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Old 01-22-2013, 12:33 PM  
Tuckdaddy Tuckdaddy is offline
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Albert just called 610. Wants to stay in KC

Agent is talking to Dorsey. Does not want to play guard. Health is good. For what its worth.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:27 PM   #646
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
you can't defend the argument that you put on the table.

Can you Explain to me how replacing Albert with Joeckel improves the team more than a QB?

How does adding a 3rd pass rusher with Major health concerns improve the team more than a QB?

Are these players going to make the offense any better?

I can't figure out your reasoning.

You are aware of how bad our QB position is, right?
Good post and question.

We have a new regime. We don't know which players they value yet but, we do know their off season histories.

Andy Reid has traded in his first pick seven times in the last ten years. He has traded up five of those seven times to get the guy he wants. Unlike most coaches or GMs, Reid also trades players. That is pretty rare these days. For example, last year he traded for Demco Ryans and traded Asante Samuel away. The year before he traded Kolb for a CB and a draft pick even though he needed a QB. Hell, he even traded the player he grew up with (McNabb) to a divison rival. Reid doesn't give a shit. He will always go for the guy he wants no matter what. Also, if you aren't helping him, he is going to waste time with you. He isn't going to hang around and wait very long for guys to develop. If Reid doesn't absolutely love one of these QBs and really really want them, there is no way he will take one at #1.

Dorsey has talked about the Packer way over and over. He has been adament about sticking to his draft board and cited specific players he took when he did not have a need at their position. I think he's a pretty straight forward guy and has been pretty upfront about that. You can look for hidden meanings and conspiracy theories all you want but, I am taking his word for what it is.

Right now, Brandon Albert is almost dictating the draft. If he signs a deal, we probably won't draft a tackle number one but, we might. If he is franchised, there is a very real possibility we will take a tackle. I'm sure we would try to trade him and we probably wouldn't wait until next year to sign him. LTs aren't like WRs for example. He will have potential suitors unlike Bowe. LTs are hard to find. There are teams that need a LT who are not in a good postion to get one. There are two, maybe three guys in this draft that look like they could play LT. Take St. Louis for example. They have the #16 and #22 picks. If they offered that for a tagged Albert, we can't pass it up. We could take an OT at #1, a QB at #16, and LB, DE, NT or CB at #22. Note that per the new cba, trading a franchise players requires two first round picks in return. Say we keep Albert? We could still take a OT #1. This will be the last year of Winston's deal. Yeah, Stephenson played well but, does Reid think he's the answer? Reid values linemen on both sides of the ball above all else. He comes from the old school of thought that if you can't protect a QB then you don't have a QB. Furthermore, think about his experience in Philly last year. One could argue that a lack of o-line depth cost him his job.

Is our o-line good? I mean we know they can run block but, can they pass block? I know there are pff stats and all and they were ranked 7th but our passing game sucked. It wouldn't be "out there" to think that maybe our o-line was overrated. I trust Reid to watch the tape.

We don't know about Jarvis Jones medical history. I can tell you I am a Bulldogs fan and have watched every game he played in there. I don't remember him ever getting hurt and he literally plays as hard as Polamalu. He is hard on his body and intense as hell. What if he is fine? What if the physical goes great? Tamba Hali is going to be 30 years old this year and going into the downside of his career. If Reid likes Jones, I could see him trading tamba in a heartbeat. There are teams that would be interested and that could get us back into the first round to take a QB.

We are losing one, probably two DEs. We are going to need some DEs.

The point is that I am open minded and am expecting some "craziness" out of the new regime. I expect a vet to get traded this year. I am keeping an open mind and looking at everything. Getting back into the first will not be that hard. We have some talent that we can trade and we have the best pick in every round.

Make no mistake. I would prefer not to gamble on a QB falling to the second round and I plan on the Chiefs moving back into the first round. I see this as the most likely scenario. I think the new regime has prepping us for this scenario with several comments that were made about a 2-3 year window. If they can't get back into the first, they want us to be ready for it.

Last edited by Rambozo; 01-25-2013 at 03:36 PM..
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:40 PM   #647
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So you'd rather draft Joeckel and Glennon/Dysert than get Geno or Wilson?
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Alex Smith is awful.... there, I said it
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:40 PM   #648
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He's got us on ignore, no point in debating him.


