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Old 10-27-2012, 08:53 PM  
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Official 2012-2013 NBA Thread

Looks like James Harden has been To the Rockets for Jeremey Lamb, Kevin Martin and future picks. Plus... this is a general NBA thread.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:40 PM   #1261
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Originally Posted by KevB View Post
So because Kobe wants to take every single shot that's a plus?

My point was in relation to the LeBron being a better passer discussion; there was no judgment of whether that's better or worse than Kobe's desire to take over the game by scoring.
Mj wanted to take the game over scoring also. I really don't see what's the problem. Does he ball hog? Yes he does. Does he facilitate? Yes he does.

BTW...over their careers, Kobe averages less field goals attempted per game than LeBron or Jordan.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:41 PM   #1262
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Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla View Post
He had an insane game against the Spurs in the Finals, didn't he?
No, he was fairly controlled by the Spurs back in the '07 finals (although he still averaged something like 24, 7, 7). They're really the only team in his playoff career that's ever been able to significantly limit him, although that was 6 years ago.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:43 PM   #1263
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I think Kobe has taken too many shots the last few years. The last time they won the title Gasol and Bynum did a lot of damage. Last night he has 14 assists and they win. It will be interesting to see if that continues. Jacking up 30 shots every night isn't a good sign for any team. Kobe can hit more tough shots than anyone, but that doesn't mean you should constantly take them.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:47 PM   #1264
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Originally Posted by -King- View Post
Mj wanted to take the game over scoring also. I really don't see what's the problem. Does he ball hog? Yes he does. Does he facilitate? Yes he does.

BTW...over their careers, Kobe averages less field goals attempted per game than LeBron or Jordan.
I think that's because Phil Jackson knew how to reign Kobe. I don't think it's always been a problem as some insist. I think it's definitely been a problem under Brown and D'Antoni.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:48 PM   #1265
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Originally Posted by Peyton's Princess View Post
and to my non-surprise Kobe sits at #50
Kobe is a great player, but he just didn't/doesn't do anywhere near as much as LeBron does from game to game for his team. They are on different levels.

Also, to read about what goes into the win share calculation: http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html It's basically an attempt to put all of a player's offensive and defensive contributions into one number.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:51 PM   #1266
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Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
No, he was fairly controlled by the Spurs back in the '07 finals (although he still averaged something like 24, 7, 7). They're really the only team in his playoff career that's ever been able to significantly limit him, although that was 6 years ago.
The Spurs let Lebron do his thing and took everyone else from him. Pop is great at that. If the other team has someone like Durant, Kobe, Lebron he lets that one person have their game and shut down everyone else
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:53 PM   #1267
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Originally Posted by okcchief View Post
I think that's because Phil Jackson knew how to reign Kobe. I don't think it's always been a problem as some insist. I think it's definitely been a problem under Brown and D'Antoni.
Other than 2005-2006 where he had no choice but to take every single shot he could, his numbers have been consistent his whole career. He's taking she same number of shots now that he was taking under Phil.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:55 PM   #1268
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http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../hof_prob.html

This lists HOF probability among active players. Don't know if I buy that Vince Carter is likely to make it, but I'd like to see it. Nash seems too low on it considering his multiple MVPs and perceived team guy attitude/character.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:57 PM   #1269
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Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
Kobe is a great player, but he just didn't/doesn't do anywhere near as much as LeBron does from game to game for his team. They are on different levels.

Also, to read about what goes into the win share calculation: http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html It's basically an attempt to put all of a player's offensive and defensive contributions into one number.
well it's just funny that I've been griping for years and years and years about how I thought Kobe was ok in the playoffs and certainly wasn't a closer and then you post that and he's #50 on the list

but Jemele Hill on Page 2 about 5 years ago wrote an article saying Kobe was better than MJ

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...ge=hill/070326

one of the dumbest articles I ever stumbled upon in my life...I emailed her and said three words: "I hate you." and she emailed back and said "no you don't, you just THINK you do." which made me laugh
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:02 PM   #1270
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Originally Posted by -King- View Post
Other than 2005-2006 where he had no choice but to take every single shot he could, his numbers have been consistent his whole career. He's taking she same number of shots now that he was taking under Phil.
He's on pace for his third most attempts this year, but I guess it's more that he isn't taking the right kind of shots.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:04 PM   #1271
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Originally Posted by Peyton's Princess View Post
well it's just funny that I've been griping for years and years and years about how I thought Kobe was ok in the playoffs and certainly wasn't a closer and then you post that and he's #50 on the list
He's still 7th all time in playoff win shares, but he's obviously helped there by the sheer quantity of playoff games he's played: http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._career_p.html

The Win Shares/48 stat tells you what they're producing on a game-to-game basis for their teams. And that's where LeBron (and several other active players) clearly outclass him.

Quote:
but Jemele Hill on Page 2 about 5 years ago wrote an article saying Kobe was better than MJ

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...ge=hill/070326

one of the dumbest articles I ever stumbled upon in my life...I emailed her and said three words: "I hate you." and she emailed back and said "no you don't, you just THINK you do." which made me laugh
Yeah, it's ridiculous stuff like this that creates the Kobe mythology. This is why some have the crazy idea that he's on the same level as Jordan or even LeBron (although...wow, that article says not just on the same level but better than MJ ).

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Old 01-26-2013, 09:09 PM   #1272
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In 2007, the year of that article, Dirk was the MVP and he finished with nearly three more win shares than anyone else (LeBron was 2nd, Kobe/Duncan were 3rd). I'd say they got it right.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:10 PM   #1273
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People always think the new thing is better than the old thing. Same reason people thought this year's Olympic team would whip the Dream Team. By the same token, LeBron is a great passer, but he's not Magic Johnson, or even Larry Bird really yet you hear those comparisons.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:16 PM   #1274
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other than Milkman

anything new pales in comparison to anything old

Russell >>> Jordan
John Mackey >>>>>>>> Tony Gonzalez
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:28 PM   #1275
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People always think the new thing is better than the old thing. Same reason people thought this year's Olympic team would whip the Dream Team. By the same token, LeBron is a great passer, but he's not Magic Johnson, or even Larry Bird really yet you hear those comparisons.
The old thing isn't Kobe, though. It's Jordan. Kobe isn't on that level, never was and never will be.
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