The Debt Ceiling Approacheth

[Direckshun]

Now that the fiscal cliff has been turned into various cliffs over the entirety of 2013 (should be a fun year, gang...), we can turn our attention the the next one coming up.

In February, we face the sequester cliff, followed shortly by the debt ceiling.

For all intents and purposes, this thread will be used as a repository for both cliffs.

The debt ceiling, of course, has far graver consequences for both the country and the planet. Treasury adopted emergency funding measures about two weeks ago.

[Comrade Crapski]

Fiscal Cliff put in perspective:

* U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
* Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
* New debt: $1,650,000,000,000
* National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
* Recent budget cuts: $38,500,000,000

Let's now remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:

* Annual family income: $21,700
* Money the family spent: $38,200
* New debt on the credit card: $16,500
* Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
* Total budget cuts so far: $385

Got It?

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

A continuing resolution is a budget, a continuation of a previous budget anyway. It sets spending against revenue.

What you want them to do is make a new budget, rather than continue the old one.

What previous budget? You ****ing Dems haven't passed a budget in over 3 years!!!!

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by donkhater

It comes down to this:

Despite his reelection, Obama is not King of America. Neither was Bush II nor Clinton.

America is designed to have representation for taxation discussions. Districts can send a nutty 'tea party' candidate to Washington just the same as they can send someone as mentally imbalanced as Alan Grayson to serve as their representative. These people represent citizens in their districts and require certain provisions to be met before they sign on to any deal. Obama, Biden, Boehner, Reid Pelosi and McConnell go behind closed doors to design a deal and people are surprised when elected representatives won't vote for it? shocking.

Boehner is absolutely right to quit negotiating directly with Obama. Let the House go through procedures to craft a bill that can pass that chamber then send it to the Senate. Get a bill that both chambers agree on, and Obama can't get away with voting 'present' anymore.

What happens when the people vote for Democrats, but the party they voted against keeps power due solely through gerrymandering?

The GOP has no mandate to govern in the house.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by alnorth

What happens when the people vote for Democrats, but the party they voted against keeps power due solely through gerrymandering?

The GOP has no mandate to govern in the house.

Wha????

[donkhater]

Originally Posted by alnorth

What happens when the people vote for Democrats, but the party they voted against keeps power due solely through gerrymandering?

The GOP has no mandate to govern in the house.

The fact that they were voted in is their mandate

Dems keep throwing out the gerrymandering issue as if they aren't benefiting from it either. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Democratic congressmen in the Black Congressional caucus have all been voted from districts in which whites are in the minority. They spout off on TV about how diverse the party is, but no white district has a black democratic congressman.

Check out some of those district boundaries in Maryland and Illinois. Real natural those are.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by donkhater

The fact that they were voted in is their mandate

Dems keep throwing out the gerrymandering issue as if they aren't benefiting from it either. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Democratic congressmen in the Black Congressional caucus have all been voted from districts in which whites are in the minority. They spout off on TV about how diverse the party is, but no white district has a black democratic congressman.

Check out some of those district boundaries in Maryland and Illinois. Real natural those are.

It's not even that. It just get so ****ing old that whenver the Repubs are in charge of something it's always because of something other than people voting. It's ****ing sad.

[mlyonsd]

Originally Posted by petegz28

Wha????

He's saying the republicans stole the House in 2012.

I call it attempting to save the Union.

[Comrade Crapski]

Originally Posted by alnorth

What happens when the people vote for Democrats, but the party they voted against keeps power due solely through gerrymandering?

We can't help it if people are moving out of blue states in droves and moving into red states thus adding seats in congress for those states. Utah gained the most seats---- you can't seriously be trying to make a case that Utah gerrymandered districts.

[Pin Head]

Grover Norquist is a scumbag who fashions himself to be a tyrant over congress. He is a disgusting human being, much like George Soros.

