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Old 01-09-2013, 09:07 AM  
Deberg_1990 Deberg_1990 is offline
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MLB Hall of Fame class 2013. Will no one get in?

Will no one make it this year?



http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/h...d-thing-010613





I already can hear it, the outcry if no player gets elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame.

“The Hall is in trouble.”

“The writers are fools.”

“SOMETHING MUST BE DONE.”

Wrong, wrong and wrong again.

Yes, there is a chance — a good chance, perhaps — that no candidate received the required 75 percent of the vote from the voting members of the Baseball Writers Association of America.

The ballots were due on New Year’s Eve. The results will be announced Wednesday at 2 p.m. ET on MLB Network. But if the voters indeed pitched a shutout, it almost certainly will be a one-year aberration, not a reflection of any larger truths.

I recognize that snark is the preferred mode of communication in a breathless social-media environment full of knee-jerk reactions and instant expertise. But all those preparing to get lathered up, take a deep breath and calm down.

Oh, I’m not downplaying the significance of what might occur. The Hall, as an institution, surely would prefer that Induction Weekend features, well, an actual inductee. Even in 1996, the last time that the BBWAA failed to elect a player, the Veterans Committee delivered Jim Bunning, Earl Weaver and two posthumous honorees, Bill Foster and Ned Hanlon.

This year, the third of the VC’s new rotating eras format, produced three pre-integration era inductees — umpire Hank O’Day, former Yankees owner Jacob Ruppert and 19th-century catcher/third baseman Deacon White. All have been dead since at least 1939.

More than 40 living Hall of Famers are expected to attend the induction ceremony, but the attendance at Cooperstown could fall below 10,000, the approximate number who attended the ’96 ceremony. It certainly won’t approach the record 75,000 that saw Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken Jr. inducted in 2007.

The Hall would not sugarcoat such an outcome and pretend it’s good for business. But Hall officials will tell you that they prefer a true election, whatever the outcome. They also will tell you that with Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and Frank Thomas coming onto the ballot next year, they’re confident that the podium will not be empty in 2014.

Heck, it’s not even a foregone conclusion that the podium will be empty this year, not when Jack Morris received 66.7 percent of the vote a year ago and Craig Biggio and Mike Piazza are first-time candidates with no known connections to performance-enhancing drugs.

If no player is elected, it will be due to the large number of intriguing first-time eligible candidates — voters can select no more than 10 players — and more significantly, the consternation over the candidates linked to PEDs.

But that consternation — the intense debate over what to do with Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and others — is not a bad thing for the Hall. If anything, it underscores the special place that Cooperstown holds in every fan’s heart.

The voters are easy to criticize. Some baseball writers who are not voters take particular delight in crushing those of us who are (a writer gets to vote after serving 10 consecutive years in the BBWAA, and full-time writers from websites are now eligible to become members.)

No problem — we’re all fair game. But the truth is, I’ve read and heard some remarkably intelligent discourses from my colleagues over the past several weeks — even ones who I strongly disagree with. The high level of debate has made me proud to be a member of the BBWAA.

One non-voter referred to those of us who struggled with our votes as “drama queens,” which I found rather amusing. Would it be better if we approached our ballots frivolously, without thought? Sorry, most of us feel a strong sense of responsibility to the process. The public hand-wringing is largely an attempt by many writers to be transparent to their readers.

Baseball is a talking sport, a sport that produces arguments like none other. The Hall arguments are especially passionate. You may agree with some, disagree with others. But the debate over the PED users, while occasionally maddening, is not a bad thing for the Hall, or for baseball. We’re talking, after all, about the game’s soul.

I fully expect the Twitter version of a banshee howl if no player is elected, but no change will need to be made to the voting procedures, particularly when we likely are looking at a one-time result. If the same thing happened in 2014 and ’15, that would be something different, an unacceptable outcome. At that point, the Hall would need to adjust.

I’m not saying the BBWAA voters are perfect — we have made mistakes, and we undoubtedly will make more. But for the most part, we’ve gotten it right over the years, and I’m confident we’ll eventually get to the right place on the PED users — whatever that place may be.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:46 PM   #31
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My top 10, in order of awesomeness, and separated by HOFers and non-HOFers.

DEFINITELY SHOULD BE IN THE HALL:
1. Barry Bonds - It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Good Guys. He was far and away the best player of his era, steroids or not. Plus, he's famous.
2. Mark McGwire - See above, except for the part about the best player.
3. Tim Raines - This one is just mind-boggling. Sixth year on ballot and he's not in? 808 stolen bases and a career .385 OBP. Amazing player.
4. Mike Piazza - Record-setting numbers for a catcher, and Hall of Fame numbers regardless of position.
5. Roger Clemens - 7 Cy Young Awards.
6. Jeff Bagwell - 162-game average: .297 AVG, .408 OBP, 34 HR, 115 RBI. Those look like Hall of Fame numbers to me.
7. Sammy Sosa - 609 homers. Enough said.