Pretty sure he's trolling anyway. No one is that stupid.
It won't be long before he has the whole board on ignore.

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Old 01-25-2013, 03:42 PM   #649
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Originally Posted by Rambozo View Post
Also, it's not just about the talent level of QBs. It's about the talent level of all the other positions too and the general strength of this class.
What talent at other positions?

Luke Joeckel isn't elite. Star Lotulelei isn't elite. Jarvis Jones has medical issues.

It's obvious you're NOT considering the talent at other positions. Either that or you know nothing about football.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:46 PM   #650
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Originally Posted by Rambozo View Post
Right now, Brandon Albert is almost dictating the draft. If he signs a deal, we probably won't draft a tackle number one but, we might. If he is franchised, there is a very real possibility we will take a tackle.
It's quite possible this is the dumbest football-related post anyone here has ever made.

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Originally Posted by Rambozo View Post
Is our o-line good? I mean we know they can run block but, can they pass block? I know there are pff stats and all and they were ranked 7th but our passing game sucked. It wouldn't be "out there" to think that maybe our o-line was overrated. I trust Reid to watch the tape.
No, I take that back.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:49 PM   #651
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The offensive line was ranked 7th, but they were the problem for the offense sucking shit.


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Old 01-25-2013, 03:50 PM   #652
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We've had 2 drafts with the new CBA. But that's irrelevant. We can't base our strategy on any other year. Especially last year which featured the greatest rookie QB class in forever.

Most here aren't looking at Tannehill. He has nothing to do with this draft. All you're doing is making comparisons to other drafts, and using that to justify avoiding QB. But that's not how it works.

And I completely agree that it's not just about the talent level of the QBs. But in this draft, there aren't any other positions with standout players that could be seen as can't miss prospects.

So what we're left with is a class with no definitive standouts at any position. Since there's no standouts at any position, it lessens the allure of BPA, and puts focus on which player can best help the Chiefs' specific situation. If we look at the Chiefs, we see that they've heavily addressed the OLine over the last few drafts, and already have a well above average LT. What they don't have, is a single QB worth 2 shits.

Even though the QBs in this draft don't exhibit assurances as highly as last year's draft, it's still a guarantee that there will be one or more playoff caliber QBs from this class. Even though the risk is higher than last year with QB, the reward for getting it right completely dwarfs the reward for getting any other position right. While the risk of bust remains the same.
The first draft was per the old cba rules even though it occurred after the new agreement was reached.

There may not be a definative stand out like Luck last year or Clowney will be next year but, that's always the case when there isn't a sure thing QB going #1. It hasn't happened much lately. Mario Williams and Jake Long were the last two that weren't QBs.

There is a ton of talent at the top of this draft. Far more talent than there is at the QB position. I think most NFL people would disagree about your theory that taking a QB would not set you back 2-3 years. It absolutely would despite the new cba. It's not about losing the money. It's about losing the talent all around and you are going to continue picking early over and over never getting anywhere.


You guys should not even say the word superbowl. We just need to put together a solid team right now. Soon, maybe we can win a playoff game but, talking about the Superbowl is ridiculous. We have been in this position so many times over the last decade that I can't believe the homerism at times.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:51 PM   #653
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Originally Posted by Rambozo View Post

Is our o-line good? I mean we know they can run block but, can they pass block? I know there are pff stats and all and they were ranked 7th but our passing game sucked. It wouldn't be "out there" to think that maybe our o-line was overrated. I trust Reid to watch the tape.

Our pass game sucked because of THE QUARTERBACK
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:52 PM   #654
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Good post and question.

We have a new regime. We don't know which players they value yet but, we do know their off season histories.

Andy Reid has traded in his first pick seven times in the last ten years. He has traded up five of those seven times to get the guy he wants. Unlike most coaches or GMs, Reid also trades players. That is pretty rare these days. For example, last year he traded for Demco Ryans and traded Asante Samuel away. The year before he traded Kolb for a CB and a draft pick even though he needed a QB. Hell, he even traded the player he grew up with (McNabb) to a divison rival. Reid doesn't give a shit. He will always go for the guy he wants no matter what. Also, if you aren't helping him, he is going to waste time with you. He isn't going to hang around and wait very long for guys to develop. If Reid doesn't absolutely love one of these QBs and really really want them, there is no way he will take one at #1.

