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Old 09-12-2009, 09:50 AM  
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It's time for large # of troops to GTFO of Afghanistan.

It's a no win situation for us. Brave Americans are fighting a war in which there is no hope of winning. In this type of war there will never be a "winner". All we are doing is providing easy targets for Taliban to kill.

We can't just ignore military history there and say our effort will be different.

We went into Afganistan with 1,300 troops. When the Taliban fell we had 2.500 troops on the ground. We now have 60,000 troops on the ground and the Taliban control 40-70% of the country's territory.

The new commander in Afghanistan says he sees no evidence of a large Al-Quaeda presense in Afghanistan. That is and will always be the only reason for us to be in Afghanistan. The only reason we are there in the first place. The only reason to sacrifice American lives.

I think we should hunt down and kill every single member of Al=Quaeda, no matter where they are hiding.

We shouldn't be sacrificing American lives to nation build in Afghanistan. Yeah, they want to go back to the 12th century but why should we sacrifice American lives to keep that from happening? Not worth it.

But if we leave the Taliban will take over swiftly and then provide a safe -haven for Al-Quaeda? We don't let that happen. We put cruise millsle up their azz. We send out the drones. We use special forces to take them out.

Edited:

I'm convinced that this is the right decision for these reasons.
  • We can't nation build in Afghanistan. We shouldn't be using our resources and sacrificing our troops to help them. Thats not why we are there. $300 billion spent so far. 900 brave Americans dead. Entering it's 9th year. Just when will it be enough?
  • The argument that the Taliban and Al-Quaeda will just come back may be true but there are several problems with that. Al-Quaeda can be anywhere in the world. So we keep them out of Afghanistan, they show up in Pakistan, Somalia, where ever. I read there is only 100 Al-Quaeda operatives in Afghanistan. There are probably more than that in the USA. If we keep them out of Afghanistan. they will just go some other place. We need a 21st century approach. We won't be able to defeat Al-Quaeda with conventional weapons and strategy. We can always go back in with surgical strikes to take out prime targets and more large scale attacks to prevent Al-Quaeda from establishing bases again. We can't let 100,000 Americans become easy to reach targets for Al-Quaeda.
  • The government is corrupt beyond repair. For those who want to nation build, how can you with a totally corrupt government that the people don't trust? Nation building won't work no matter how many troops or how much money you throw at the problem with a corrupt government distrusted by the people.
  • Afghanistan has no resources. What exactly are they going to make money at, build their country with? It would be a transfer of wealth from us to them.
  • The population outside of Kabul is run by drug overlords. The majority of the population works in the poppy fields because its the only way they can feed their family. How are we going to change that? Provide jobs for those people to feed their families? A lot of those poppy field profits are going right to the Taliban. Just how are you going to end this cycle without a major infusion of American money. Again, a transfer of wealth.

Last edited by BigRedChief; 10-27-2009 at 02:55 PM..
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:54 AM   #181
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I hope you are right, but I doubt it.....

We don't have a big habit of giving up established military bases in countries we have occupied.


I'm sure the number of troops will go down, but we WILL have men there in 10 years...guaranteed.
Yup. The US Army alone has Soldiers in over 80 countries, with permanent/enduring missions in nearly 40 of them.

S.Korea, Japan, Germany, Italy, Sinai, Kosovo, Macedonia, Kuwait, Iraq, UAE, Qatar, Guam, etc...we never truly leave anywhere.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:49 AM   #182
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Well, even Republicans are changing their minds.

Congressional Republicans shifting toward leaving Afghanistan
[ and they want a faster withdrawal than Obama who wants to do it piecemeal]

Even Senator Mitch McConnell supports the administration’s withdrawal plans for Afghanistan, and he is hardly alone.