NOT QUITE:
8. Larry Walker - Great player, but probably not quite Hall of Fame-worthy.
9. Fred McGriff - The nickname Crime Dog alone should get him in the Hall, but I don't think it will.
10. Edgar Martinez - An excellent hitter but loses some credibility for being a DH and not having overwhelming power numbers.
I'd put Rafael Palmero at 8.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:53 PM   #32
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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Yep. 3000 hits. Career .281 hitter.
First ballot use to be reserved for the legends of the game. Ruth only got what 86%. Babe Ruth for crissakes.

No way Biggio is a first ballot HOF'r if thats the bar that was set before. You can make an argument that is BS and I would agree but baseball loves tradition and change moves slowly.

I think Griffey Jr and Jeter will be the only first ballot HOF'r from the the steroid era.
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I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:55 PM   #33
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First ballot use to be reserved for the legends of the game. Ruth only got what 86%. Babe Ruth for crissakes.

No way Biggio is a first ballot HOF'r if thats the bar that was set before. You can make an argument that is BS and I would agree but baseball loves tradition and change moves slowly.

I think Griffey Jr and Jeter will be the only first ballot HOF'r from the the steroid era.
I'd add Chipper Jones to that list.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:58 PM   #34
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Overall, I'm fine with this result.

Biggio is not an obvious slam-dunk first-ballot HOF'er. He's not obviously not either, its iffy whether he should be voted in on his first year. I would have, but I'm not upset about it. I'm fine with Piazza not getting in this year for similar reasons.

I'm more upset about Bagwell, he really should have been voted in, but at least he gained more ground this year. He'll eventually get in, there's never been any credible steroid accusations.

Morris is not a HOF'er, so I'm fine with him not being in. He'll eventually get in by the VC, but thats better than being voted in, which is a step up from being let in by the VC.

Clemons, Bonds, McGwire, etc should never be voted in. The rules are the rules, it is clear they lack character, integrity, and sportsmanship, and you can take all your arguments about greenies, uppers, and spitballs, and you can go stuff it. You know whats like steroids? Steroids. Thats it, there is nothing comparable. None of that other stuff dramatically changes your body, damages your health, and forces other players who otherwise wouldn't have doped, to dope to keep their jobs. Many players extended careers because of it, and that means some honest clean ballplayers somewhere toiled away in the minors and never got called up because of it. Why not think about them? I don't care if baseball was complicit, those players knew they were cheating, and they did it anyway. If its an economic decision (I'd rather make millions more than protect my legacy), fine, so be it. Its time for them to pay the price of cheating, however small that price may be, and die in baseball purgatory right beside Pete Rose. The guy who invented the freaking hall of fame was the one who came up with those character clauses, we can't throw out the Thomas Jefferson of the baseball hall of fame now because some people find it inconvenient.

The cheaters should not be honored.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:20 PM   #35
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The baseball hof is a ****ing joke with this shit. They act like you must sqeaky clean to grace their hall. There were no rules cocerning supplements and no testing but somehow its suppose to matter now. NFl is almost as bad allowing guys to be eligible until they are dead. If you didn't get in the first twenty tries you should never get in.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:41 PM   #36
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The baseball hof is a ****ing joke with this shit. They act like you must sqeaky clean to grace their hall. There were no rules cocerning supplements and no testing but somehow its suppose to matter now. NFl is almost as bad allowing guys to be eligible until they are dead. If you didn't get in the first twenty tries you should never get in.
I disagree.

Too many people today are referred to as "Great"' when in reality, they're not.

This year's class had holes everywhere and I applaud the integrity of the voters.

Now, if Chipper Jones and Derek Jeter and Griffey, Jr. aren't first ballot guys, I'll sing a different tune.

But today's voting was just fine.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:47 PM   #37
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I'm OK with the fact that no one's going in this year. If this happens occasionally it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's not as if there's a quota.

It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of "I Guess This Guy Was The Best Of The Bunch Who Happened To Retire Five Years Ago".
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:55 PM   #38
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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The Hall of Fame is a farce, anyway. I'd bet that they actually enjoy this controversy, as it actually gives people reason to talk about them.

It is absolutely preposterous that Craig Biggio was named on nearly twice as many ballots as Bonds, and I absolutely detest Barry Bonds.

Craig Biggio was a very good ballplayer who stayed around long past his usefulness to garner a few milestones. I don't see how anyone could make a credible argument that he is a HOF. He contributed fewer wins than Larry Walker over more years, and Walker isn't a HOF'er or even thought to broach the discussion.