Dorsey has talked about the Packer way over and over. He has been adament about sticking to his draft board and cited specific players he took when he did not have a need at their position. I think he's a pretty straight forward guy and has been pretty upfront about that. You can look for hidden meanings and conspiracy theories all you want but, I am taking his word for what it is.

Right now, Brandon Albert is almost dictating the draft. If he signs a deal, we probably won't draft a tackle number one but, we might. If he is franchised, there is a very real possibility we will take a tackle. I'm sure we would try to trade him and we probably wouldn't wait until next year to sign him. LTs aren't like WRs for example. He will have potential suitors unlike Bowe. LTs are hard to find. There are teams that need a LT who are not in a good postion to get one. There are two, maybe three guys in this draft that look like they could play LT. Take St. Louis for example. They have the #16 and #22 picks. If they offered that for a tagged Albert, we can't pass it up. We could take an OT at #1, a QB at #16, and LB, DE, NT or CB at #22. Note that per the new cba, trading a franchise players requires two first round picks in return. Say we keep Albert? We could still take a OT #1. This will be the last year of Winston's deal. Yeah, Stephenson played well but, does Reid think he's the answer? Reid values linemen on both sides of the ball above all else. He comes from the old school of thought that if you can't protect a QB then you don't have a QB. Furthermore, think about his experience in Philly last year. One could argue that a lack of o-line depth cost him his job.

Is our o-line good? I mean we know they can run block but, can they pass block? I know there are pff stats and all and they were ranked 7th but our passing game sucked. It wouldn't be "out there" to think that maybe our o-line was overrated. I trust Reid to watch the tape.

We don't know about Jarvis Jones medical history. I can tell you I am a Bulldogs fan and have watched every game he played in there. I don't remember him ever getting hurt and he literally plays as hard as Polamalu. He is hard on his body and intense as hell. What if he is fine? What if the physical goes great? Tamba Hali is going to be 30 years old this year and going into the downside of his career. If Reid likes Jones, I could see him trading tamba in a heartbeat. There are teams that would be interested and that could get us back into the first round to take a QB.

We are losing one, probably two DEs. We are going to need some DEs.

The point is that I am open minded and am expecting some "craziness" out of the new regime. I expect a vet to get traded this year. I am keeping an open mind and looking at everything. Getting back into the first will not be that hard. We have some talent that we can trade and we have the best pick in every round.

Make no mistake. I would prefer not to gamble on a QB falling to the second round and I plan on the Chiefs moving back into the first round. I see this as the most likely scenario. I think the new regime has prepping us for this scenario with several comments that were made about a 2-3 year window. If they can't get back into the first, they want us to be ready for it.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:53 PM   #655
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Originally Posted by Rambozo View Post
The first draft was per the old cba rules even though it occurred after the new agreement was reached.

There may not be a definative stand out like Luck last year or Clowney will be next year but, that's always the case when there isn't a sure thing QB going #1. It hasn't happened much lately. Mario Williams and Jake Long were the last two that weren't QBs.

There is a ton of talent at the top of this draft. Far more talent than there is at the QB position. I think most NFL people would disagree about your theory that taking a QB would not set you back 2-3 years. It absolutely would despite the new cba. It's not about losing the money. It's about losing the talent all around and you are going to continue picking early over and over never getting anywhere.


You guys should not even say the word superbowl. We just need to put together a solid team right now. Soon, maybe we can win a playoff game but, talking about the Superbowl is ridiculous. We have been in this position so many times over the last decade that I can't believe the homerism at times.
There's no such thing as a sure-fire pick at the QB. You're a ****ing retard. You have no intelligence and have no idea what you are talking about. Do us all a favor - since your head is firmly up your own asshole, start eating shit instead of typing it on the message board.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:02 PM   #656
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There may not be a definative stand out like Luck last year or Clowney will be next year but, that's always the case when there isn't a sure thing QB going #1. It hasn't happened much lately. Mario Williams and Jake Long were the last two that weren't QBs.
How did it work out for the Dolphins to pass on the interception-prone Matt Ryan and take the "safe" Jake Long route?