Sen. John Thune (S.D.), the third-ranking Senate Republican said the following:
Quote:
Quote:
There are folks who are war weary. It’s been a long campaign, but obviously there are a lot of us who realize we’ve invested heavily in blood and treasure there.
Even Newt Gingrich questioned whether the mission in Afghanistan was “doable” this week.
And Rick Santorum suggested faster withdrawal should be a possibility.

Quote:
One of the biggest difficulties for a continued war effort is that public support has dissipated.

Several polls have shown that the public supports a quicker withdrawal in Afghanistan and oppose intervention in Syria, particular after the latest incidents in Afghanistan.
From The Hill:
http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill...hanistan-syria
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:51 AM   #183
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Now even RepublicanCongressman, Bill Young. WoW! Never would have expected this.
He is on the House Appropriations Committee Defense Subcommittee.
IMO, Young still has a ways to go, since would keep combat force in Afghanistan—the Graveyard of Empires. Still, it's a step in the right direction.

Quote:
Young this week reversed his position on Afghanistan, a change of heart he says came in part because of Sitton's letter. In a position opposite that held by most leaders of his party, the influential Republican is now calling for U.S. troops to leave the country ahead of the 2014 deadline called for by President Barack Obama.
http://www.stripes.com/news/us/lette...-date-1.190070

Or maybe he just wants the manpower to do Iran next? Or maybe the polls are finally being heard along with the possibility of Rs losing the Presidential race. Or knows the Rs need the Paul supporters? Who knows?
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:57 AM   #184
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Obama announces the end of most combat operations in Afghanistan.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...292795864.html

WASHINGTON—President Barack Obama said he would speed up troop withdrawals from Afghanistan, signaling his intention to accelerate the end of America's longest war.


After White House meetings with Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Friday, Mr. Obama said the U.S. is moving up the schedules for pulling American forces out of Afghan villages and for ending most unilateral combat operations. That is possible, he said, thanks to what he described as recent gains by U.S. troops and progress in training Afghan security forces to take the combat lead.



President Obama and Afghanistan's Hamid Karzai said they have agreed to speed up the schedule for moving Afghanistan's security forces into the lead across the country, with U.S. troops shifting fully to a support role.




"The reason we went to war in the first place is now within reach: ensuring that al Qaeda can never again use Afghanistan to launch attacks against our country," Mr. Obama said.



"Starting this spring, our troops will have a different mission—training, advising, assisting Afghan forces," he added. "This sets the stage for the further reduction of coalition forces."

Our progress........ only 1 in 23 Afghan brigades are ready to handle their own security.........public info
http://afpak.foreignpolicy.com/posts...in_afghanistan

Gloomy report
A new report released by the U.S. Department of Defense on Monday finds that just one of the Afghan National Army's 23 brigades is capable of operating on its own without NATO support. The report's dismal findings continue with an assessment that violence is higher than it was before the 2009 surge, the Taliban have proved resilient, corruption continues to plague the central government, and Pakistan continue to provide support to the insurgency.
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If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:34 PM   #185
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Good News! With a caveat though.

Obama may be scaling back but I read drones are going to be ramped up. So we don't need troops to kill their people.

Oh, and I fully support Obama's choice of Chuck Hagel to head the Defense Dept. Soldiers and veterans groups are cheering the choice while chickenhawks and NeoCons, in both parties have trouble with him.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:04 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Good News! With a caveat though.

Obama may be scaling back but I read drones are going to be ramped up. So we don't need troops to kill their people.

Oh, and I fully support Obama's choice of Chuck Hagel to head the Defense Dept. Soldiers and veterans groups are cheering the choice while chickenhawks and NeoCons, in both parties have trouble with him.
Drones and SO are there forever regardless of who is in charge of the country.
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Originally Posted by Bufkin View Post
If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:06 PM   #187
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Drones and SO are there forever regardless of who is in charge of the country.
So.

It still not really reducing our footprint in killing people around the world. Obama is no man of peace regardless of the other side doing the same thing.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:10 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
So.

