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Old 01-11-2013, 08:13 AM  
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Is an assault weapons ban out of reach?


Gun control debate: Is an assault weapons ban out of reach?


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...094810128.html

Vice President Joe Biden announced Thursday that he will recommend new gun control measures to President Barack Obama, which include more comprehensive background checks on gun buyers and limits on the sizes of ammunition magazines. The proposal could lead to the most significant move on guns in 20 years, but one regulation highly coveted by gun control advocates was notably missing: a ban on assault weapons.

In 1994, President Bill Clinton managed to push through a sweeping ban on certain kinds of semi-automatic weapons, dealing a crushing blow to the National Rifle Association and other gun lobbyists and sparking a political backlash that helped Republicans reclaim the House and Senate for the first time in 50 years.

That ban, which expired 10 years later in 2004, is still seen as the gold standard by many gun control advocates, who have been fighting in vain to get it reinstated—with some modifications—for years. Since the horrific Dec. 14 school shooting in Newtown, Conn., that left 20 first graders dead and sparked a national conversation about the nation's gun violence problem, many advocates think they see their chance.

"It is time to pass an enforceable and effective assault weapons ban," New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, the leading gun control advocate in the nation, said in a press conference after the shooting. Democratic lawmakers on Capitol Hill quickly introduced legislation to ban the weapons in late December.

But Biden's omission of the ban from his description of his package of proposals on Thursday suggests an assault weapons ban is out of reach. (It's still possible that the ban could be included in Biden's final proposal, which will be announced Tuesday, and both Biden and Obama have voiced support for the ban on other occasions in the past few weeks.) A lot has changed since 1994—including public opinion,the legal landscape and the political might of the NRA.

"I don't think a ban on assault weapons—which is a ban on some of the most popular rifles in America—is likely to get support," said Adam Winkler, a UCLA law professor and Second Amendment expert. "The 1994 ban was widely recognized to be ineffective and to be riddled with loopholes."

Because the Clinton-era ban focused on cosmetic features of semi-automatic weapons—such as whether the weapon had bayonet slugs—manufacturers could easily remove those features and produce legal guns that were functionally identical to the banned weapons. These loopholes gave the ban a bad rap, making it ineffective on top of being politically toxic.

Another change since the 90s-era ban is that many semi-automatic weapons are more popular now, including the Bushmaster AR-15 rifle used in the Newtown shooting, which is one of the best selling rifles in America. There are at least 3 million AR-15-type rifles in America today, and semi-automatic handguns have overtaken revolvers as the most popular handguns. (Gun ownership on the whole, however, is down since 1994.)

Meanwhile, public opinion on gun control shifted as violent crime started falling in the late 90s. Starting in about 2000, fewer and fewer Americans expressed interest in stricter gun control laws: 78 percent favored stricter gun laws in 1990 compared to only 44 percent between 2010 and 2012.

The majority of Americans would not favor the banning of certain kinds of weapons altogether, such as the assault weapons ban. In 2001, 59 percent of Americans favored that ban, but now the number has dropped to 44 percent.

Some of this public opinion shift may be due to the efforts of the NRA, which has grown more powerful since its defeat in the 90s. "The NRA has about a million more members than it did before and it's got 20 more years' experience on the issue," said David Kopel, an adjunct law professor at New York University and research director at the conservative think tank the Independence Institute.

The NRA told Politico that it has gained 100,000 new members since the Newtown shooting.

Even if gun control advocates were able to pass an assault weapons ban, it would most certainly face a legal challenge.

In a recent U.S. Supreme Court decision, a majority of justices ruled that the government cannot ban an entire class of weapons (in this case, handguns) that are commonly used by law abiding gun owners for legitimate reasons, such as self defense. The government could argue that semi-automatic weapons are not commonly used for self defense, but it's still unclear how the Supreme Court might rule.

The news isn't all gloomy for the gun control side, though. If Obama is able to limit magazine sizes or expand gun background checks, it will still represent one of the biggest gun control victories in decades, and a huge departure from the near political silence on the issue over the past few years. And there's some evidence that the public would be more supportive of such a move since the shooting re-ignited the debate. A Gallup poll taken a week after the Newtown shooting found that 58 percent of Americans wanted gun laws to be stricter, a big jump from the 44 percent who said the same when polled a few months earlier.

And the proposals that Biden said he will present to the president have broad public support. A majority of Americans support requiring background checks for all gun buyers, which would happen if Congress closes the current gun show loophole that allows about 40 percent of firearms to be sold without a background check. Most people also said they would support banning ammunition magazines that carry more than 10 bullets.