"Safety" doesn't equal more wins, you ****ing moron. It means you're only prolonging the misery and woe.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:08 PM   #657
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Let's say you fall down a deep pit in the middle of nowhere and survive with no real injuries. It's been a couple days, you're dehydrated, hungry, and going nuts. You figure you can stay alive for another week by drinking ground water and your own urine.

Somebody miraculously comes across you. They have some rope, but it's kind of frayed in spots, and in your condition using the rope to get out of the pit is pretty risky. You could fall down and sustain some critical injuries. The person says they're lost as well, and therefore may not be able to find help in enough time.

What's the riskier option? Using the rope to GET OUT of the ****ing hole, or passing on the rope to drink groundwater and urine, waiting for days and prolonging your misery for who knows how long?
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I would read an entire blog of SNR breaking down athletes' musical capabilities like draft scouting reports.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:15 PM   #658
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:24 PM   #659
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Originally Posted by Rambozo View Post
The first draft was per the old cba rules even though it occurred after the new agreement was reached.

There may not be a definative stand out like Luck last year or Clowney will be next year but, that's always the case when there isn't a sure thing QB going #1. It hasn't happened much lately. Mario Williams and Jake Long were the last two that weren't QBs.

There is a ton of talent at the top of this draft. Far more talent than there is at the QB position. I think most NFL people would disagree about your theory that taking a QB would not set you back 2-3 years. It absolutely would despite the new cba. It's not about losing the money. It's about losing the talent all around and you are going to continue picking early over and over never getting anywhere.


You guys should not even say the word superbowl. We just need to put together a solid team right now. Soon, maybe we can win a playoff game but, talking about the Superbowl is ridiculous. We have been in this position so many times over the last decade that I can't believe the homerism at times.
Why would busting on a QB be worse than busting on a OL or LB with the first pick? The money isn't going to be any different.

And you're pointing out players taken 5 and 6 years ago to support your notion that non-QBs can be valuable at the top. Doesn't that show you something? Your best examples happened over 5 years ago.

And you can't sit here and say picking the wrong QB at #1 would set us back 2-3 years as opposed to picking another position, and then follow it up with "We have been in this position so many times over the last decade". Why have we been in this position? Because we haven't tried committing to a ****ing QB. Teams who don't have a franchise QB, and don't bother trying, end up in this position frequently. There's an obvious connection there. That's why it's so damn important to try when you have the opportunity. You get it right by taking a chance and using the top pick on the most important position. The position that provides the greatest opportunity for team improvement. Replacing tackles could make one position on the OLine better. Replacing a QB could make the entire offense better. We've seen evidence of this over and over the last few years.

Pussy footing around and hoping the perfect QB falls in your lap unexpectedly has proven much less effective than acquiring the best one in the draft. People have offered up clear evidence of this time and time again. The Chiefs are evidence enough of this. The best way to go from 2-14 to playoffs, is to improve QB play. That's not opinion.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:40 PM   #660
htismaqe htismaqe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
Why would busting on a QB be worse than busting on a OL or LB with the first pick? The money isn't going to be any different.

And you're pointing out players taken 5 and 6 years ago to support your notion that non-QBs can be valuable at the top. Doesn't that show you something? Your best examples happened over 5 years ago.

And you can't sit here and say picking the wrong QB at #1 would set us back 2-3 years as opposed to picking another position, and then follow it up with "We have been in this position so many times over the last decade". Why have we been in this position? Because we haven't tried committing to a ****ing QB. Teams who don't have a franchise QB, and don't bother trying, end up in this position frequently. There's an obvious connection there. That's why it's so damn important to try when you have the opportunity. You get it right by taking a chance and using the top pick on the most important position. The position that provides the greatest opportunity for team improvement. Replacing tackles could make one position on the OLine better. Replacing a QB could make the entire offense better. We've seen evidence of this over and over the last few years.

Pussy footing around and hoping the perfect QB falls in your lap unexpectedly has proven much less effective than acquiring the best one in the draft. People have offered up clear evidence of this time and time again. The Chiefs are evidence enough of this. The best way to go from 2-14 to playoffs, is to improve QB play. That's not opinion.
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