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Old 01-13-2013, 06:30 PM  
Joe Seahawk Joe Seahawk is offline
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Russell Wilson

I am so proud of this dude, so close to winning his first 2 playoff games. He is going to win us a Superbowl someday. What a rollercoaster of a game today.. JFC!
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:22 PM   #31
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and I was also dead wrong about the NFC West being an easier mountain to climb than the AFC West with Manning

those two QB's...good luck

that division had a QUICK turnaround
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:23 PM   #32
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:23 PM   #33
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It's not fair to lump him in with Kaepernick, IMO. SF runs a much more simplified O than Seattle, even if the Hawks do use zone read concepts.
That might be as much a matter of time on the field as it is anything else. If Kaepernick had started out the year as the starter they might do do more with him now. Although that team is traditionally pretty risk-averse on offense. But he has, what, 8 or 9 starts in two years? You don't usually see teams open up the playbook with a guy who comes in mid-year.

I'm not a big fan of Kaepernick's, in any case, my main point is that I've seen a lot of a first year starters do this kind of thing, then come back to struggle. Newton being the most recent example that comes to mind. Still had a decent season, but more of a decline from last year than a progression. I would not be surprised to see the same for Wilson, and I'd probably temper my expectations in the near-term were I a Seahawks fan.

Hope he does well, though. Nice to see a (young - brady doesn't count) big 10 QB playing some good football for a change. And I've always found the Seahawks to be a team that's hard to dislike.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:30 PM   #34
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Seattle had a top 5 defense and running game. There's a pretty good history of rookie QB's doing well in those situations (Roethlisberger, Sanchez). Wilson had a bigger part in their success than those other guys though, no doubt.

But Luck had nothing like that, set a rookie passing record for yards, had seven 4th quarter game winning drives, and led a 2-14 team to 11-5. People are so ga-ga with the running QB's they don't realize the amazing things he did this year. I'm pretty sure Luck led the league in 4th quarter winning drives. That's amazing.
There isn't even a comparison between Wilson and what Roethlisberger and Sanchez did as rookies, even if both won games and a lot of them. Wilson was also asked to win games and did it. He threw far fewer interceptions and more touchdowns than Luck, had a higher YPA, completion percentage (by 10 points), and he didn't have the benefit of a galvanizing force like ChuckStrong behind him.

Indy was a mirage. The debate is over how much of that credit you give to Luck as opposed to aberrational factors. If you look at FBO, for example, Indy is not only the worst 11-5 team in like 20 years, they were worse than any 10-6 team over the same time span. That suggests a team that was significantly worse than their record. Their Pythagorean W-L was 7-9. They were outscored by opponents. They got destroyed by the Jets and lost at home to Jacksonville. They barely beat the Chiefs.

Keep in mind that teams that often outperform Pythag often crater the next year. The 2011 and 2012 Chiefs are examples of that.

That's not to say that Luck is not an exceptional QB prospect. However, I think his team's BABIP this year was about .410. I realize that a counterargument could be made that Luck's late-game ability helped elevate the team, and I think there is some merit to it, but if i were a gambling man I would POUND Indy's under next year.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:33 PM   #35
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
That might be as much a matter of time on the field as it is anything else. If Kaepernick had started out the year as the starter they might do do more with him now. Although that team is traditionally pretty risk-averse on offense. But he has, what, 8 or 9 starts in two years? You don't usually see teams open up the playbook with a guy who comes in mid-year.

I'm not a big fan of Kaepernick's, in any case, my main point is that I've seen a lot of a first year starters do this kind of thing, then come back to struggle. Newton being the most recent example that comes to mind. Still had a decent season, but more of a decline from last year than a progression. I would not be surprised to see the same for Wilson, and I'd probably temper my expectations in the near-term were I a Seahawks fan.

Hope he does well, though. Nice to see a (young - brady doesn't count) big 10 QB playing some good football for a change. And I've always found the Seahawks to be a team that's hard to dislike.
Kaepernick's a second year player, Wilson isn't. That means he's had an additional year to ingest NFL playbooks. I think it's fair to make a pretty straight comparison about where they are in their development, realizing that nothing is a direct 1:1 substitute for starting.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:36 PM   #36
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I'm the type of guy who uses the eye test more than stats...I make my own opinions based off of what I see.

I saw Luck make one of the worst passes I've ever seen in my life against the Chiefs overthrowing a wide open player in the end zone.

I think Luck will be great. I think this year he was average.