It still not really reducing our footprint in killing people around the world. Obama is no man of peace regardless of the other side doing the same thing.
the neo-con's like to label Obama as some kind of wimpy liberal etc. etc. But, anyone that is paying attention has to realize he is killing people all over the world and doing it pretty ruthlessly without attracting the public's questions of what the **** is going on?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bufkin View Post
If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:19 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Good News! With a caveat though.

Obama may be scaling back but I read drones are going to be ramped up. So we don't need troops to kill their people.

Oh, and I fully support Obama's choice of Chuck Hagel to head the Defense Dept. Soldiers and veterans groups are cheering the choice while chickenhawks and NeoCons, in both parties have trouble with him.
As long as there are boots on the ground I fully support all assets being used. I never wanted us to go to that worthless shit hole to begin with. We will leave it just how we found it, a third world under developed country filled with illiteracy and superstition. The only thing that was accomplished is a shit ton of money was made for those who profit from war~
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:23 PM   #190
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This has been in the plans for awhile. Over 500 US Military bases in Afghanistan alone -- bet that number is only mildly reduced over the interim.


How Many Afghan Bases Are There?

Military and press figures are all over the map, but base buildup outpaces the height of the Iraq War


Sept. 4, 2012




Afghanistan may turn out to be one of the great misbegotten “stimulus packages” of the modern era, a construction boom in the middle of nowhere with materials largely shipped in at enormous expense to no lasting purpose whatsoever. With the U.S. military officially drawing down its troops there, the Pentagon is now evidently reversing the process and embarking on a major deconstruction program. It’s tearing up tarmacs, shutting down outposts, and packing up some of its smaller facilities. Next year, the number of International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) coalition bases in the southwest of the country alone is scheduled to plummet from 214 to 70, according to the New York Times.

But anyone who wanted to know just what the Pentagon built in Afghanistan and what it is now tearing down won’t have an easy time of it.

At the height of the American occupation of Iraq, the United States had 505 bases there, ranging from small outposts to mega-sized air bases. Press estimates at the time, however, always put the number at about 300. Only as U.S. troops prepared to leave the country was the actual–startlingly large–total reported. Today, as the U.S. prepares for a long drawdown from Afghanistan, the true number of U.S. and coalition bases in that country is similarly murky, with official sources offering conflicting and imprecise figures. Still, the available numbers for what the Pentagon built since 2001 are nothing short of staggering.

Despite years of talk about American withdrawal, there has in fact been a long-term building boom during which the number of bases steadily expanded. In early 2010, the U.S.-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) claimed that it had nearly 400 Afghan bases. Early this year, that number had grown to 450. Today, a military spokesperson tells TomDispatch, the total tops out at around 550.

And that may only be the tip of the iceberg.

When you add in ISAF checkpoints–those small baselets used to secure roads and villages–to the already bloated number of mega-bases, forward operating bases, combat outposts, and patrol bases, the number jumps to 750. Count all foreign military installations of every type, including logistical, administrative, and support facilities, and the official count offered by ISAF Joint Command reaches a whopping 1,500 sites. Differing methods of counting probably explain at least some of this phenomenal rise over the course of this year. Still, the new figures suggest one conclusion that should startle: no matter how you tally them, Afghan bases garrisoned by U.S.-led forces far exceed the 505 American bases in Iraq at the height of that war.

Bases of Confusion

There is much confusion surrounding the number of ISAF bases in Afghanistan. Recently, the Associated Press reported that as of October 2011, according to spokesman Lieutenant Colonel David Olson, NATO was operating as many as 800 bases in Afghanistan, but has since closed 202 of them and transferred another 282 to Afghan control. As a result, the AP claims that NATO is now operating only about 400 bases, not the 550 to 1,500 bases reported to me by ISAF.