[Direckshun]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-got-our-back/

Top Senate Dems to White House: If you unilaterally raise debt ceiling, we’ve got your back
Posted by Greg Sargent
on January 11, 2013 at 2:55 pm

In a move that will significantly ratchet up the brinksmanship around the debt ceiling, the four members of the Senate Democratic leadership are privately telling the White House that they will give Obama full support if he opts for a unilateral solution to the debt ceiling crisis, a senior Senate Democratic leadership aide tells me.

The four Democratic leaders — Senators Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer, Dick Durbin and Patty Murray — have privately reached agreement that continued GOP intransigence on the debt ceiling means the White House needs the space to pursue options for raising it that don’t involve Congress, and that the White House needs to know that Dems will support whatever it decides to do.

In a letter to the White House signed by the four leaders that will soon be made public — and was sent over by a source — the Democrats say:

“In the event that Republicans make good on their threat by failing to act, or by moving unilaterally to pass a debt limit extension as part of an unbalanced or unreasonable legislation, we believe you must be willing to take any lawful steps to ensure that America does not break its promise and trigger a global economic crisis — without Congressional approval, if necessary.”

That’s key, because it means top Dems will support a unilateral executive resolution to the crisis even in response to a legislative solution passed by House Republicans that they deem unacceptable — such as a bill that contains a debt ceiling hike and only spending cuts.

The top Democrats have not settled on any preference for any particular unilateral action Obama might take. They are making a “balance of power” argument to the White House, indicating that they are fully supportive of the idea that the executive branch has the power to resolve the situation as it sees fit.

Obama’s two leading choices are the 14th amendment option, under which the president claims the power to ignore the debt ceiling, and the “platinum coin” option, under which Treasury mints one and deposits in the Federal Reserve, enabling the country to continue paying its debts.

The Huffington Post’s Ryan Grim recently reported that Harry Reid, in particular, has privately raised the 14th amendment option with the president, and that Reid has not ruled out support for any other unilateral options.

Now the entire Senate Democratic leadership is uniting behind an even sharper message to the White House, the aide tells me. “If the White House concludes any given option is lawful, the Democratic leadership would support it,” the aide says.

The White House has said it doesn’t believe the 14th amendment option is legal, and has refused to engage on the question of whether it sees the coin as a viable option, saying only that there is “no Plan B” and that the onus is on Congress to raise the debt limit.

The aide tells me, however, that top Senate Democrats see the 14th amendment option as far preferable politically to the coin. “Of the available options, the coin, on its face, is politically much worse than the others,” he said. “Whatever the legal arguments for and against it, the imagery will be difficult to combat. What better symbol of out-of-control government spending could you have than a trillion dollar coin?”

In a general sense, the decision by top Dems to signal unified support for a unilateral option, should the White House opt for one, is all about maintaining leverage. The idea is to counter the continued GOP claim that new revenues are off the table by signaling clearly that Dems are prepared to activate a fallback option — meaning that in the end, Republicans are not in control of the battle’s outcome.

[chefs fan in omaha]

1 social security is in a "trust fund", so it is not part of the debate.

2. If the US govt hits the debt ceiling, they aren't allowed to borrow more money. Think instantly balanced budgets. By law, the president gets to decide who gets paid, and what 40% of the current deficit spending gets cut.

What's the problem again?

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by chefs fan in omaha

What's the problem again?

Global economic turmoil.

[notorious]

Trillion dollar coin.

Get ready for more inflation.

[go bowe]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Global economic turmoil.

yeah? who cares what happens to them furriners anyways?

a little turmoil might be good for what ails 'em...

[Comrade Crapski]

Debt Star: Federal Debt Increased By 113% Since Q2 2008, But Real GDP Increased By Only 2.6%!

According to USDebtclock.org, each taxpayer’s share of the Total Public Debt is $145,737. And each taxpayer’s liability for unfunded entitlements is $1,083,342. And growing!

The solutions other than cutting spending? 1) Creating inflation to devalue the debt (who thinks of these horrendous ideas) 2) default on the debt (didn’t work to well for Argentina) and 3) “As long as real GDP growth is equal to or faster than debt growth, there is no problem!” (I would say that 113% debt growth is higher than 2.6% real GDP growth).

http://confoundedinterest.wordpress....d-by-only-2-6/