RUSSEL WILSON was off the charts good after about the first 1.5 months of the season. He played like the best QB in the NFL the past two months. Just sensational. He has no weaknesses, being short effects him in no way, and he can do EVERYTHING. His ability to extend the play and make big plays is second to none.

He's OMG good.

Kaepernick is another guy I was real high on, and he at least made me 50/50 yesterday when I picked the 49ers based off their pass rush and the fact I thought Kaepernick was VASTLY underrated.

Well he's underrated no longer.

But yeah, these are your new NFL QB's. Luck will be successful and elite but he's a dying breed. These new "hybrid" QB's are going to take over and take over fast.

AND I WANT ONE OF MY OWN
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:36 PM   #37
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You guys have a LOT to be hopeful about, that team has heart coming out of its earhole.

NEVER would've thought Pete freakin Carroll could assemble such a mighty, swaggering squad, were i a Seahawk fan i'd be THRILLED with my prospects.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:37 PM   #38
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I also think Wilson has dashing good looks, I love the fact he was a baseball player, and he is a great interview.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:38 PM   #39
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I take everything back I Said about him after our preseason game. I called him a "preseason hero" and 99 times out of 100 that's usually the case for rookies. Major props to him for his season and hopefully it's a long career. He's a true talent.
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Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down.

One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:40 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
There isn't even a comparison between Wilson and what Roethlisberger and Sanchez did as rookies, even if both won games and a lot of them. Wilson was also asked to win games and did it. He threw far fewer interceptions and more touchdowns than Luck, had a higher YPA, completion percentage (by 10 points), and he didn't have the benefit of a galvanizing force like ChuckStrong behind him.

Indy was a mirage. The debate is over how much of that credit you give to Luck as opposed to aberrational factors. If you look at FBO, for example, Indy is not only the worst 11-5 team in like 20 years, they were worse than any 10-6 team over the same time span. That suggests a team that was significantly worse than their record. Their Pythagorean W-L was 7-9. They were outscored by opponents. They got destroyed by the Jets and lost at home to Jacksonville. They barely beat the Chiefs.

Keep in mind that teams that often outperform Pythag often crater the next year. The 2011 and 2012 Chiefs are examples of that.

That's not to say that Luck is not an exceptional QB prospect. However, I think his team's BABIP this year was about .410. I realize that a counterargument could be made that Luck's late-game ability helped elevate the team, and I think there is some merit to it, but if i were a gambling man I would POUND Indy's under next year.


This wasn't even meant to be an amusing post and I'm chuckling.

Mother****ing 'Hamas' Jenkins.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:40 PM   #41
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Hey, we got Donald Stephenson. Nothing to feel bad about.
Wow that's depressing.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:40 PM   #42
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It just goes to show, there are good QBs later on in the draft if your personnel people can find them.
Yes and other teams will find them. We need to just pick our guy with the first pick and be happy. It would show the team confidence that you can trust him to be the guy under center. Picking later in the draft is a much riskier business when the best of the crop can be got with the #1 pick.

Damn.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:40 PM   #43
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Dare we say

Russel Wilson is maybe even better than RG3

?

He'll probably have a longer career anyway.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:43 PM   #44
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There isn't even a comparison between Wilson and what Roethlisberger and Sanchez did as rookies, even if both won games and a lot of them. Wilson was also asked to win games and did it. He threw far fewer interceptions and more touchdowns than Luck, had a higher YPA, completion percentage (by 10 points), and he didn't have the benefit of a galvanizing force like ChuckStrong behind him.

Indy was a mirage. The debate is over how much of that credit you give to Luck as opposed to aberrational factors. If you look at FBO, for example, Indy is not only the worst 11-5 team in like 20 years, they were worse than any 10-6 team over the same time span. That suggests a team that was significantly worse than their record. Their Pythagorean W-L was 7-9. They were outscored by opponents. They got destroyed by the Jets and lost at home to Jacksonville. They barely beat the Chiefs.

Keep in mind that teams that often outperform Pythag often crater the next year. The 2011 and 2012 Chiefs are examples of that.

That's not to say that Luck is not an exceptional QB prospect. However, I think his team's BABIP this year was about .410. I realize that a counterargument could be made that Luck's late-game ability helped elevate the team, and I think there is some merit to it, but if i were a gambling man I would POUND Indy's under next year.
Thank you. I am going to attach this to every thread where people keep touting Arians as a top of list head coach candidate.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:43 PM   #45
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I also think Wilson has dashing good looks, .

Wait, what?
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