charles is a ****ing beast.

That's a pretty talented core, IMO, and those positions are pretty tough to fill. A competent GM could supplement this talent pretty quickly, IMO, but it all hinges on first getting the QB.
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