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Old 12-28-2012, 02:00 PM  
OnTheWarpath58 OnTheWarpath58 is offline
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An addition to the Pioli resume

I was bored, thought I'd run some numbers - hadn't done any Chiefs-related homework in a while.

Anywho, discussion in another thread got me to thinking about the "talent level" on this team. People seem to be getting back in the habit of blaming specifically the QB and coaching, while claiming that this roster, and those before it are loaded with talent.

For a team that supposedly has talent, all they've done is beat up on the weak sisters of the poor over the last 4 years of the Pioli Nightmare.

23 wins in 4 years.

Those 23 wins came against teams with a collective 152-214 record and a .415 winning percentage. You can thank Green Bay dropping a metric ****ton of passes back in December of 2011 - take them out of the equation, and you're looking at a .375 winning percentage.

1 win in 4 years against a 10-win or better team.

3 wins in 4 years against a 9-win or better team.

20 wins against 8-8 teams or worse - 11 of those wins against teams with 6 wins or less.

So the "Executive of the Decade" was responsible for 5.75 wins per year, and we should consider ourselves lucky we "earned" that many.

In this era of parity in the NFL, a team with this much "talent" would be winning more than 5.75 games per year. Even without a QB. Even without a QB and HC.

Folks say that Mark Sanchez is a POS, and that we have more talent than the Jets. The same Jets that have won 34 games in the last 4 years. 11 more than the Chiefs.

Buffalo has shit for talent, plays in a brutal division, and has 2 fewer wins over the same time period.

Cleveland is hot garbage, and they've won 4 fewer games over the past 4 years. 1 game a year difference.

Jacksonville has 1 fewer win.

Miami has 4 MORE wins.

Oakland has 2 MORE wins.


The overwhelming majority of this board would claim that we have more "talent" than every one of the above teams.

The overwhelming majority of this board would claim that our QB play has been at least as good as the above teams, and in most cases, better.

The overwhelming majority of this board would claim that our coaching has been at least as good as the above teams, and in most cases, better.


The overwhelming majority of this board would be dead wrong on one of those three assessments. One of these things is not like the other.

Folks, it's time to wake up and realize that QB and HC are just part of the problem.

I see a lot of bad teams with bad QB's and bad HC's that have won as much or more than we have.

Sadly, the bottom line is that there isn't nearly as much "talent" on this roster that you think there is - and that we're a lot closer to the Cleveland's, Buffalo's and Jacksonville's of the NFL than you want to admit.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:13 PM   #76
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Also curious if of the probowl numbers for those teams. Are any of those teams sending 5 to the pro bowl?
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Alex Smith is really talented. BIG arm, very mobile.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:14 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by CJizzles View Post
While this overall roster may not be as talented as some people think a potential franchise quarterback (who lives up to the #1 overall pick) improves the overall roster drastically.
No joke.

Look what RG3 and Luck have done for their teams.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:14 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by CJizzles View Post
While this overall roster may not be as talented as some people think a potential franchise quarterback (who lives up to the #1 overall pick) improves the overall roster drastically.
those aren't antlers either.
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Alex Smith is really talented. BIG arm, very mobile.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:19 PM   #79
OnTheWarpath58 OnTheWarpath58 is offline
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Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO View Post
Get us a qb and we will see who is right here
Posted via Mobile Device
Feel free to take Dave's version of Manning.

10 wins.

Whoop-dee-****ing-doo.

It's going to take a HOF QB to get this roster 10 wins?


Of course we need a QB. That's not the debate here.

We also need a lot of good players around that core of 6-7 guys. We have to draft well and sign FA's well.

Christ, someone in another thread mentioned how good 400 some-odd yards is for McCluster, considering who is throwing him the ball.

Nevermind that guys like Rod Streater have more receiving yards.

That Rob Housler - a TE with Kolb, Skelton and Lindley throwing to him - has more yardage than Dexter.

That's just ONE example of how people rationalize the lack of talent on this roster.

It's not all the QB's fault that guys like Dexter, Moeaki, Arenas, Jackson, Hillis, Breaston, Winston, Lewis, Routt, etc aren't that good.

Yet we continue to prop them up and ignore it, because no one wants to admit this team has a few superstars pushing 30 and not much behind them.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:22 PM   #80
BigMeatballDave BigMeatballDave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 View Post
Feel free to take Dave's version of Manning.

10 wins.

Whoop-dee-****ing-doo.
Hmmm. I seem to recall the last SB winner won 9...
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:25 PM   #81
BigMeatballDave BigMeatballDave is offline
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2008 Cards almost won it with 9 win...
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:26 PM   #82
OnTheWarpath58 OnTheWarpath58 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
2008 Cards almost won it with 9 win...
And New England lost it with 18 wins.

What's your point?
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:27 PM   #83
BigMeatballDave BigMeatballDave is offline
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Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 View Post
And New England lost it with 18 wins.

What's your point?
10 wins.

Whoop-dee-****ing-doo.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:27 PM   #84
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I don't need to go group by group.

Denver has more talent than we do. Mainly because they've drafted way better than we have, and have done better in FA.

What position group of ours would you rather have than Denvers?

Running back.

I'll wait for the rest, though there really shouldn't be any if you're being honest.
Meh. I don't agree.

They are infinitely more talented than us at WR and QB. Defensively, I'd take Von over anybody but our LB group is just as good as theirs is. Flowers and Berry are considerably younger than Champ, so I'm going to take those two guys over their secondary.

Our DL is in disarray but we definitely have talent.