This muddled basing picture and a seeming failure by the U.S. and its international partners to keep an accurate count of their bases in the country has been a persistent feature of the Afghan conflict. Some of the discrepancies may result from terminology or from the confusion that can result from communications in any international coalition. ISAF, NATO, and the U.S. military all seem to keep different counts. Mainly, however, the incongruities appear to stem from fundamental issues of record-keeping–of, in particular, a lack of interest in chronicling just how extensively Afghanistan has been garrisoned.

In January 2010, for example, Colonel Wayne Shanks, an ISAF spokesman, told me that there were nearly 400 U.S. and coalition bases in Afghanistan, including camps, forward operating bases, and combat outposts. He assured me that he only expected that number to increase by 12 or a few more over the course of that year.

In September 2010, I contacted ISAF’s Joint Command Public Affairs Office to follow up. To my surprise, I was told that “there are approximately 350 forward operating bases with two major military installations, Bagram and Kandahar airfields.” Perplexed by the apparent loss of 50 bases instead of a gain of 12, I contacted Gary Younger, a public affairs officer with the International Security Assistance Force. “There are less than 10 NATO bases in Afghanistan,” he wrote in an October 2010 email. “There are over 250 U.S. bases in Afghanistan.”

By then, it seemed, ISAF had lost up to 150 bases and I was thoroughly confused. When I contacted the military to sort out the discrepancies and listed the numbers I had been given–from Shanks’s 400 base tally to the count of around 250 by Younger–I was handed off again and again until I ended up with Sergeant First Class Eric Brown at ISAF Joint Command’s Public Affairs Office. “The number of bases in Afghanistan is roughly 411,” Brown wrote in a November 2010 email, “which is a figure comprised of large base[s], all the way down to the Combat Out Post-level.”

If the numbers supplied by Olson to the Associated Press are to be believed, then between November 2010 and October 2011, the number of foreign military bases in Afghanistan nearly doubled, from 411 to about 800. Then, if official figures are again accurate, those numbers precipitously dropped by nearly 350 in just four months.

In February of this year, Lieutenant Lauren Rago of ISAF public affairs told me that there were only 451 ISAF bases in Afghanistan. In July, the ISAF Joint Command Press Desk informed me that the number of bases was now 550, 750, or 1,500, depending on what facilities you chose to count, while NATO’s Olson and the Associated Press put the number back down at the January 2010 figure of around 400. TomDispatch did not receive a response to a request for further clarification from a spokesman for U.S. Forces-Afghanistan before this article went to press.

Reconciling the numbers may never be possible or particularly edifying. Whatever the true current count of bases, it seems beyond question that the number has far exceeded the level reached in Iraq at the height of the conflict in that country. And while the sheer quantity of ISAF bases in Afghanistan may be shrinking, don’t think deconstruction is all that’s going on. There is still plenty of building underway.

The Continuing Base Build-Up

In 2011, it was hardly more than an empty lot: a few large metal shipping containers sitting on a bed of gravel inside a razor-wire-topped fence at Kandahar Air Field, the massive American base in southern Afghanistan. When I asked about it this spring, the military was tight-lipped, refusing to discuss plans for the facility. But construction is ongoing and sometime next year, as I’ve previously reported, that once-vacant lot is slated to be the site of a two-story concrete intelligence facility for America’s drone war. It will boast almost 7,000 square feet of offices, briefing and conference rooms, and a large “processing, exploitation, and dissemination” operations center.

The hush-hush, high-tech, super-secure facility under construction is just one of many building projects the U.S. military currently has planned or underway there. While some U.S. bases are indeed closing down or being transferred to the Afghan government, and there’s talk of combat operations slowing, as well as a plan for the withdrawal of American combat forces, the U.S. military is still preparing for a much longer haul at mega-bases like Kandahar and Bagram, a gigantic air base about 40 miles north of Kabul. “Bagram is going through a significant transition during the next year to two years,” Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Daniel Gerdes of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers’ Bagram Office told Freedom Builder, a Corps of Engineers publication, last year. “We’re transitioning … into a long-term, five-year, 10-year vision for the base.”