Last edited by notorious; 01-11-2013 at 08:18 AM..
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:15 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by KC Dan View Post
Define "mentally ill"
I wish I personally had an exact definition for everyone. Keep in mind that the Feds have one they go by, but I couldn't find it. It must not be too outrageous if the NRA doesn't complain about it.

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Studies show that states with strong civil commitment laws — forced institutional treatment for people with severe mental illness — have up to one-third fewer guns homicides.
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The Federal Gun Control Act25 and its sequelae prohibit possession by or transfer of any firearm to a person who has been adjudicated as “mental[ly] defective or committed to a mental institution” or is an “unlawful user or addicted to any controlled substance.”
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Wall Street Journal reported, only 12 states account for the majority of mental health records in the FBI database. Mayors Against Illegal Guns, co-chaired by New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, reported that 19 states have each submitted less than 100 mental health records to the FBI database.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:22 AM   #32
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I agree. But, if something is to happen, I hope it is what is listed above.
But, there is absolutely no reason at all to believe that Congress will feel compelled to pass something. The universal check is useless feel-good nonsense and its dangerous to think you have to give something. You'll then be in a cycle of the gun control folks coming back and saying "that didn't work, we need more" after every shooting.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:30 AM   #33
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Count me against having to run every person-person gun sale through an FFL.

I wouldn't be against it if it weren't just another way for the government to keep a log of what you have at home.

I'm still recovering from the grief due to all of my guns being swept down the river.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:47 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
Count me against having to run every person-person gun sale through an FFL.

I wouldn't be against it if it weren't just another way for the government to keep a log of what you have at home.

I'm still recovering from the grief due to all of my guns being swept down the river.
As long as they stick with the current "FFL keeps the paperwork" rules, I have no problem.

It's unfortunate that a local FFL, one I might even know, had a concentrated fire right where his paperwork is/was held.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:49 AM   #35
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:51 AM   #36
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IT'S ALL FREE11!!
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:04 AM   #37
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Even if Biden doesn't "Recommend" or B.O doesn't propose an "Assault" weapons ban, you can still bet that dumbass Feinstein will.

Anybody that doesn't believe there is a strategy and games being played here to chip away at the 2nd Ammendment rights is pretty nieve.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:06 AM   #38
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Ya, I am a little worried about them trying to sneak something by. No way that is going to work, though.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:07 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
Count me against having to run every person-person gun sale through an FFL.

I wouldn't be against it if it weren't just another way for the government to keep a log of what you have at home.

I'm still recovering from the grief due to all of my guns being swept down the river.
don't you know gun owners are irresponsible gun toters in cognito
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:11 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by 2bikemike View Post
Even if Biden doesn't "Recommend" or B.O doesn't propose an "Assault" weapons ban, you can still bet that dumbass Feinstein will.

Anybody that doesn't believe there is a strategy and games being played here to chip away at the 2nd Ammendment rights is pretty nieve.
Who cares about what Feinstein proposes. The votes simply aren't there. There is not some complicated master-plan to get things passed, they don't have the votes, and the gun-control folks who thought they finally might have a chance are only now beginning to realize it.

They will never have the votes, because every state has 2 senators, and there are just too many rural states. Dems do have the capability of winning a rural senate seat here and there (and therefore, are able to control the chamber), but virtually every single one of those rural state dems are A-rated by the NRA.

Heidi Heitkamp (who just won in ND) just recently came out against the AWB and vowed to vote against it. There's no way in hell a guy like Begich, who faces a tough re-election in Alaska, is going to vote for it either. Tester from MT? Forget about it. There are no anti-gun Republicans on the other side. Hell, I don't think even Harry Reid would vote for it, he's not stupid and he came damned close to getting scalped by a raving nutbag last time.

Its really not complicated. Who knows long-term about the house, perhaps one day that might flip over to supporting new gun control laws, but the Senate is the unbreachable bulwark.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:13 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
Who cares about what Feinstein proposes. The votes simply aren't there. There is not some complicated master-plan to get things passed, they don't have the votes, and the gun-control folks who thought they finally might have a chance are only now beginning to realize it.

They will never have the votes, because every state has 2 senators, and there are just too many rural states. Dems do have the capability of winning a rural senate seat here and there (and therefore, are able to control the chamber), but virtually every single one of those rural state dems are A-rated by the NRA.