Offensive line? Meh Meh Meh...I can't judge a Peyton Manning offensive line. He makes his lines look WAY, WAY, WAY better than they really are...elite or not elite.

Let me put it this way.

You put John Fox and Peyton Manning in KC and Romeo Crennel and Matt Cassel in Denver...

...

I'm thinking KC 12-4
Denver 3-13

SO MAYBE Denver, outside of the QB position, has 1 more win worth of talent than KC.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:29 PM   #85
OnTheWarpath58 OnTheWarpath58 is offline
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You don't get to - or win - a Super Bowl with just a QB.

The problem is that this fanbase automatically undervalues players on other teams, while overvaluing our players.

You need a complete team - including a QB.

And even then, sometimes it's not enough.

Could Geno Smith come in next year and lead us to 8 or 9 wins?

Maybe.

But unless the new GM starts hitting on some draft picks and making some smart FA signings, 8-9 wins and the occasional one-and-done in the playoffs is the ceiling.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:30 PM   #86
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The reason we are so terrible is simple:

We have terrible, terrible, WRETCHED QB play...and terrible coaching.

Good schemes make average players look great (sometimes). We have shit, shit, SHITTY schemes...Romeo is so soft and plays such a shitty defense it's disgusting. We show ZERO aggression. Bend don't break doesn't cut it in the passing NFL.

Would you rather put a ton of heat on the QB and risk an 80 yard quick TD here and there...or just let teams consistently pick up 3rd and 6 all game long because you're soft as shit and instead of an occasional quick hitter they go on 5 long scoring drives that kill the defense in the process?

We are a competent staff and QB away from being a good football team.

I've been very complimentary of Denver all season long and think they have AN ELITE DEFENSE with AN ELITE SCHEME...but I do not think they have more than 1 win worth of talent than us if you take Manning out of the equation (see 2011)...and outside of the WR position I don't see them overwhelming us on any other unit.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:31 PM   #87
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An excellent, albeit devastatingly depressing analysis, Mr. OnTheWarpath58.

By all rights, however, I think we shouldn't count Dr. Evil's first year ... or, at least, we should weight it less heavily. That was, by any reasonable standard, a rebuild year for sure. The new regime inherited a sloppy, lazy, completely unmotivated gaggle of out-of-shape quitters. Although I despise Dr. Evil as much or more than anyone else on planet Earth, I'd give that to any new GM/HC group.

What is unforgivable, though, was mentioned by Mr. Rausch earlier today. It's entirely unacceptable that you are worse in year 4 of your "rebuild" than you were in year 1 ... and we are.

It goes without saying that the root problem is lack of talent. But I'd add that it's lack of talent at some of the most crucial positions. And, of course, if you don't have quality depth in the NFL, you don't have squat because there are always injuries.

Frankly, I've given up thinking about this too hard because, when I do, the reality hits me once more just how screwed we are. The hopelessness that permeates this organization is palpable and, given our current situation and the total failure to improve or even stabilize the situation, we have only Pioli to thank. So, here's to you, Dr. Evil. May you wallow in opossum urine all your days.

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Old 12-28-2012, 04:32 PM   #88
OnTheWarpath58 OnTheWarpath58 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dave View Post
10 wins.

Whoop-dee-****ing-doo.
You're making my point, dumbass.

You claimed adding a HOF QB to this team would result in 10 wins.

Who cares about 10 wins?

The goal is to win a championship.

It doesn't matter who we draft in April, he's not going to play to the level of a HOF QB.

Will he make the team better? Sure.

But until the new GM starts improving the roster around him, those 10 wins and an occasional playoff loss are going to be as good as it gets.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:32 PM   #89
BigMeatballDave BigMeatballDave is offline
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Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 View Post
You don't get to - or win - a Super Bowl with just a QB.

The problem is that this fanbase automatically undervalues players on other teams, while overvaluing our players.

You need a complete team - including a QB.

And even then, sometimes it's not enough.

Could Geno Smith come in next year and lead us to 8 or 9 wins?

Maybe.

But unless the new GM starts hitting on some draft picks and making some smart FA signings, 8-9 wins and the occasional one-and-done in the playoffs is the ceiling.
Give us names of all this great talent on GB. Other than Rodgers and Mathews.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:33 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAX View Post
An excellent, albeit devastatingly depressing analysis, Mr. OnTheWarpath58.

By all rights, however, I think we shouldn't count Dr. Evil's first year ... or, at least, we should weight it less heavily. That was, by any reasonable standard, a rebuild year for sure. The new regime inherited a sloppy, lazy, completely unmotivated gaggle of out-of-shape quitters. Although I despise Dr. Evil as much or more than anyone else on planet Earth, I'd give that to any new GM/HC group.

What is unforgivable, though, was mentioned by Mr. Rausch earlier today. It's entirely unacceptable that you are worse in year 4 of your "rebuild" than you were in year 1 ... and we are.

It goes without saying that the root problem is lack of talent. But I'd add that it's lack of talent at some of the most crucial positions. And, of course, if you don't have quality depth in the NFL, you don't have squat because there are always injuries.

Frankly, I've given up thinking about this too hard because, when I do, the reality hits me once more just how screwed we are. The hopelessness that permeates this organization is palpable and, given our current situation and the total failure to improve or even stabilize the situation, we have only Pioli to thank. So, here's to you, Dr. Evil. May you wallow in opossum urine all your days.

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Not depressing at all. In 3 days, we'll be rid of him forever.
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