According to contract solicitation documents released earlier this year and examined by TomDispatch, plans are in the works for a Special Operations Forces’ Joint Operations Center at Kandahar Air Field. The 3,000-square-meter facility–slated to include offices for commanders, conference rooms, training areas, and a secure communications room–will serve as the hub for future special ops missions in southern and western Afghanistan, assumedly after the last U.S. “combat troops” leave the country at the end of 2014.

Thus far in 2012, no fewer than eight contracts have been awarded for the construction of facilities ranging from a command and control center and a dining hall to barracks and a detention center at either Kandahar or Bagram. Just one of these contracts covered seven separate Air Force projects at Bagram that are slated to be completed in 2013, including the construction of a new headquarters facility, a control room, and a maintenance facility for fighter aircraft.

Improvements and expansions are planned for other bases as well. Documents examined by TomDispatch shed light on a $10 to $25 million construction project at Camp Marmal near Mazar-e-Sharif in Balkh Province on the Uzbekistan and Tajikistan borders. Designated as a logistics hub for the north of the country, the base will see a significant expansion of its infrastructure including an increase in fuel storage capacity, new roads, an upgraded water distribution system, and close to 150 acres of space for stowing equipment and other cargo. According to David Lakin, a spokesman for U.S. Forces-Afghanistan, a contract for work on the base will be awarded by the end of the year with an expected completion date in the summer of 2013.

Base World

Even before the new figures on basing in Afghanistan were available, it was known that the U.S. military maintained a global inventory of more than 1,000 foreign bases. (By some counts, around 1,200 or more.) It’s possible that no one knows for sure. Numbers are increasing rapidly in Africa and Latin America and, as is clear from the muddled situation in Afghanistan, the U.S. military has been known to lose count of its facilities.

Of those 505 U.S. bases in Iraq, some today have been stripped clean by Iraqis, others have become ghost towns. One former prison base–Camp Bucca–became a hotel, and another former American post is now a base for some members of an Iranian “terrorist” group. It wasn’t supposed to end this way. But while a token number of U.S. troops and a highly militarized State Department contingent remain in Baghdad, the Iraqi government thwarted American dreams of keeping long-term garrisons in the center of the Middle East’s oil heartlands.

Clearly, U.S. planners are having similar dreams about the long-term garrisoning of Afghanistan. Whether the fate of those Afghan bases will be similar to Iraq’s remains unknown, but with as many as 550 of them still there–and up to 1,500 installations when you count assorted ammunition storage facilities, barracks, equipment depots, checkpoints, and training centers–it’s clear that the U.S. military and its partners are continuing to build with an eye to an enduring military presence.

Whatever the outcome, vestiges of the current base-building boom will endure and become part of America’s Afghan legacy. What that will ultimately mean in terms of blood, treasure, and possibly blowback remains to be seen.


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Old 01-12-2013, 01:24 PM   #191
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
the neo-con's like to label Obama as some kind of wimpy liberal etc. etc. But, anyone that is paying attention has to realize he is killing people all over the world and doing it pretty ruthlessly without attracting the public's questions of what the **** is going on?
Also, the claim he has gutted the military is a load too.
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:08 PM   #192
BigRedChief BigRedChief is online now
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Originally Posted by Buzz_TinBalls View Post
Whatever the outcome, vestiges of the current base-building boom will endure and become part of America’s Afghan legacy. What that will ultimately mean in terms of blood, treasure, and possibly blowback remains to be seen.http://www.theamericanconservative.c...ses-are-there/
There is no base building boom. THEY ARE CLOSING BASES.WTF are you talking about? We are getting the **** out except for SO.
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Attempted troll/humor while discussing potential child abuse
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If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:05 PM   #193
go bowe go bowe is offline
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i wouldn't leave my significant other behind in afghanistan...

nope, not me...
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:06 PM   #194
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hey brc, what's shaking in syria?

anything non-classified you can share?
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:07 PM   #195
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