The real answer to control gun violence...

[mlyonsd]

is execute anyone that commits a violent crime with one. That means holding up a convenience store, etc.

A society that embraces killing an innocent human conceived but not yet born should be able to do this, right? This of course won't stop a nut from killing kindergartners but nothing will do that.

And don't preach to me about being a civilized society because you're fighting a losing argument. If you're not intelligent enough to understand what the consequences of your actions are you're not civilized.

The answer is so simple it's scary.

[2bikemike]

That whack job in Upstate New York who beat his Grandma to death with a hammer, gets out then ambushes a bunch of firefighters responding to a fire he set.

That dude should have never been let out of prison. Actually he should've been executed.

Personally I don't think there should be such a thing as life in prison, Just execute the SOB's. We shouldn't be supporting, feeding and providing medical care for some cretin that can't live within the laws of society. Too damned expensive.

Well I take that back we can have life sentences but we should just make sure its a very short life.

Lets try this approach and see what happens to violent crimes.

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by 2bikemike

That whack job in Upstate New York who beat his Grandma to death with a hammer, gets out then ambushes a bunch of firefighters responding to a fire he set.

That dude should have never been let out of prison. Actually he should've been executed.

Personally I don't think there should be such a thing as life in prison, Just execute the SOB's. We shouldn't be supporting, feeding and providing medical care for some cretin that can't live within the laws of society. Too damned expensive.

Well I take that back we can have life sentences but we should just make sure its a very short life.

Lets try this approach and see what happens to violent crimes.

...or a hammer.

[go bowe]

Originally Posted by mlyonsd

We have better things to do with our money and eventually under my plan the number of violent criminals will shrink.

I'm not saying they don't. But the system in place allows them to game the system and innocent people get killed is the result.

amend the constitution and get 9 supremes nominated by bep...

otherwise, we got a ****ed up system and it's here to stay...

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by go bowe

amend the constitution and get 9 supremes nominated by bep...

otherwise, we got a ****ed up system and it's here to stay...

If I were in prison hanging out in the yard with the other murderers, and we were all telling our stories, I wouldn't want to be the guy that said, "I shot a 92 year old lady in the back at the Kwik E Mart to steal the cash register. But it was so heavy and unwieldy that I was apprehended by a bicycle cop." I'd want to be the guy that says, "I killed seven people with a machete and a golf club at a balloon factory in Arkansas. Then I removed their skins to fashion a makeshift virtual audience while I used the rest of the corpses to act out a complicated section of one of Gilbert and Sullivan's more popular numbers, which I continued until knocked unconscious by the SWAT team's third flash-bang. Money? **** no I didn't take any money. I did it because I have a passion for the performing arts." That, my friends, is some cred.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by jspchief

Doesn't the wild west suggest otherwise?

No, because that was Hollywood. The so called wild West wasn't as wild as we think.

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

No, because that was Hollywood. The so called wild West wasn't as wild as we think.

I don't imagine there are many stats to support or disprove that. But isn't that the time when "gun control" was conceived? Were sherriffs truly keeping people from carrying guns? And doesn't that fly in the face of the "armed society is a polite society" mantra?

Just seems to me that there are way too many irresponsible/stupid people in this world for me to start wishing they were all armed.

[AussieChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by mlyonsd

is execute anyone that commits a violent crime with one. That means holding up a convenience store, etc.

A society that embraces killing an innocent human conceived but not yet born should be able to do this, right? This of course won't stop a nut from killing kindergartners but nothing will do that.

And don't preach to me about being a civilized society because you're fighting a losing argument. If you're not intelligent enough to understand what the consequences of your actions are you're not civilized.

The answer is so simple it's scary.

Could work, but the thing is, the number of innocent people being wrongly executed would also severely increase.

[KChiefer]

Originally Posted by AussieChiefsFan

Could work, but the thing is, the number of innocent people being wrongly executed would also severely increase.

Seriously. I took my argument in the direction of people that actually did something wrong. There are scores of people in the US that have been exonerated after false convictions for actual murder. Granted, they've been given millions of dollars after the fact, so F them, KILL 'EM!

[Sorter]

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

No, because that was Hollywood. The so called wild West wasn't as wild as we think.

this

[KILLER_CLOWN]

hmmm........

Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Colombine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.

Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

Jarred Viktor, age 15, stabbed his grandmother 61 times after 5 days on Paxil.

Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded.

A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head.

Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet.

Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)

Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
(Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)

Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.

Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”

Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.

[Dayze]

serious question - why is it in the last decade there are so many commercials for all these durgs. I can remember specifically, watching a super bowl way back in like 99 when I was in the Navy and I saw about 3 of these commercials and wondered 'WTF is this"?

now, more than a decade later, you can't watch a set of commercials and not see one. That, and isn't there a disclaimer at the bottom of them that indicate they have not been evaluated by the FDA ? (...I can't remember).

[bobbymitch]

Hmmm......

How about a listing of how these children got a hold of said fire arms. Where they taken from mommy/daddy's nightstand, found on a closet shelf, had the combination for the gun safe??? jus' wunderin'. It would also seem to be pertenant information to the discussion.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN

hmmm........

Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Colombine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.

Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

Jarred Viktor, age 15, stabbed his grandmother 61 times after 5 days on Paxil.

Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded.

A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head.

Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet.

Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)

Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
(Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)

Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.

Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”

Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.

Do you have a source for that? Sounds interesting, but I'm wondering how the info was obtained.

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by Fish

Do you have a source for that? Sounds interesting, but I'm wondering how the info was obtained.

I've seen that info before, trying to find the website.

[listopencil]

It's worth pointing out that in some cases I think you can question causality. If a person is unbalanced enough that they could commit a horrible act like that, there is a decent chance that they have already been seen by a mental health care professional and are on drugs. With that being said I do not at all deny that these drugs very obviously and very dramatically affect a person's state of mind. This really bothered me:

Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet.

Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”

It's your child. You should know your child better than the doctor does. If you need help, therapy is available for you and your child so that you can understand each other and build a strong relationship. There is no magic bullet. There is no wonder pill. Do the ****ing work. Be a parent.