Heidi Heitkamp (who just won in ND) just recently came out against the AWB and vowed to vote against it. There's no way in hell a guy like Begich, who faces a tough re-election in Alaska, is going to vote for it either. Tester from MT? Forget about it. There are no anti-gun Republicans on the other side. Hell, I don't think even Harry Reid would vote for it, he's not stupid and he came damned close to getting scalped by a raving nutbag last time.

Its really not complicated. Who knows long-term about the house, perhaps one day that might flip over to supporting new gun control laws, but the Senate is the unbreachable bulwark.
THANK YOU.


I will add one thing: Public emotion has worn off.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:56 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
Who cares about what Feinstein proposes. The votes simply aren't there. There is not some complicated master-plan to get things passed, they don't have the votes, and the gun-control folks who thought they finally might have a chance are only now beginning to realize it.

They will never have the votes, because every state has 2 senators, and there are just too many rural states. Dems do have the capability of winning a rural senate seat here and there (and therefore, are able to control the chamber), but virtually every single one of those rural state dems are A-rated by the NRA.

Heidi Heitkamp (who just won in ND) just recently came out against the AWB and vowed to vote against it. There's no way in hell a guy like Begich, who faces a tough re-election in Alaska, is going to vote for it either. Tester from MT? Forget about it. There are no anti-gun Republicans on the other side. Hell, I don't think even Harry Reid would vote for it, he's not stupid and he came damned close to getting scalped by a raving nutbag last time.

Its really not complicated. Who knows long-term about the house, perhaps one day that might flip over to supporting new gun control laws, but the Senate is the unbreachable bulwark.
I am not saying the votes are there to affect anything Federal at this time. All I am saying is that it will be proposed. But you can bet you bottom dollar that any and all legislation that hits B.O's desk will be signed into law with out a thought. Attitudes are changing for the worse when it comes to gun control thanks to the fear mongering of the liberal media.

I also believe Individual States are more at risk from any legislation that is going to be restrictive. Trust me I live in one with a Liberal super majority.

I also think it is wrong when discussing the 2nd to think it is a Dem or Repub issue. There are those on both sides of the aisle that are for and against. I don't think Harry Reid is anti gun. He was very instrumental in getting funding and getting open a new gun range in Nevada a year or so ago. I could never see Feinstien or Boxer doing that.
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:23 PM   #43
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..

Biden: ‘No silver bullet’ against gun violence


A copy of the book Vice President Joe Biden said on Friday he was “shooting for Tuesday” to get President Barack Obama his recommendations on how to battle an epidemic of gun violence and warned “there’s no silver bullet” to stop the killing.

Biden was meeting in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building adjacent to the White House with executives from video game companies whose products have often been blamed for making players insensitive to real-world violence.

"I come to this meeting with no judgment. You all know the judgment other people have made," Biden said. (He did not elaborate, but one attendee brought a copy of the book “Grand Theft Childhood: The Surprising Truth About Violent Video Games.” A summary is here.)

The vice president has been meeting with government officials, gun-violence victims and their advocates, retailers, Hollywood executives and groups like the National Rifle Association that advocate gun rights.

He said earlier this week that he hoped to get his report—commissioned in the aftermath of the elementary school slaughter in Newtown, Conn.—to Obama on Tuesday. His advice is expected to reinforce Obama's calls for Congress to renew the assault weapons ban, toughen background checks and impose new restrictions on purchases of high-capacity ammunition magazines.

"I'm shooting for Tuesday. I hope I get it done by then,” he said on Friday, cautioning that "we know that there's no silver bullet."

Biden asked whether a “coarsening of our culture” might be partly to blame, but added: "I do not know the answer to that question."






God Bless Biden. He either has a sick sense of humor or just doesn't know any better.
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:55 PM   #44
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:14 PM   #45
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Agreed. Making a list of the "mentally ill" sounds good in theory, but I think that process could easily be abused.

What is the definition of mentally ill?

Who gets to declare someone mentally ill?

How do you get off the "mentally ill" list and regain your 2nd Amendment rights?
Yeah, that's exactly why you don't strip god given rights away from law abiding citizens. Period. ****ing with it in the first place is abuse. So, if we're going to follow this fallacy down the rabbit hole the mentally ill are a smaller, more manageable population than gun owners. Strictly from a logistical standpoint I'd the tyrannistas insist on stripping rights do it for the smaller of the two populations.

He'll, if you really want to lower gun violence just make it illegal for black men under the age of 25 to possess a firearm of any kind. We know gun violence is worst in urban areas and most often committed by black youth. I mean since we're exploring the fundamentally ****ed here let's at least get some results from this exercise.
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