Biggio has a huge asset for his candidacy: he doesn't look imposing. In an era where everyone is suspect, look who isn't: Maddux, Biggio, Griffey, Jeter, and a few others. That's not to say it's fair to accuse them, but to point out the hypocrisy of the witch hunt that goes on with this.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:02 PM   #39
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By proactive do you mean the union allowing testing to take place? There were rules against PEDs going back years, but they had no teeth because the union headed by Donald Fehr refused to allow testing until Congress took over.
Union/League together should of had the test screenings working properly or what is the point in having them? Just to say oh yeah we have something written but we are not going to enforce it or only when we want to. I just don't think the players should be punished when the league or union back then were basicly keeping a non working system in place for what seems like a way the league and or union could just lay it on the players.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:05 PM   #40
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The Hall of Fame is a farce, anyway. I'd bet that they actually enjoy this controversy, as it actually gives people reason to talk about them.

It is absolutely preposterous that Craig Biggio was named on nearly twice as many ballots as Bonds, and I absolutely detest Barry Bonds.

Craig Biggio was a very good ballplayer who stayed around long past his usefulness to garner a few milestones. I don't see how anyone could make a credible argument that he is a HOF. He contributed fewer wins than Larry Walker over more years, and Walker isn't a HOF'er or even thought to broach the discussion.

Biggio has a huge asset for his candidacy: he doesn't look imposing. In an era where everyone is suspect, look who isn't: Maddux, Biggio, Griffey, Jeter, and a few others. That's not to say it's fair to accuse them, but to point out the hypocrisy of the witch hunt that goes on with this.
If it is a Museum then Bonds, Clemens, Rose and so on should be in.
If it is a shrine then they need to kick some out. They can't have it both ways.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:08 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
In an era where everyone is suspect, look who isn't: Maddux, Biggio, Griffey, Jeter, and a few others. That's not to say it's fair to accuse them, but to point out the hypocrisy of the witch hunt that goes on with this.
I think Griffey Jr., Chipper and Jeter escaped the steroid label because their body type never changed and their #'s were consistent through out their careers.
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If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:10 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
The Hall of Fame is a farce, anyway. I'd bet that they actually enjoy this controversy, as it actually gives people reason to talk about them.

It is absolutely preposterous that Craig Biggio was named on nearly twice as many ballots as Bonds, and I absolutely detest Barry Bonds.

Craig Biggio was a very good ballplayer who stayed around long past his usefulness to garner a few milestones. I don't see how anyone could make a credible argument that he is a HOF. He contributed fewer wins than Larry Walker over more years, and Walker isn't a HOF'er or even thought to broach the discussion.

Biggio has a huge asset for his candidacy: he doesn't look imposing. In an era where everyone is suspect, look who isn't: Maddux, Biggio, Griffey, Jeter, and a few others. That's not to say it's fair to accuse them, but to point out the hypocrisy of the witch hunt that goes on with this.
My biggest beef with Biggio is that his hall candidacy is bolstered by the last 5-6 years of his career, when he racked up approximately 1/5 of his career hits despite hurting his team more often than not. Especially his last two seasons, when he was Jeff Francoeur-esque but kept playing every day to chase 3000 hits.

Without the 3000 hits, he isn't a Hall of Fame guy, period.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:50 PM   #43
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[quote=DaneMcCloud;9301415]I disagree.

Too many people today are referred to as "Great"' when in reality, they're not.

This year's class had holes everywhere and I applaud the integrity of the voters.

Now, if Chipper Jones and Derek Jeter and Griffey, Jr. aren't first ballot guys, I'll sing a different tune.

But toda
y's voting was just fine.[/QUOTE

Bonds and Clemons are first ballot. Baseball had a problem as a whole and now we are going to punish players with HOF denials. Its stupid and a worthless thing to do. Like still keeping Rose out. Baseball voters are so snotty.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:53 PM   #44
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Therman, Biggio is not on your list. Why?
I just don't get all the Biggio love. He was a good player, but nowhere near Hall of Fame material if you look at his numbers. .281 AVG, .363 OBP, 291 HR, 414 SB...solid, but definitely not HOF.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:55 PM   #45
Tuckdaddy Tuckdaddy is online now
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Join Date: Dec 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Roundup View Post
If it is a Museum then Bonds, Clemens, Rose and so on should be in.
If it is a shrine then they need to kick some out. They can't have it both ways.
Shut the hell up. A shrine my ass. Ruth and Cobb were known hooligans and countless others in the hall are not perfect choir boys. Its a type of sport reward not the Nobel peace prize.
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